Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...

Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2015, 08:17:36 AM »
I've had the Sub37 for a few days now.... wow! ... what a sound this thing does... it sings!  8)

In the beginning I thought I had a bad unit... so much I actualy wrote support at MOOG... every time I pressed a key, I could hear that the pitch was unstable... very very subtle.... that was, until after a mere ten minutes AFTER I sent the support mail, and actualy found out (by reading the manual... bummer!), that the Sub37 has a "slop" funtion as well under the Global menu... it was set at 20 cents approx... I can hear the effect is nice and analog when both oscillators are in use, but I prefer it at zero in most cases... so there is NOTHING wrong with my Sub37 :)

If I should give a short first-hand review, I'd say that the build quality is absolutely top notch! ... even better thean the Slim Phatty I had... the knobs feel like they're bolted to the top plate, and sport absolutely NO wobblyness at all... And the travel is VERY smooth with a firm resistance that REALLY let you adjust in fine detail... a joy to use the knobs! ... also the rotary switches seems like they're quality switches... nice clicky feel to them... Buttons are solid, with a thorough "CLIK!" when pushed... not soft and weak. Mod and pitch wheel also have a nice firm flow with good resistance ... something I have to get used to, as normaly these are more easy to move on other synths, but it still speaks of quality components nonetheless.

I've not delved much into the engine yet, so I cannot give my opinion quite yet on that topic... The keys I can surely rate... I'd say they're the synth's most weak point, and then again not... I think it's a matter of personal taste here... but for me, the keys feel a bit too "firm"... it takes some pushing, to use them and that makes you tired in your arms quite quickly I think... you really have to punch the keys too, to get a stable playing style... if you're used to playing light sequences, the pressure required becomes a bit of a problem really... your timing basicaly get's f***** up! ... so I think it require some getting used to for some players, unless you're the Keith Emmerson type who bashes away on lead sounds... but the keys themselves are robust, and I've not experienced any misallignments between individual keys... I do feel though, that the black keys are raised just a tad bit too much... but I've seen other users complain about this, so I'm not surprised... Aftertouch is good... not hard to initiate as on a Roland keyboard, but it seems that it takes a little bit of extra pressure to initiate it on the black keys... probably because they are shorter than the white ones, and probably because the aftertouch strip underneath has it's contact point with the black and white keys set further away on the white keys ... that's what it feels like at least.

But all in all I'm VERY VERY happy with this synth... just the sound of it is so darn IN YOUR FACE analog MOOG'ish, the build quality lets you feel like you were driving a Ferrari or something... And then it actualy looks pretty good too.

With respect to the design, the only thing I think they should have done was to place some sort of barrier between some of the LED's under the hood... LEDs sitting close by each other seems to be lighted up from adjacent LEDS that are on, making them look "dimmed"... that probably the only thing I feel looks "cheap"... especialy when an adjacent LED is flashing... you can see the other LEDs flashing dimly too... with so much attention to other design detail, I'm wondering why they did not put some light blocking thing on the LEDs so that they only light upwards... but it's minor... not even worth thinking about, but I notice it, so I have to say it...
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 11:49:12 AM by Razmo »
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2015, 10:29:33 AM »
Great Razmo,  enjoy.   

As we discussed just a few days ago...The difficulty with black key aftertouch I think effects all the instruments- at least all the ones I've tried.   The reason you described makes sense.
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2015, 11:13:51 AM »
Congrats, Razmo! Enjoy your new trophy.  ;)

Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2015, 02:51:17 AM »
Well... the more I play on the Sub37, the more I love the sound, and the more I hate the keyboard  ::)

...really... they keys are way too stiff, black keys are too raised, the travel is "spongy" and it's just simply impossible for me to play it with good timing... If they ever make another version of it, I certainly hope they'll find another keybed because it really spoils an otherwise REALLY good synth.

Luckily for me, I don't need to use the keys, as it will just be used as a module with superb physical control. Also, I found a bug regarding the use of the keyboard... When the Sub37 is set to "Local Off" mode, and is hooked up to a DAW sequencer that echo MIDI back to the Sub37 (playing the built in keybed), you get constant retriggering of notes when you release a key... it happens very often, and only when you change presets right after you have released a key... if you wait a little after releasing the key, it won't happen... it's really strange...

If you play the Sub37 via another keyboard, then there is no retriggering of notes on release... it only happens when you use the built in keybed of the Sub37... you can tweak the knobs on it, and change presets anyway you like without problems, as long as you DO NOT play the built in keybed.... if you set Local to "On" the problem goes away, but that introduce double triggering of course which is of no use...

I also noticed, that if you change presets on Sub37 right after you release keys, then the panel sometimes takes a little while to update all LEDs... sometimes they do not update at all, untill you press a key.

Luckily, as long as I use the Sub37 as a module, I won't be introducing this bug... but I've written MOOG about it anyway, since it needs fixing.

