Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...

[Razmo]

Take this suggestion as one in good faith; but, perhaps it might be better to buy one synth at a time and spend a lot of time with it, instead of buying a whole studio in the space of a couple weeks. You'll either love it, or not, and you'll know if you want to change direction before you finish the whole puzzle. For example, get a Prophet 12 and play it into the ground for like six months or a year before deciding what comes next.

I think you forget, that I've had both the P12 and Prophet 8 for a VERY long time in the past... I know these two very well having made editors for them etc... the REV2 is very much a Prophet 8 with some new bells and whistles, the P12 is exactly the same ... I do not think I will learn these two much better than I already do ... neither the Evolver I already have... that's why they have been chosen... I know them, and they are the most powerful for what I want to obtain with my music right now... waiting to see new things pop up will only mean more waiting time... I want to get started... preferably yesterday!

[Razmo]

Well... I just sold four of my synths today to a Danish celebrity musician named "Master Fatman"... the world is small after all ... this means that tomorrow, when he collects the items, I'll be able to order a Desktop version of the REV2 which I'm really looking forward to.... it will be the first of two (the next being the Prophet 12 which I had before and unfortunately sold in a studio frenzy).

I hope I will get one of the first ones arriving at my dealer which should be very soon... depends on how many preorders they have I guess... otherwise I'll just have to wait until next delivery.

It will be the 8-voice version, since I'd like to see first, if the 8 voices will do... if not I can allways buy the upgrade later (thanks to DSI for making this kind of upgrade).

[Razmo]

A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3

[dslsynth]

Very nice, calm and pretty piece.

PS: Good old Master Fatman!? Cool!

[Razmo]

Actually, the signal flow and features of the Desktop Evolver is much like the P12... but I'll still keep the Dekstop Evolver, simply because it has a few very important sound sculpting features that I do not get with a P12.... it's mostly the true stereo configuration that attracts me, especially for wide stereo drone like sounds and effects... some of the nice tricks is in the way that you kan AM and FM the digital oscillators against each other, and having the synth split with two oscillators in each side it allows for some cool stereo perspectives... modulating the Filter split and the Panning also adds to the fun. P12 also lets you split two layers to each their side, but it does not have any means for the two sides to interfere with eachother since the layers cannot impact on each other... THAT is what makes the Evolver special in that regard.

Another important feature is the external inputs that are also stereo... I'll be connecting two microphones to the Evolver, which should allow for some realtime manipulation of acoustic things... it's not just the analog filter and VCA, but audio rate filter cutoff modulation, tuned feedback and the three delay lines will be fun to try and use to mangle the sound from the microphones (I plan on using different types of handdrums, flutes, bells and other obscure items for this... actually it should be possible to create some hybrid analog delay FX too using the feedback of the delays into the filter (you cannot do this with the oscillators, only from external audio)... on top of that, the distortion and highpass filter is also inside the audio path, which makes it possible to make delay iterations that change with each repeat. The Evolver will be connected via inserts which gives me the added possibility to use the Evolver Desktop both by itself for drones and FX, and at any time use it with the microphones connected to the same input channels on the mixer.

I have decided (by the way), to stop using my PCM92... my setup is too compact to allow any rack mountable gear unfortunately, so I'm using software plugins in my DAW instead... it works just as fine, and many reverb plugins are just as good these days... the PCM92 is also available in a plugin version anyway being totally algorithmically the same, so it's really insane to keep the PCM92 in that regard... it also gives me much more freedom in FX processing this way.

So I'm really happy with the way my studio is coming out now... small, uncluttered, compact, flexible etc... really looking forward to the day the four synths have been aquired, and I will not buy a single synth ever again, unless something can replace one of the "fantastic four" and do better... I am definitely looking forward to see what Dave comes up with next, because my gut feeling tells me, I'll be ending up with four DSI synths in the end... they are the most comprehensive, flexible, analog/hybrid and usually with the best SysEx specs allowing me to make SoundDiver editors for them.

[Paul Dither]

A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3

Very nice! How did you achieve the pouring water sound? Filter mod?

