Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...

[proteus-ix]

Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
 

"One after one, by the star-dogged moon,
Too quick for groan or sigh,
Each turned his face with ghastly pang,
And cursed me with his eye."     

[Shaw]

Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
 

"One after one, by the star-dogged moon,
Too quick for groan or sigh,
Each turned his face with ghastly pang,
And cursed me with his eye."     

I was thinking the old Viking Sagas of Iceland, but the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner works.

[Razmo]

Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.

The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.

I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.

On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.

There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.

So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...

After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...

[Paul Dither]

Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.

The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.

I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.

On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.

There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.

So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...

After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...

As for analog and samples I'd give the PX a good listen. It may make the Rev2 redundant.

[Shaw]

... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...

50 bucks says that statement turns out to not be true...
 

[Razmo]

Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.

The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.

I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.

On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.

There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.

So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...

After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...

As for analog and samples I'd give the PX a good listen. It may make the Rev2 redundant.

The PX is basically a P12 in my opinion, all oscillators are digital meaning it will not (in my world) make the REV2 redundant, especially at high frequencies and audio rate modulation it will probably sound more digital as the P12... but as I have not listened carefully to the PX yet, I cannot say if you're right or wrong in your statement... If it does make it redundant, that's fine... I'm just not that certain it will.... and when I have the funds for a PX, I'll have made so much material with the REV2, that I would probably not part with it for that sole reason... one thing I need to do is stick with three synths, and really get to know and love them... constantly changing for something "better and newer" will just end in the same old curse I've been under for the last 25+ years... just as I'm beginning to know them, I sell them and get something new and have to start all over again getting to know another synth... So I'm pretty sure I'll stick with the REV2, PEAK and probably PX for the rest of my life... I hope... (you may laugh, but I'm sticking my fingers into my ears! )

[Paul Dither]

The PX is basically a P12 in my opinion, all oscillators are digital meaning it will not (in my world) make the REV2 redundant, especially at high frequencies and audio rate modulation it will probably sound more digital as the P12... but as I have not listened carefully to the PX yet, I cannot say if you're right or wrong in your statement... If it does make it redundant, that's fine... I'm just not that certain it will.... and when I have the funds for a PX, I'll have made so much material with the REV2, that I would probably not part with it for that sole reason... one thing I need to do is stick with three synths, and really get to know and love them... constantly changing for something "better and newer" will just end in the same old curse I've been under for the last 25+ years... just as I'm beginning to know them, I sell them and get something new and have to start all over again getting to know another synth... So I'm pretty sure I'll stick with the REV2, PEAK and probably PX for the rest of my life... I hope... (you may laugh, but I'm sticking my fingers into my ears! )

I was just thinking that if you only used the analog waveforms on the PX, then what you'd get would be very close to the Rev2, minus the suboscillator. But of course the filters sound very different.

The PX is not really a P12. Different filters, different oscillator constellation (2x samples + 2x analog waveshapes vs. 4x analog+digital waveshapes that allow for 4OP FM on the P12), different features beyond the oscillator-filter-VCA path (there's no filter feedback, no 4 freely configurable delays, no analog stereo distortion, no pressure sensitive touch sliders, and only 2/5 of the character section on the PX).

[Razmo]

The PX is basically a P12 in my opinion, all oscillators are digital meaning it will not (in my world) make the REV2 redundant, especially at high frequencies and audio rate modulation it will probably sound more digital as the P12... but as I have not listened carefully to the PX yet, I cannot say if you're right or wrong in your statement... If it does make it redundant, that's fine... I'm just not that certain it will.... and when I have the funds for a PX, I'll have made so much material with the REV2, that I would probably not part with it for that sole reason... one thing I need to do is stick with three synths, and really get to know and love them... constantly changing for something "better and newer" will just end in the same old curse I've been under for the last 25+ years... just as I'm beginning to know them, I sell them and get something new and have to start all over again getting to know another synth... So I'm pretty sure I'll stick with the REV2, PEAK and probably PX for the rest of my life... I hope... (you may laugh, but I'm sticking my fingers into my ears! )

I was just thinking that if you only used the analog waveforms on the PX, then what you'd get would be very close to the Rev2, minus the suboscillator. But of course the filters sound very different.

The PX is not really a P12. Different filters, different oscillator constellation (2x samples + 2x analog waveshapes vs. 4x analog+digital waveshapes that allow for 4OP FM on the P12), different features beyond the oscillator-filter-VCA path (there's no filter feedback, no 4 freely configurable delays, no analog stereo distortion, no pressure sensitive touch sliders, and only 2/5 of the character section on the PX).

No, they are not the same... I did not intent to give that impression, but the two digital oscillators are sort of a "crippled" two P12 oscillators, and the modulation matrix is also audio rate modulateable, so I definitely see the similarities, and the stuff that was taken from the P12... but it will in no means compete with the P12 in sheer synthesis possibilities, I'm fully aware of that... if it did, I would not have even thought about getting both P12 and PX ... but with DSI synths it's like overlapping cirkles... all have something in common with each other but never completely covering each other in any way.

