Roland JX-08 and JD-08

[LPF83]

So it seems from the chatter on GS that these are "up to" 128-voice depending on patch (which I assume means that having 6-8 voices on any given patch would never be a problem).

My interest would be limited to the JX-08 for now, but I will be keeping an eye on this one.  Not a fan of the miniscule interface on their boutique offerings, but considering the membrane interface of the original JX-8P, I'm not sure that's the worst thing in the world. 

Whether or not I bite will be answered in time and based on what I hear from online demos/reviews.  Many of these tiny synths, for whatever reason, project a "budget signal path" sound that I can hear distinctly even on Youtube, and if it has that characteristic then I'll pass, regardless of all else.  If the overall sound is comparable to a System-8, then I may take the plunge on the JX-08.  Probably not on the JD-08... we'll see.

[LoboLives]

Personally I'd rather go for the digital sound of the JD-08 rather than another virtual analog from Roland.

[LPF83]

Personally I'd rather go for the digital sound of the JD-08 rather than another virtual analog from Roland.

I'd like to have the JD-800 sound in my arsenal too, but when it comes to digital synths with digital filters, plug-ins these days typically recreate well enough, and my understanding of the JD-800 is that its unique sound is mostly attributable to specific single cycle waveforms and the filter algorithms, both of which I'm guessing are captured well enough in their cloud plug-in (I have not yet tried it, since I have a few permanently owned Roland plugins but do not currently have an active cloud subscription.. they only released the JD-800 plugin a few days ago so hopefully I will get to check it out soon).

The bigger issue I have with the JD-08 is look at the control surface compared to the original JD-800.  Even if sound is accurately captured, I can't help but feel that a great deal is getting lost in the tiny form factor with less sliders.   Contrast that with the JX-08, where the control surface is actually adding something that the original didn't have.   With that being the case, for JD-800 sounds I tend to lean more toward a plug-in where I can just use Cubase quick controls to map the knobs of my MIDI controller instead of dealing with tiny sliders.

For the most part, the plug-ins I have that are sample based (PPG Wave, Korg Wavestation, Roland JV 1080, etc.) have satisfied my need to not own the hardware, so I will keep an open mind with regard to JD-08 but as of right now it's not high on my want list.

[maxter]

Wow... yet again, Roland misses the mark quite a bit. (imho)

This module could've been a nice expander to the "OG" JD-800, like a voice expansion of 128 voices, and neat to bring to live gigs, if it could work as a stand-in... and IF it could be programmed externally from the JD-800, receive patch dumps by sysex etc. But as it doesn't receive sysex commands, well... I wouldn't even bother to program it with those tiny sliders.

128 voices polyphony... well, that's great, but... for what? 2 parts multitimbrality? 

Had it been 5+1 parts, like the OG, 128 voices would've been a big +, but 5-6 parts sharing 24 voices is worth more than a 2-part 128 voice imo, at least when it comes to the JD. On the OG, you can also para-EQ each part separately, which makes it super versatile.

The aftertouch control sliders have been OMITTED!  No aftertouch vibrato, or VCA and VCF expressions... AND on top of that,  as some already know, the Cutoff slider even on the OG is EXTREMELY steppy, as it covers pretty much the audible spectrum on 100 steps... even 1 step is quite audible, especially with resonance up... and JD-08 sliders are like 1/5th the size of the OG... THE WORKAROUND for the filter stepping of the OG, was to use an Exp-Pedal set to AT in the menu, or a potentiometer to the Exp-Pedal jack, or using an external MIDI controller to send it aftertouch. That way you could scale defined modulation-ranges of filter/amp/lfo-pitch each separately to the AT, and control it with a knob, slider or pedal (or key-AT of course). Making for SMOOTH manual filter finetuning and sweeps live, getting rid of that horrible stepping...

The worst part of it (without the workaround) was when having changed patch, and you want to tweak the Cutoff a little bit from, let's say, 20 to 22, but the slider is currently at 98... so you grab it and: !F*j!!QkS*FSKAAAAOOOOOUUUUWW!  Nice...

I don't know what else they messed up, but I see no need to dive any deeper... Goodbye Roland!

And oh yeah, one of THE biggest pros of the OG JD-800 imo, is the UI, that's where the magic is... a major part to its popularity I'm sure. So, JD-08... 

[LPF83]

Wow... yet again, Roland misses the mark quite a bit. (imho)

This module could've been a nice expander to the "OG" JD-800, like a voice expansion of 128 voices, and neat to bring to live gigs, if it could work as a stand-in... and IF it could be programmed externally from the JD-800, receive patch dumps by sysex etc. But as it doesn't receive sysex commands, well... I wouldn't even bother to program it with those tiny sliders.

128 voices polyphony... well, that's great, but... for what? 2 parts multitimbrality? 