[Gerry Havinga]

A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3

Very nicely done Razmo, thanks for sharing. This is all "just"  the Evolver + reverb?

I am going to buy a second hand Evolver desktop this evening, really looking forward to exploring it.

[Razmo]

A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3

Very nice! How did you achieve the pouring water sound? Filter mod?

I used all four oscillators set to triangle and sine waveforms, then a heavy dose of pitch modulation from all four LFO's... also the Panning was modulated... all via random LFO waveforms.... all of that was then put thru a single delay line, fed back into itself and a bit back to the filter too... a bit of hipass filter was put on it too, to eliminate the worst lowend rumbles. (that is the short version of how it was made hehe) ... If I remember correctly, the filter is also in self oscillation mode, being randomly modulated..... all in all... a lot of random modulation to OSC and Filter and Pan ... my goal was a bubbling sensation, but still a bit artificial... actually the speed of the random LFO's can be slowed with the mod wheel, but I did not use this in the demo.

[Razmo]

A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3

Very nicely done Razmo, thanks for sharing. This is all "just"  the Evolver + reverb?

I am going to buy a second hand Evolver desktop this evening, really looking forward to exploring it.

Yes... only a single Evolver Desktop thru a Lexicon PCM92 reverb (the bubbly sound is actually going thru a Valhalla Shimmer plugin instead)... I admit that a lot of the ethereal feel comes from the verbs... but this is normal with Ambient music... I recorded 4-5 layers on my DAW for this... that is the nice thing about layer HD recording... you can reuse your one monosynth as many times as you want

[Paul Dither]

I used all three oscillators set to triangle and sine waveforms, then a heavy dose of pitch modulation from all four LFO's... altså the Panning was modulated... all via random LFO waveforms.... all of that was then put thru a single delay line, fed back into itself and a bit back to the filter too... a bit of hipass filter was put on it too, to eliminate the worst lowend rumbles. (that is the short version of how it was made hehe) ... If I remember correctly, the filter is also in self oscillation mode, being randomly modulated..... all in all... a lot of random modulation to OSC and Filter and Pan ... my goal was a bubbling sensation, but still a bit artificial... actually the speed of the random LFO's can be slowed with the mod wheel, but I did not use this in the demo.

Thanks for the explanation! So there's actually more pitch mod in use than I thought. "bubbling sensation" really describes it well.

[Razmo]

I used all three oscillators set to triangle and sine waveforms, then a heavy dose of pitch modulation from all four LFO's... altså the Panning was modulated... all via random LFO waveforms.... all of that was then put thru a single delay line, fed back into itself and a bit back to the filter too... a bit of hipass filter was put on it too, to eliminate the worst lowend rumbles. (that is the short version of how it was made hehe) ... If I remember correctly, the filter is also in self oscillation mode, being randomly modulated..... all in all... a lot of random modulation to OSC and Filter and Pan ... my goal was a bubbling sensation, but still a bit artificial... actually the speed of the random LFO's can be slowed with the mod wheel, but I did not use this in the demo.

Thanks for the explanation! So there's actually more pitch mod in use than I thought. "bubbling sensation" really describes it well.

Yes... a lot! ... I wanted the randomness of the "bubbles" to be as wild as possible, so the LFO's is set to different speeds, and if one LFO is used on more destinations, the amount is different and in negative modulation... I wanted the pitch changes to blend in randomly and to "fly around" in the stereo spectrum.... unfortunately the delay lines are mono, and that is why you can hear the tail of the bubbles gradually "flow" to the center.... but that's a limitation of the Evolver itself ... I've always wanted to do such a preset in combination with a true stereo delay because if the bubbles hit randomly in the stereo field, and the delay is true stereo, then the delays of each bubble will be located at the same place in the stereo field... that would make all the delays spread in the same fashion... think it will sound cool... but I still have not tried it out... think I will with the REV2 if it is a true stereo delay it has... it will not be as dense as the Evolver preset here, since it only has two oscillators though... but a layered A/B preset could do it.