[BobTheDog]

As a side Issue Razmo, how do you sell your gear, via Ebay or some other means?

I have loads of stuff I want to get rid of but am not very good at selling it!

[Razmo]

As a side Issue Razmo, how do you sell your gear, via Ebay or some other means?

I have loads of stuff I want to get rid of but am not very good at selling it!

I'm selling it in two places where I live (Denmark)... one is a musicians forum, the other a site for used stuff... it's about the only places to sell stuff here in Denmark... I usually sell stuff at about 25% off the new-price if it's still in production, and about 33% off if not... but it depends upon how valuable the devices are... I've been selling for more than 20 years so I'm pretty well accustomed to the used marked... but even then, if you keep selling stuff and buying, in the end, you loose money... more than you'd want to think about... which is also why my GAS and selling-frenzy has to stop... I've lost waaaaay too much money over the years... got a lot of knowledge from owning more than 100 different synths during that time, but other than that...

[BobTheDog]

Thanks for the info, I need to find somewhere that isn't Ebay I think.

p.s. Where about in Denmark are you? I did work on and off for DR in Copenhagen for many years, nice place.

[Paul Dither]

Thanks for the info, I need to find somewhere that isn't Ebay I think.

There's Reverb now in the UK and Europe as well. And I would look out for the digital version of what used to be the classified ads section in pre-internet times. Most of those former local ad platforms have a digital equivalent these days.

[Razmo]

Thanks for the info, I need to find somewhere that isn't Ebay I think.

p.s. Where about in Denmark are you? I did work on and off for DR in Copenhagen for many years, nice place.

About 60km from copenhagen... but I'm often in Copenhagen since my girlfriend lives there ...DR are our national television station, I know that quite well.

[Razmo]

Yeah yeah... you knew it would eventualy pop up, so here it is: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread 

There seems to be lacking a forum cattegory in here, where members can post links to music made with DSI gear (and other hardware), like on the "old" forum... so until that has been done (if), this thread will also serve as an outlet for my (un)musical experimentations 

I'm currently making a bit of a change in my studio setup because I started doing audio layer recording, instead of live MIDI recording as I've always been doing... I've also started making Ambient music which makes me realize the value of digital synths with loads of FX built in... thus some synths will be leaving my setup, and others take their place in the future... but rest assured... it's NOT any DSI synths that is leaving the building here, not even Tempest 

Actualy the Tempest is much more valuable now that I'm recording in audio layers, as I can just record whatever I come up with, without having to think about saving stuff... it makes Tempest very flexible for my usage... I recently added the capability to store whole Beats to my SoundDiver editor which is really nice, because I can browse whole beats by the flick of a key in SoundDiver... much more intuitive than dumping single Sounds all the time... unfortunately, the SysEx format does not allow me to make edits to a Beat in SoundDiver, but that's not essential... I create sounds using my Sounds editor, then dump them one at a time to a Beat on Tempest, and when a kit is done, I just dump it back to SoundDiver from Tempest to save it in my library of Beats.

Here is a little joint adventure (short one) by Tempest and EX5... more Ambient, as this is my genre for the future:

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/The_Dragon_and_the_Demon.mp3

Currently I'm trying to sell my Waldorf Microwave (yes the one with analog filters)... I'm trying to get away from old synths, and this one is beginning to annoy me with all of it's quirks... not using it much either, and because it's so circumstancial to get wavetables and waveshapes in and out of this thing... it just has to go.

In the meantime I'm going to save up for a rack version of the Modulus 002 and Hypersynth Xenophone... probably also a Yamaha Reface DX, as I don't have any FM synthesis (real FM synthesis that is). Other than that I don't need much more than something to play samples, but I'll wait until some modern company makes a new hybrid sampler with analog VCF/VCA's (DSI!?) ... I'd like to see Dave's new interpretation af the Wavestation, but with added user sample capabilities in flash 

Also recently got a Mackie Big Knob monitor controller... much better routing options because of that one... allows me to have more monitors and a sub connected with individual control.

I recently found out that my subwoofer has serious resonance problems... so I've taken it out of the setup, and to my horror it seems that I've had it way too loud all the time... when I hear the kicks I made on Tempest without it, they suck big time... really thin  ... so I have some redesign to do on those kicks now... I'm getting a new sub at some point, but at least now I can switch it off on the Mackie Big Knob, and test if it sounds good without a sub.

I also began composing Ambient with headphones... to get a better stereo perspective orientation... so things a quite different here these days...

Well... ranting enough for this post... feel free to rant away if you want... it's an "anything goes" thread 

Just sold two modules today, and have thus ordered the REV2 8-voice upgrade as well... the synth is now going to be complete, even when I start using it... still perplexed though as to why it's cheaper to buy the 8-voice version and upgrade seperately, rather than buying the full 16 voice version.... last time I bought it split, it was the other way around... but I'm not complaining... just wondering...

