Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...

[Paul Dither]

I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument.  But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet.  I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.

Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I always run my Evolver Desktop, which is used for bass, in stereo.  When experimenting with the signal, I always find that bass in mono sounds artificially hollow.  it stands out like a sore thumb. 

[Paul Dither]

I always run my Evolver Desktop, which is used for bass, in stereo.  When experimenting with the signal, I always find that bass in mono sounds artificially hollow.  it stands out like a sore thumb.

Like I said, I was not trying to argue about a right or wrong way to do it. It's a matter of style and genre in the end. As a bassist, I think of Dub, Motown, and Funk as the pinnacles of music.

[Shaw]

I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument.  But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet.  I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.

Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.

Yeah... You gotta be careful with Stereo bass for sure.  But when I biamp my bass, one pickup (the neck) will be EQed to the low end with highs rolled off, and the other pickup (bridge pickup) will have the lows rolled off with effects added (chorus or flanger, maybe some delay).  The two mono signals are then run almost straight up the middle -- one maybe panned a bit left and the other a bit right.   OR send the neck pickup straight down the middle, with the bridge pickup about at about 10 o'clock with the delay (from the bridge pickup) panned at around 2 o'clock. 


Stereo synth bass (ŕ la Razmo) could be done without being muddy since you essentially (presumably) have the exact same part being played by nearly the exact same patch (destined a bit?) with nearly the exact same timing --- this could sound really nice without being muddy (depending of course on style of music and other instrumentation).

[Razmo]

The reason for wanting analog bass in stereo is because it simply sounds better, when it's two different oscillators taking each side... I believe AO also talked about this earlier... putting an analog chorus on it simply is not the same... I want a very wide stereo perspective, and it's well done this way, without strange cancellations in the frequency spectrum, and as I'm into Ambient these days, mono simply sounds boring... especialy in headphones which will be my major focus.

I get your reasoning, but I guess being also a bassist I usually perceive it as a concentrated solo/monophonic voice.

About V-Synth... yes... I had it before, and regret selling it... I also had the keyboard G2, but it's not multi timbral, which is crucial to me... the XT is the only one that has sort of a multi mode. I actualy bought the VP-9000 for this, but the aliasing is horrendous on this machine, compared to the XT... and it has too few voices really... so... I¨ll have to get one again at some point, because I want the VariPhrase technology.

Wow, it must have escaped me that you got rid of it. Must have happened really quick right after you got it. The G2 must have been quite hard to come by. Those are hard to get these days.

The ever ongoing GAS syndrome... yes... I can understand why people would say that it's a never ending story... it has been until now, but I'm pretty determined this time to get to at final setup... (as I've said all the other times as well)... guess we'll just have to wait and see

You should never enter the Eurorack market. 

I get that bass is usualy best controlled in mono, but that neewd not necessarily be so... Evolvers is an example of this, and also the basses I've made for both P12 and P08 proves it, but it may be down to the musical genre as well... most ambient music does not have rhythmic parts, so there the bass has "free reign" not interfering with other bass stuff like kick drums etc... anyway, the Minitaur allow you to reset the phase of the oscillators at key-on, so it should be possible to make it "mono", by doing so.

About the G2... yes it went out quite quick. It took up too much space on my desktop, and as stated, it has no multi mode. and about modular market?... YES! ... not gonna happen

[Razmo]

The reason for wanting analog bass in stereo is because it simply sounds better, when it's two different oscillators taking each side... I believe AO also talked about this earlier... putting an analog chorus on it simply is not the same... I want a very wide stereo perspective, and it's well done this way, without strange cancellations in the frequency spectrum, and as I'm into Ambient these days, mono simply sounds boring... especialy in headphones which will be my major focus.

I get your reasoning, but I guess being also a bassist I usually perceive it as a concentrated solo/monophonic voice.

I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument.  But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet.  I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick. 


Thanks for the idear....

Also, all you'd need to do is connect one of the Minitaurs to the other via MIDI Thru to MIDI In (I hope it has a Thru port... can't remember). Using that method, all MIDI data sent to the first one, will be retransmitted to the second one... if they are set to the same channel then, both should react the same, even if the first one is tweaked from the front panel... as long as the presets are the same.

[Razmo]

I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument.  But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet.  I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.

Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.