[Paul Dither]

Yes... a lot! ... I wanted the randomness of the "bubbles" to be as wild as possible, so the LFO's is set to different speeds, and if one LFO is used on more destinations, the amount is different and in negative modulation... I wanted the pitch changes to blend in randomly and to "fly around" in the stereo spectrum.... unfortunately the delay lines are mono, and that is why you can hear the tail of the bubbles gradually "flow" to the center.... but that's a limitation of the Evolver itself ... I've always wanted to do such a preset in combination with a true stereo delay because if the bubbles hit randomly in the stereo field, and the delay is true stereo, then the delays of each bubble will be located at the same place in the stereo field... that would make all the delays spread in the same fashion... think it will sound cool... but I still have not tried it out... think I will with the REV2 if it is a true stereo delay it has... it will not be as dense as the Evolver preset here, since it only has two oscillators though... but a layered A/B preset could do it.

Thanks for the additional info! I might have a go at something like this on the Pro 2 with hardpanned delays and a split filter setting for more randomness.

[Razmo]

I've decided to listen to some of the advice given here by a few of you... I'll buy the REV2 Keyboard this week, instead of the module version.

The reason is simple really... my Roland A-70 is really good, but I really do not need 76 keys, just the usual standard 61 that the REV2 keyboard has... the REV2 also has quality FATAR keys which helps take this decision. Also, the A-70 has a lot of features that I never use... most of the control surface I never touch, so it is a waste of space... I'd rather have the REV2 controls spread out in such a place... also having the REV 2 inside my keyboard controller saves me some precious deskspace, plus it allows for better tweaking, and leaves the other precious space on my shelf above my table free for the two other modules I plan on getting.

Another reason for waiting with the Prophet 12 is that I can then (as other mentioned) use some time with just this one synth, getting to know it in depth without other modules to take away my attention... also creating a lot of presets for it solely.

This does not mean that the Prophet 12 is not wanted anymore, because it is... it will give me a lot of other synthesis types to use, but I can wait, and I probably will wait until after Winter NAMM getting one... seeing what Dave has been up to first etc... who knows he COULD end up releasing a Prophet 12 REV2 ... though I doubt it...

When I get my Dreadbox Abyss sold, I'll buy the REV2 upgrade to max the REV2 up to full specs.... and then a long time delving into this one synth will be my main goal until I have saved up for a P12.

[Shaw]

my Roland A-70 is really good, but I really do not need 76 keys, just the usual standard 61 that the REV2 keyboard has...

That’s a very logical choice... especially considering the Rev2 control layout. That will lead to some happy tweaking for sure.


I’ve been reading your *rant* lately with some interest... mostly because you’ve expressed some of my same frustrations with chasing gear.  So similarly to you, I’ve gotten rid of a lot of stuff.  I now have only 2 synths:  the OB-6 and a Moog Minitaur. I will limit myself to a total of 5 (will power, folks, will power).  The other 3 would fall somewhere along the lines of:
1) a monster analogue monosynth.  Not necessarily a Moog, but a Voyager or Model D would certainly fit the bill. And depending on the analogue mono I get, the Minitaur may find itself on Reverb.
2) a synth that so far has yet to be determined. I’ll see if anything catches my attention this NAMM.  I’d love to hold out for a new Sampler synth that I want DSI to release.
3) a P12 or P6 (yes, I know they are a bit different, but I can coax P6ish sounds out of the P12 if that’s all I had).  This decision is also going to be informed by what happens with #2. I’m leaning toward the P12 because it covers various synthesis types (Wavetable-ish, FM).


Sorry, didn’t mean to hi-jack your thread.  But you’re not alone in this “frustration with self” over eternally chasing gear.


Carry on...

[Razmo]

my Roland A-70 is really good, but I really do not need 76 keys, just the usual standard 61 that the REV2 keyboard has...

That’s a very logical choice... especially considering the Rev2 control layout. That will lead to some happy tweaking for sure.