Also, I'm having massive problems getting my computer to accept a USB connection... sometimes it works, at other times it says that a device connected has malfunctioned, and at other times it just goes as "unrecognized Device"... I'm not sure if others have USB problems with their Sub37...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2015, 05:09:01 AM »
Well... the more I play on the Sub37, the more I love the sound, and the more I hate the keyboard  ::)

...really... they keys are way too stiff, black keys are too raised, the travel is "spongy" and it's just simply impossible for me to play it with good timing... If they ever make another version of it, I certainly hope they'll find another keybed because it really spoils an otherwise REALLY good synth.

Luckily for me, I don't need to use the keys, as it will just be used as a module with superb physical control. Also, I found a bug regarding the use of the keyboard... When the Sub37 is set to "Local Off" mode, and is hooked up to a DAW sequencer that echo MIDI back to the Sub37 (playing the built in keybed), you get constant retriggering of notes when you release a key... it happens very often, and only when you change presets right after you have released a key... if you wait a little after releasing the key, it won't happen... it's really strange...

If you play the Sub37 via another keyboard, then there is no retriggering of notes on release... it only happens when you use the built in keybed of the Sub37... you can tweak the knobs on it, and change presets anyway you like without problems, as long as you DO NOT play the built in keybed.... if you set Local to "On" the problem goes away, but that introduce double triggering of course which is of no use...

I also noticed, that if you change presets on Sub37 right after you release keys, then the panel sometimes takes a little while to update all LEDs... sometimes they do not update at all, untill you press a key.

Luckily, as long as I use the Sub37 as a module, I won't be introducing this bug... but I've written MOOG about it anyway, since it needs fixing.

Also, I'm having massive problems getting my computer to accept a USB connection... sometimes it works, at other times it says that a device connected has malfunctioned, and at other times it just goes as "unrecognized Device"... I'm not sure if others have USB problems with their Sub37...
Congratulations on your new Moog! It is certainly a beast! :)

Having both generations here, I can understand your feelings. My Little Phatty is a rock, no problems, either software or hardware related. The Sub Phatty on the other hand, had some flaws. It seems that the newer products suffer a lot more with problems than the older ones. For instance, I couldn't imagine a product like the Sub Phatty arriving uncalibrated (internally) - which it did and made me open it and adjust a trim. To me, it only means one thing: their quality control isn't the same as before.

Key-wise, unconsidering bugs, I think i'd like the stiffer keys - I'm a piano player. Good luck with the little bugs.

Cheers!
Moog Minimoog Voyager, Little Phatty and Sub Phatty| MI Ambika | Elektron Analog Four and Analog Rytm

Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2015, 08:56:42 AM »
I think that the increased bugs could probably be because they are now offering more features in the OS than previously... the Sub37 has an imense modulation addition that earlier products did not have really, and I was told that even the Voyager still has unfixed bugs...

Anyways, I've recieved reply fast from MOOG, and they've forwarded the info to Amos, who will write back to me if he needs more info on this bug... Amos has been more than helpful earlier when I wrote with him on the subject of Slim Phatty and Minitaur... even giving me specialized OS updates, so I hope to see some fixes soon... crossing my fingers... at least...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2015, 09:38:27 AM »
They're currently working on the pre-release version of the new firmware and the editor. So most things should be fixed soon.

Sneak preview from a Windows user:

« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 10:20:03 AM by Paul Dither »

Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #87 on: December 09, 2015, 01:51:35 PM »
They're currently working on the pre-release version of the new firmware and the editor. So most things should be fixed soon.

Sneak preview from a Windows user:



Yeah... I know... Andy at MOOG told me Amos is busy, and working with "tunnel vision" at the moment hehe... nonetheless, Amos got back to me today, stating he was busy, but we are now talking about this bug I found... also he promised to give me the SysEx specs very soon for the Sub37... MOOG does have one very friendly and talented employee in Amos for sure...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2015, 02:27:14 PM »
MOOG does have one very friendly and talented employee in Amos for sure...

And Moog managed to hire Geert Bevin which is a really really smart software developer being deeply involved in development and maintenance of LinnStrument OS amongst other things. That is going to be interesting to see how that evolves over the next couple of NAMM shows.
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Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2015, 03:08:14 PM »
MOOG does have one very friendly and talented employee in Amos for sure...

And Moog managed to hire Geert Bevin which is a really really smart software developer being deeply involved in development and maintenance of LinnStrument OS amongst other things. That is going to be interesting to see how that evolves over the next couple of NAMM shows.

Cool! :)

I just hope that Amos will include checksum bypass in the sysex specs on Sub37 as well (if not done allready)... he did make a special OS for me when I had the Minitaur, so I hope he's just as friendly again :D
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Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2015, 03:17:36 PM »
Finaly ended my deal for a Yamaha VL-70m by the way... should be here someday next week.

I'm looking forward to delve deep into the programing of this physical modelling synth... more than 1.000 parameters make up it's engine, and when used with a wind controller iit can sound extremely organic and lifelike... mostly the presets are imitations of flutes, guitars and stringed instruments, but I'll be delving into more eksperimental programing of this to create some out-of-this-world kind of instruments.

I actualy had the VL-70m engine in the EX5 keyboard I had earlier, but I find it nice to finaly be able to have this dedicated device that only take up half a rack space, and also has socket for a real wind controller... someday I might get such a controller... but currently I only have the BC3 controller from Yamaha.