[chysn]

still perplexed though as to why it's cheaper to buy the 8-voice version and upgrade seperately, rather than buying the full 16 voice version.... last time I bought it split, it was the other way around... but I'm not complaining... just wondering...

In the U.S., you save $100USD by buying the Rev2 16-voice instead of 8-voice + expansion. I checked some European stores, and the prices for 16-voice Rev2s are about 25% higher than in the U.S., whereas prices for 8-voice Rev2s are only about 15% higher.

[Razmo]

still perplexed though as to why it's cheaper to buy the 8-voice version and upgrade seperately, rather than buying the full 16 voice version.... last time I bought it split, it was the other way around... but I'm not complaining... just wondering...

In the U.S., you save $100USD by buying the Rev2 16-voice instead of 8-voice + expansion. I checked some European stores, and the prices for 16-voice Rev2s are about 25% higher than in the U.S., whereas prices for 8-voice Rev2s are only about 15% higher.

OK... but the funny thing is that it's the exact same store I bought it in, twice... of course you get the work of inserting the option yourself, but normally you would get it cheaper with an option already installed... it must be something about currencies I guess... US is almost always cheaper than buying here in Europe, but with freight, Taxes and all, there is no advantag to buying from overseas...

[Paul Dither]

OK... but the funny thing is that it's the exact same store I bought it in, twice... of course you get the work of inserting the option yourself, but normally you would get it cheaper with an option already installed... it must be something about currencies I guess... US is almost always cheaper than buying here in Europe, but with freight, Taxes and all, there is no advantag to buying from overseas...

Yeah, it's related to currencies and taxes mostly. In Germany, prices for US products constantly change as well. At times the OB-6 is cheaper than the P-6 while its module version stays more expensive than the P-6 equivalent (probably older stock), or the P12 might get cheaper than the P-6 and OB-6, and so on. And sure, customs duties, import taxes, and sales taxes/VAT will be added to the net price of an imported product. And of course the retailers want a little profit margin here too. In the US you have the advantage of being able to avoid paying sales taxes if you order your product from a retailer that isn't located in your state. And US retailers offer far more and much higher discount deals over the course of a year (like Black Friday deals, etc., which are still a marginal thing in Europe, especially when it comes to consumer electronics—here, you really only get stuff like synths cheaper if they're on a clearance sale). Let's hope the upcoming trade war doesn't make things worse.

[Razmo]

OK... but the funny thing is that it's the exact same store I bought it in, twice... of course you get the work of inserting the option yourself, but normally you would get it cheaper with an option already installed... it must be something about currencies I guess... US is almost always cheaper than buying here in Europe, but with freight, Taxes and all, there is no advantag to buying from overseas...

Yeah, it's related to currencies and taxes mostly. In Germany, prices for US products constantly change as well. At times the OB-6 is cheaper than the P-6 while its module version stays more expensive than the P-6 equivalent (probably older stock), or the P12 might get cheaper than the P-6 and OB-6, and so on. And sure, customs duties, import taxes, and sales taxes/VAT will be added to the net price of an imported product. And of course the retailers want a little profit margin here too. In the US you have the advantage of being able to avoid paying sales taxes if you order your product from a retailer that isn't located in your state. And US retailers offer far more and much higher discount deals over the course of a year (like Black Friday deals, etc., which are still a marginal thing in Europe, especially when it comes to consumer electronics—here, you really only get stuff like synths cheaper if they're on a clearance sale). Let's hope the upcoming trade war doesn't make things worse.

REV2 8-voice keys: 1.444 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2.099 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 629 Euros

REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2.073 Euros

it's not much, 26 Euros but still a better deal.

With the desktop version it's even more... a difference of 172 Euros!

[Paul Dither]

REV2 8-voice keys: 1.444 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2.099 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 629 Euros

REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2.073 Euros

it's not much, 26 Euros but still a better deal.

With the desktop version it's even more... a difference of 172 Euros!

At Thomann Germany it's similar:

REV2 8-voice keys: 1,423 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2,066 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 619 Euros

REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2,042 Euros => 24 Euros price difference. In the US, you save $99 if you buy the 16-voice version right away.

Also unusual compared to US retail prices: the 16-voice desktop version is only marginally cheaper than the 16-voice keyboard version: 77 Euros. In case of the 8-voice versions, there's a price difference of 149 Euros.

[Razmo]

REV2 8-voice keys: 1.444 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2.099 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 629 Euros

REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2.073 Euros

it's not much, 26 Euros but still a better deal.

With the desktop version it's even more... a difference of 172 Euros!

At Thomann Germany it's similar:

REV2 8-voice keys: 1,423 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2,066 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 619 Euros

REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2,042 Euros => 24 Euros price difference. In the US, you save $99 if you buy the 16-voice version right away.

Also unusual compared to US retail prices: the 16-voice desktop version is only marginally cheaper than the 16-voice keyboard version: 77 Euros.

It's Thomann Denmark I'm refering to... strange that it differ even within the same company just different countries... maybe it's because we're not part of the Euro... don't know