Had it been 5+1 parts, like the OG, 128 voices would've been a big +, but 5-6 parts sharing 24 voices is worth more than a 2-part 128 voice imo, at least when it comes to the JD. On the OG, you can also para-EQ each part separately, which makes it super versatile.

The aftertouch control sliders have been OMITTED!  No aftertouch vibrato, or VCA and VCF expressions... AND on top of that,  as some already know, the Cutoff slider even on the OG is EXTREMELY steppy, as it covers pretty much the audible spectrum on 100 steps... even 1 step is quite audible, especially with resonance up... and JD-08 sliders are like 1/5th the size of the OG... THE WORKAROUND for the filter stepping of the OG, was to use an Exp-Pedal set to AT in the menu, or a potentiometer to the Exp-Pedal jack, or using an external MIDI controller to send it aftertouch. That way you could scale defined modulation-ranges of filter/amp/lfo-pitch each separately to the AT, and control it with a knob, slider or pedal (or key-AT of course). Making for SMOOTH manual filter finetuning and sweeps live, getting rid of that horrible stepping...

The worst part of it (without the workaround) was when having changed patch, and you want to tweak the Cutoff a little bit from, let's say, 20 to 22, but the slider is currently at 98... so you grab it and: !F*j!!QkS*FSKAAAAOOOOOUUUUWW!  Nice...

I don't know what else they messed up, but I see no need to dive any deeper... Goodbye Roland!

And oh yeah, one of THE biggest pros of the OG JD-800 imo, is the UI, that's where the magic is... a major part to its popularity I'm sure. So, JD-08... 

I agree that Roland lost its way, and seems to have a hard time getting back.  About "up to" 128 voices, on VA synths I consider that more of a theoretical number than what we equate a voice to on an analog synth.  An example of this are the Virus TI2 and Snow... other choices made during patch design increase the overall complexity of the patch (not just FX but envelope settings etc), reducing the number of total number of voices available very rapidly.  Then there is the inherent thinness of digital oscillators and the fact it takes more of them in order to produce sounds that require any level of harmonic richness.   So at the end of the day, I found that I could get maybe two "huge" sounding patches out of a TI2 at a time and maybe only one out of a TI Snow, when the TI2 was rated at 110 voices and the Snow at 50 voices.

Basically of these two product offerings, it seems there is more interest overall in having the JD800 sound -- and to that I might predict that there will be more widespread product disappointment around the JD-08 (mainly because of exactly what you pointed out about the interface..  the lack of sliders, the miniscule travel on the ones that are there, etc.).

But, for those interested in the JX8P sound, what about the JX-08?  Tiny sliders (when the original only had membrane buttons) are actually kind of a bonus, so if it does in fact faithfully capture the sound of the JX8P, and does so at only $400 in a space saving design, then on paper it starts to catch my interest a bit. 

[LPF83]

Update:  The comments at the following link indicate Roland responded to a question indicating there is no unison detune on the JX-08.



If true, it means they didn't even make a valid attempt to faithfully reproduce the JX-8P.

[maxter]

Yeah, I saw that one...

It seems Roland has completely dropped the ball now... Same with the JD-08, not a proper attempt even.

I remember Roland excusing themselves for not bringing back the old-school synths, with something like "We're not gonna look back, but will only move forward." Btw, please note, that's not a direct quote.

Kind of makes you wonder... with all these poor attempts of "recreating" said old-school synths that customers have been demanding... if you're gonna do something, do it properly. Or at least, ATTEMPT to...

If this is "forward", then I think Roland should consider just about any other direction at this time. And for some extra salt sprinkling on top: Behringer obviously does a MUCH better job at (more or less) faithfully recreating old Roland gear. I'd be hoping for a JD-800 slimmed to a rack-module the size of B2600, but perhaps the new patents for the JD-08 renders that impossible (or illegal rather)?

[LPF83]

Kind of makes you wonder... with all these poor attempts of "recreating" said old-school synths that customers have been demanding... if you're gonna do something, do it properly. Or at least, ATTEMPT to...

Dave Smith said something in his recent YT vid series that made a lot of sense to me; paraphrasing, he basically said that designing synths with very specific target sound is difficult, and that most of his products are pretty much a matter of trying different things and then landing on what sounds good.  He also said the Prophet 5/10 reissue sounds like the original because it uses the same basic parts, so he shunned any personal credit for any magic that happened in reproducing the original.

Translating that to Roland, unless I'm mistaken, their vintage masterpieces were mostly created from components no longer made (and of course, the Prophet 5/10 probably would have never become a reality if someone else had not decided to spin up remanufacturing of the required oscillators and filters).  Maybe Roland figures that unless the original parts are available, they have a better shot at reproducing everything in software.  I definitely miss the old Roland.

[LPF83]

Looks like the JX-08 is definitely a hard pass.  But, I will keep an eye out for Espen's grandma on eBay.