I understand your reasoning on this, but Ambient is a bit different... you simply cannot get enough stereo tracks because it widens the perspective feeling when wearing headphones. Of course all should not be smeared in chorus and stereo widening, but for some tracks a stereo bass might be just what you need, especially if it's the only bass frequency source in the mix... I intend on using it for boomy basslines in Berlin School style.

Now I know that the deepest frequencies cannot be picked up by the human ear, as being directional... so of course the ideal thing would be that those frequencies would be in mono to avoid that each speaker will cancel out on each others bass frequencies... the optimal solution would be that low and high frequencies could be handled individualy, so that the higher frequencies of the bass is the only ones being separated, but that's not really possible with the Minitaur.

Also... I don't care about the cancellations because I'm aiming at headphone music here, and with those on, no cancellations will happen, as the sound of one side will have absolutely no effect on the other.

[Razmo]

I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument.  But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet.  I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.

Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.

Yeah... You gotta be careful with Stereo bass for sure.  But when I biamp my bass, one pickup (the neck) will be EQed to the low end with highs rolled off, and the other pickup (bridge pickup) will have the lows rolled off with effects added (chorus or flanger, maybe some delay).  The two mono signals are then run almost straight up the middle -- one maybe panned a bit left and the other a bit right.   OR send the neck pickup straight down the middle, with the bridge pickup about at about 10 o'clock with the delay (from the bridge pickup) panned at around 2 o'clock. 


Stereo synth bass (ŕ la Razmo) could be done without being muddy since you essentially (presumably) have the exact same part being played by nearly the exact same patch (destined a bit?) with nearly the exact same timing --- this could sound really nice without being muddy (depending of course on style of music and other instrumentation).

That is exactly the point... with this technique you get an absolutely stunningly wide stereo effect that has no beating from a chorus because the copy of the original cancel out frequencies (beating)... there is nothing to cancel out, as both sides are completely stand-alone... it gives a stereo perspective totally free of any motion.

On top of this I'm thinking about another advantage as well... getting two minifooger pedals of the same type going on both sides, would make a lot of fun as well, making the end result even more thickening. Also making tiny adjustment of difference between left and right sides will further add to the possibilities... like detuning, plus you get an option not often associated with mono MOOGs, panning options by doing variations on amplitude etc.

Also... the Minitaur also does some lead sounds that could be very useful in stereo.

Of course it's a bit expensive to get two of these, compared to how limited they are, but I really only need it for bass, and I like the small size of it, compared to having two Sub37's

[BobTheDog]

About the G2... yes it went out quite quick. It took up too much space on my desktop, and as stated, it has no multi mode. and about modular market?... YES! ... not gonna happen

Hi Razmo,

The G2 does have multi mode it has 4 slots, so it is 4 channel multitimbral.

Cheers

Andy

[Razmo]

About the G2... yes it went out quite quick. It took up too much space on my desktop, and as stated, it has no multi mode. and about modular market?... YES! ... not gonna happen

Hi Razmo,

The G2 does have multi mode it has 4 slots, so it is 4 channel multitimbral.

Cheers

Andy

OK? ... well I never seemed to notice this while I had it... anyway, it takes up too much space, compared to the XT, and I need to be saving space, as I'm moving in about 14 days, into a flat where I won't be having as much space as I do now

Besides... the only advantage of the G2 would be the added polyphony really... I dont need the AP synthesis anymore, as this is basically SuperNatrural technology in it's early stages, and my Integra-7 beats it hands down in that department.

What I want is the VariPhrase technology, in a quality better than the VP-9000, and with the added ability of having the D50 emulation, as there are so many cool free patches for the D50/550 that appeal to Ambient music quite a lot... this is not present in the G2 by the way...

[BobTheDog]

Actually maybe I am getting mixed up with the G2, I was talking about the Nord G2!

[dslsynth]

And to DSLSynth: It's allready put on sale for 6.000,- DKR ... and it will definitely not get any cheaper than that considdering a new 1voice Evolver cost about 5.000,- DKR

If I had the money for your PER I would surely have bought it right away (assuming good condition and a non-smoker studio). Unfortunately I am not in a position to pay that amount of money for gear so it will have to go. Sad to see you leave the Evolver camp though.