I’ve been reading your *rant* lately with some interest... mostly because you’ve expressed some of my same frustrations with chasing gear.  So similarly to you, I’ve gotten rid of a lot of stuff.  I now have only 2 synths:  the OB-6 and a Moog Minitaur. I will limit myself to a total of 5 (will power, folks, will power).  The other 3 would fall somewhere along the lines of:
1) a monster analogue monosynth.  Not necessarily a Moog, but a Voyager or Model D would certainly fit the bill. And depending on the analogue mono I get, the Minitaur may find itself on Reverb.
2) a synth that so far has yet to be determined. I’ll see if anything catches my attention this NAMM.  I’d love to hold out for a new Sampler synth that I want DSI to release.
3) a P12 or P6 (yes, I know they are a bit different, but I can coax P6ish sounds out of the P12 if that’s all I had).  This decision is also going to be informed by what happens with #2. I’m leaning toward the P12 because it covers various synthesis types (Wavetable-ish, FM).


Sorry, didn’t mean to hi-jack your thread.  But you’re not alone in this “frustration with self” over eternally chasing gear.


Carry on...

You're not hijhack'in anything just rant... that is what this topic is all about

And you're right... seems we are in the same "problem" ... pretty close actually because I've also thought about one big monosynth to take care of the bass departments that the other synths do not... but I'm hesitating getting one simply because I'm hesitating getting anything monophonic.

The reason is mostly because of the genre I want to be doing.... I like the booming MOOG sound, and it was a must when I did techno and rhythmically induced music in the past... but with Ambient, I'm not so sure if a MOOG will be it's money worth in use.... sure, MOOGs are used often for Berlin School basslines, but I really do not think I cannot do these with a REV2... and if it needs some bottom end, my mixer has EQ for this purpose.

For what I do, I'll need polyphony most of all, and certainly also a very deep synthesis engine to create all the FX and wonderful strange noises I'd need in this genre... and a MOOG is usually rather limited compared to a DSI synths flexibillity in the engine department... I've been thinking about a Subsequent37, but I'm not going to do it.

I need to have access to as many synthesis types I can, in just three, maybe four synths... so that put a lot of demand on the devices... I could have gone for a P6 or OB6, but three things make the REV2 a better choice for me... The polyphony, The deepness of the engine, and not the least; PRICE! ... I want ONE polysynth with analog oscillators, and the REV2 is the best fit in almost any category of my requirements.

But a REV2 alone will at some point meet it's limitations anyway, mainly because of the analog oscillators lack of sound pallette... I will need digital oscillators as well, which is where the P12 comes in... it gives me both VA, Wavetable and FM synthesis options, with a whopping 12 voices also, and a very deep engine plus audio rate modulation... it will be the perfect complementation to the REV2 for me.

And after that, I'd say I'm covered.... almost... I'd certainly be able to do loads of nice Ambient music with just those two synths... but I lack ONE crucial element; Vocals, natural FX and ambiences etc.... or in other words: I lack sample oscillators... and I'll patiently wait until something shows up with this combined with analog VCF/VCA... I REALLY REALLY hope Dave would take this up at some point.

With these three synths, I cannot see that I'd need much more.... sure you could get other synths in the future that is largely based on these synthesis types and some extra bells and whistles, but I'd not feel that I lack anything to make the Ambient that I want to...

That is why I think I'll end up with 3... maybe 4 synths in the end.... but they will be VERY VERY VERY carefully picked out, that is for sure...

[dslsynth]

I have decided (by the way), to stop using my PCM92... my setup is too compact to allow any rack mountable gear unfortunately [...]

Out of curiosity: how much are you selling your PCM92 for? Checked the Thoman price. It looks quite expensive!

I've decided to listen to some of the advice given here by a few of you...

Sounds like a plan. Very happy to hear that. Wish you could arrive at a point where the studio setup is not changed so often as it costs you a lot of money. And who knows maybe that change could make you afford a P6 or OB6 some day in the future?

When I get my Dreadbox Abyss sold, I'll buy the REV2 upgrade to max the REV2 up to full specs.... and then a long time delving into this one synth will be my main goal until I have saved up for a P12.