The sounds this thing does will definitely fill a niche in my studio of eight synths... it'll do what no other of my synths is capable of... so my setup is nearing it's end... next up is the KORG WaveDrum Global Edition which will take care of physical modelling of drums.

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2015, 09:03:32 AM »
Well.... got my VL70-m home a few days ago... nice little synth... still very unique, but it will be a nightmare to program it's many parameters... even with an editor... I know absolutely NOTHING about the structure at all  :o

So I've been creating a little "doodle" instead... some Jarresque something... very much inspired... you'll hear:

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/test.mp3

It's layered... Bass is Evolver (with a heavy dose of low end boost) ... Strings are from Prophet ´08 ... The rest is Sub 37  :) ... I really like the analog sound of the Sub 37... it really does have "that vibe" I've been looking for.
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2015, 11:19:28 AM »
I looked at getting one of those a couple of years ago, for use with a midi guitar but the second hand prices were pretty high.

Have you though of getting a breath controller for it?

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #93 on: December 16, 2015, 11:52:23 AM »
I looked at getting one of those a couple of years ago, for use with a midi guitar but the second hand prices were pretty high.

Have you though of getting a breath controller for it?

I found a good price of US$440 which is a bit lower than what they go for these days on EBAY... Regarding breath controller, I allready had a Yamaha BC3 from when I had a VL70-m many many years ago, so that problem is solved.... though, I have been considering getting a WX5 controller for it.

The magic of this box certinaly comes out of this box, when some sort of Breath controller is used... I'd say it's more or less essential if you want it to be well convincing.
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #94 on: December 16, 2015, 12:37:46 PM »
$440 is pretty good, I remember them being around the £500 mark when I looked so nearly twice as much. I'm very interested in how you get on with it.

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #95 on: December 16, 2015, 03:18:01 PM »
$440 is pretty good, I remember them being around the £500 mark when I looked so nearly twice as much. I'm very interested in how you get on with it.

So am I! :D ... I intend on buying Patchman's Turbo upgrade chip for it actualy, to get some quality voices to work with, if I decide that programing in depth is too complicated and time consuming...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #96 on: December 16, 2015, 03:20:12 PM »
...made a few add-ons to the Jarresque track above... again, just some experimental noodlings to hear the tone of the Sub 37 in action...
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Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2016, 07:30:58 AM »
I've been fiddling around with my new Yamaha VL70-m physical modelling synth for a while, and really like the realism of this technology... it will serve my ambient fantasy pieces perfectly as I suspected... so now I'm thinking about getting the Turbo Upgrade Chip soon.

But one thing that is irritating is that it's monophonic.... that works nice for flutes, but are not very good for guitar/plucked string simulations... It would just be nice if this thing was at least 8 note polyphonic.

But I took the VL70-m in for a test today... I simply sampled a straight C4 violin sound (from the VL70-m), and then put it into my V-Synth GT... I wanted to see if the formant capabilities of the V-Synth would give me the polyphony I crave.

The result is quite good... it's not on par with the expressiveness of the VL70-m of course, but I still think it does a great job of creating the polyphony that the VL70-m cannot do.

In the following demo, the first part is the VL70-m playing... the second part is the V-Synth GT with formant control.

http://razmo.ziphoid.com/ViolinTest.mp3
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 07:33:17 AM by Razmo »
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2016, 10:16:41 AM »
Allright, this may seem weird, but I actualy bought an old AKAI S-612 sampler... It's completely oldschool 12bit sampling, in mono, and only has 128kb of sample memory, and a maximum sample rate of 32KHz.

But this sampler has a few interresting features that had me interrested... the first and foremost being, that it support MIDI Sample Dump Standard messages, which may allow me to incorporate the samples into entries in SoundDiver that I use a lot... with only 128kb of sample memory, it's not so bad transferwise.

It's really sampling at it's basic... only ONE sample can be in the machine at any time, and it has absolutely no menu diving... it's got a vibrato LFO for pitch, and a simple envelope consisting of only a decay parameter for the VCA. On top of that, a realtime (hardwired) lowpass filter knob, to smooth the sound... and then some sliders for setting sample start point and loop stuff.... just the basics.

The fun part is that on the back each of it's 6 voices can be taken out individualy, which tells me that each voice is a true separate voice... that means that mixing of the six voices is most likely analog with each it's own DAC for each voice... but the filter is also analog, though it's an overall control.

The sample can of course be played polyphonically, and it surely has that dirty oldschool 12bit grit to it. The fact that it's mono means that I'll be adding some external FX to it for live tweaking (I'm having some Dreadbox pedals in mind here).

This sampler will be doing one simple task for me... I lack the capability of playing some FX samples in my ambient compositions, and I'll be playing these live while tweaking the sound, while turning knobs etc... it is not meant to be sequenced at all.... I just needed something that would allow me to dump samples on the fly from my computer, while harddisk recording them... on the fly...

I believe this sampler will do what I want of it.... I even got one that has the pictured diskdrive with it, but I don't think I'll be using it to be honest, as I'm only going to use this in real time.

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Razmo

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2016, 10:18:27 AM »
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