[Shaw]

That is exactly the point... with this technique you get an absolutely stunningly wide stereo effect that has no beating from a chorus because the copy of the original cancel out frequencies (beating)... there is nothing to cancel out, as both sides are completely stand-alone... it gives a stereo perspective totally free of any motion.

On top of this I'm thinking about another advantage as well... getting two minifooger pedals of the same type going on both sides, would make a lot of fun as well, making the end result even more thickening. Also making tiny adjustment of difference between left and right sides will further add to the possibilities... like detuning, plus you get an option not often associated with mono MOOGs, panning options by doing variations on amplitude etc.

Also... the Minitaur also does some lead sounds that could be very useful in stereo.

Of course it's a bit expensive to get two of these, compared to how limited they are, but I really only need it for bass, and I like the small size of it, compared to having two Sub37's

Yes, you could also do the same thing with 2 Minitaurs that I do with 2 bass pickups... Have 1 Minitaurs tuned lower, have the other tuned higher (maybe even use a HPF to remove the lows) and run the higher one through moogerfoogers for nice effected bass sounds that aren't muddy.


... And not only are the Minitaurs smaller than the Sub37, lots of folks think they sound better.  Not trying to get the MOOG people riled up... The Sub37 has wonderful modulation capabilities. But forums are full of people who agree that the Voyager / Phatty / Minitaurs oscillators sound better than those in the Sub37.     Especially for bass.


Cheers!

[Razmo]

And to DSLSynth: It's allready put on sale for 6.000,- DKR ... and it will definitely not get any cheaper than that considdering a new 1voice Evolver cost about 5.000,- DKR

If I had the money for your PER I would surely have bought it right away (assuming good condition and a non-smoker studio). Unfortunately I am not in a position to pay that amount of money for gear so it will have to go. Sad to see you leave the Evolver camp though.

Well... it's not without tears, that I let the P08 and Evolver go... but I need to think carefully what machines I've got in my setup, as I decided to only have 8, and there are other machines out there, which is much more versatile than the Poly Evolver, and the P12 which I will no doubt keep cover much of it's territory and more.

[Razmo]

That is exactly the point... with this technique you get an absolutely stunningly wide stereo effect that has no beating from a chorus because the copy of the original cancel out frequencies (beating)... there is nothing to cancel out, as both sides are completely stand-alone... it gives a stereo perspective totally free of any motion.

On top of this I'm thinking about another advantage as well... getting two minifooger pedals of the same type going on both sides, would make a lot of fun as well, making the end result even more thickening. Also making tiny adjustment of difference between left and right sides will further add to the possibilities... like detuning, plus you get an option not often associated with mono MOOGs, panning options by doing variations on amplitude etc.

Also... the Minitaur also does some lead sounds that could be very useful in stereo.

Of course it's a bit expensive to get two of these, compared to how limited they are, but I really only need it for bass, and I like the small size of it, compared to having two Sub37's

Yes, you could also do the same thing with 2 Minitaurs that I do with 2 bass pickups... Have 1 Minitaurs tuned lower, have the other tuned higher (maybe even use a HPF to remove the lows) and run the higher one through moogerfoogers for nice effected bass sounds that aren't muddy.


... And not only are the Minitaurs smaller than the Sub37, lots of folks think they sound better.  Not trying to get the MOOG people riled up... The Sub37 has wonderful modulation capabilities. But forums are full of people who agree that the Voyager / Phatty / Minitaurs oscillators sound better than those in the Sub37.     Especially for bass.


Cheers!

Well, I had the Minitaur earlier on... I just recently sold my Sub37... Personally I think the Sub37 sounds just as good, and has many more options than a Minitaur... I also had the Slim Phatty, which sounded fatter in some way, but have other quirks.... it's a matter of taste I suppose, but if you lack a lot of space, and want two without breaking the bank, the Minitaur is the thing to get for this

[Shaw]

.... it's a matter of taste I suppose, but if you lack a lot of space, and want two without breaking the bank, the Minitaur is the thing to get for this

No doubt.

[Razmo]

Yeah, it's been a while since I wrote anything here... My studio is still going thru a major transformation into one made for creating ambient music... A lot of my analogs have been sold... Sub37 is gone, Prophet '08 is going shortly, PER has been gone for some weeks now... actualy I do not have one single synth with an analog oscillator anymore... I have kept the P12 because it's unique and I won't let that one go, but it's the only tie to DSI I have at the moment... at least until Dave decides to do a sampler synth with analog filters (if).