Just listening on the Abyss. It sounds really good. Sad you are selling it!

[Razmo]

I have decided (by the way), to stop using my PCM92... my setup is too compact to allow any rack mountable gear unfortunately [...]

Out of curiosity: how much are you selling your PCM92 for? Checked the Thoman price. It looks quite expensive!

I've decided to listen to some of the advice given here by a few of you...

Sounds like a plan. Very happy to hear that. Wish you could arrive at a point where the studio setup is not changed so often as it costs you a lot of money. And who knows maybe that change could make you afford a P6 or OB6 some day in the future?

When I get my Dreadbox Abyss sold, I'll buy the REV2 upgrade to max the REV2 up to full specs.... and then a long time delving into this one synth will be my main goal until I have saved up for a P12.

Just listening on the Abyss. It sounds really good. Sad you are selling it!

1. I'm not selling it yet, because I'd really like to be nondependant on software plugins if I can... I'm trying to find a physical space for it at the moment... but if I sell it, it will go for about 66-75% of the Thomann price.

2. That is also my reason to cut down... I'm not getting a P6 or OB6 though... the REV2 does way more than those, for half the price, deeper engine and more polyphony... I only need one polysynth with analog oscillators... I'm 100% certain I'm not getting one of those two

3. Yes... the Dreadboxes sound really good, but are very limited, has no presets which I want them to now... I tried the hands-on approach, and it's not really me... too limited sound pallette with analog monosynths... I know the Abyss is 4-voice poly, but it's still limited in comparison to the REV2 ... It's the deal with what I'm doing now... I have to make some hard choices on what I NEED and what I WANT... I should only have what I NEED... because my head works strangely... if I start to have two synths that are too similar, my brain goes "then why not that and that and that one too!?" ... have to stop thinking like that. Having all options quickly grows into a completely larger than life studio... been there done that... several times... no work... they say, that if you always do the same, and it does not work, then maybe you should do things differently... that's where I'm at now... I have to make restraints from falling into the GAS pit.

[Razmo]

... it's done... it's on it's way

Now I just hope it will be 100% working, and not give me any encoder problems like I've read about in the REV2 forum...

It's the 8-voice version, so that I can test it out a bit first before ordering the voice upgrade... also it's nice to be able to split the cost up a bit...

Will start on a SoundDiver editor right away, so I guess I'm off to analyze every byte of the dump like I did with the P12, since DSI has stopped providing information on this on their synths (a really bad move in my opinion... puts a hell of a lot of work on people wanting to make editors).

[chysn]

Will start on a SoundDiver editor right away, so I guess I'm off to analyze every byte of the dump like I did with the P12, since DSI has stopped providing information on this on their synths (a really bad move in my opinion... puts a hell of a lot of work on people wanting to make editors).

That's too bad. I wouldn't have bothered to write Wav2Evolver without good documentation, and I would have had a lot less fun with my Mopho, as I wrote a ton of inline editors in C. That's the 80/20 Rule, I guess. Still, it should be readily available for those who ask, because don't they need it formatted for internal use?

[Razmo]

Will start on a SoundDiver editor right away, so I guess I'm off to analyze every byte of the dump like I did with the P12, since DSI has stopped providing information on this on their synths (a really bad move in my opinion... puts a hell of a lot of work on people wanting to make editors).

That's too bad. I wouldn't have bothered to write Wav2Evolver without good documentation, and I would have had a lot less fun with my Mopho, as I wrote a ton of inline editors in C. That's the 80/20 Rule, I guess. Still, it should be readily available for those who ask, because don't they need it formatted for internal use?

I think so too... but DSI never really answered on this when the topic was up with the P12... I WILL analyze it nonetheless, and make my own list... I believe I even posted this list for P12 back then on the old DSI forum for others to use... and yes... they must have this list somewhere in-house, if at least in a code format like the one they DID supply me with for the Tempest back then...

I'm pretty certain I will write them and ask for this anyway... does not hurt to try...