I do want a true analog polyphonic synth at some point, but I want one that is a lot more programable than the P6 and OB-6, and also something cheaper, as I find those too expensive for what they offer me. I bet that the one I'll get is the new Behringer... it has enough voices, it has FX build in which is CRUCIAL for my work these days, and it's deep in the engine flexibility.

I'm trading my P08 next week for a used Yamaha FS1R and some cash... I lack a fullblown and capable FM synth in my arsenal, and I do not have the patience to wait for Yamaha to throw the Montage into a 1U rack... FS1R is by all means, the most powerful FM synth in hardware... I had it before, and it will serve me well for ambient music.

I still have the Roland VP-9000... and I have actually come to like it's sound... I love the VariPhrase synthesis, which allow me to make lots of organic sounding instruments, FX, vocal phrases etc... but I still want to swap it for a full blown V-Synth XT some day... that will be my next move.

I also like the Nord Modular G1 that I've got... but I want to swap this with a G2 engine some day, simply to get the added option of using build in FX... so I hope to find one of these someday as well.

So currently my future setup would be:

Roland INTEGRA-7:
Mainly for it's SuperNatural synthesis. It's goig to be my go-to synth for orchestral and accoustic sounds, but can do practically anything so it'll be used for pads as well. This modulae sounds REALLY good.

Roland V-Synth XT: Chosen for the VariPhrase synthesis that will allow me to do a lot of different stuff... the best feature is it's ability to change pitch, timr and formant seperately in realtime, as this allow me to use solo voice samples, and create new melodies that sound extremely realistic... but it can also totaly morph and bend any sample, and do a lot of cool pads, as well as mangling drumloops etc... a truly amazing synth with lots of ambient potential.

Waldorf Blofeld:
Taken mainly for it's ability to create user-wavetables, but also it's very deep VA synthesis engine to go with it. It sounds fabulous once you start doing your own sounds, and the ability to use wavetables and samples in it's engine gives some rather unique possibilities that you find in almost no other synth in hardware... the one I know come closest is the Nord Wave.

DSI Prophet 12:
You all know this one... I'm keeping it for two resons, first reason being the really cool semi-modular approach and the second being the analog VCF/VCA. This concept sets it appart from any other synth I know, and it has vast potential. The only grief I have is, that it foes not have the FX sections of the newer P6/OB-6 ... I miss a good reverb on this, but outboard will have to do.

Clavia Nord Modular G2:
Obviously for the modular concept, which gives you endless possibilities, if you're willing to "dive in". It will be used for anything, but also as external processor for other sound sources to go thru.

Yamaha FS1R:
For the FM synthesis and the Formant Shaping synthesis. It's a hard machine to program, but it's loaded with stuff no other synth can do that will be perfect for ambient music. These machines has risen in price recently to unbelivable heights.

Behringer DeepMind12:
Chosen to get those analog oscillators in combi with build in FX and a deep modulation engine... looking forward to more info in this synth, and hope it will get a rack version as well... otherwise I will not get one.

That's it for now... I still have two slots left for something unique in the future... what that'll be I'll just have to wait and see

Ohh... and here is a short demo of what can be done with the VariPhrase technology... I sampled Aragorn directly from youtube, singing "Tinuviel" and created another melodyline from it... the other sounds are from Integra-7 and Blofeld.

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Tinuviel.mp3

It's nothing special... just a small test I did to see where I could go with the VariPhrase technology.

[Soundquest]

Razmo,     What is this vari-phase you mention- a feature on one of these synths?

[Shaw]

Razmo,     What is this vari-phase you mention- a feature on one of these synths?

Uh-oh... Someone is about to be lighter in the wallet.

[Razmo]

Razmo,     What is this vari-phase you mention- a feature on one of these synths?

VariPhrase is Rolands teknology to control time, pitch and formants independently on samples... that is the short version. You can find it in the VP-9000 and the whole V-Synth line of synthesizers from Roland.

Basically, it allows you to change the pitch, without also changing the time of a sample (timestretching), and the formants (transposed samples of voices do not sound like chipmunks when played higher, or monsters played low).