Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...

Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2015, 12:27:31 PM »
The Sub37 will be my only analog monosynth in my setup, taking care of mostly my bass needs, and the occational Lead and FX/Percussion...

Take this to shorten the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42O1WKvA4HQ

The bass is done by the Minitaur, but all the other synth sounds come from the Sub 37 being fed through a MF-104.

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2015, 12:54:27 PM »
@Razmo: Have you considered some of the more evolved keyboard controllers such as the ROLI Rise or the soon-to-be-available KMI K-Board Pro 4 both of which are 3D controllers? There will be plenty of aftertouch on these! Only downside is that almost all DSI synths do not support 3D expression as that requires note-per-channel features.

No... not really because I initialy did not want more than ONE master keyboard, and wanted that one to hopefuly be a useful synth that I'd use... that way I would save the space for that synth in my rack... but finding a "useful synth" with a good keybed too... well... not easy... I'd have been satisfied with the GT if the aftertouch had been more sensitive... honestly, I have sometimes thought about giving up on aftertouch alltogether, simply because of the problems finding all these criterias in just one keyboard synth.

Also... I have nothing but bad experiences with controller keyboards... they are a lousy quality compared to even keyboards of the 80's and 90's ... so I've given up on finding the solution in that department... if you want quality in the controller market, you have to pay way more than I'm prepared to pay for it.

I know that a lot of controllers recently, have poly aftertouch... but that's not really needed here... besides, those that are, are obscure new controllers, not real standard keys... and I don't want that... all I really need is a good quality keybed, with precise and sensitive aftertouch and velocity... in addition to a pitch wheel and a mod wheel... that's it... at least 61 keys... but I've not tried a controller yet, that fit all my needs... the best I've played thus far is still my old 76key EX5, but that's going soon...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2015, 12:58:41 PM »
Razmo. 

Nearing the end of your set up, huh.... I don't think that will be possible for most of us ;)

I do have to say though that I have reached a point where making use of all the instruments means greater time away from each of them individually.  By time I go back in several weeks to use my relatively new Pro 2,  I will have forgotten some of its operation.    Unless something magical comes out of Namm I'm good for a while.

 Re: Aftertouch.  It always seems to me that the black keys are harder to trigger with aftertouch.  This is the case on any instrument that I had AT on.  So maybe it is a wear thing whereas the contacts get smoother with use - or something like that.

Ha ha... well... I know the GAS problem, and even my own mother don't believe me when I say that this is the end of GAS :D ... And probably she (and you) are right... but I have put a limit on myself... 8 synths at a time, no more, or things get too complicated... but I may very well swap things out over time as new GAS inspiring things get released... but I'll have to deal with that, when it's time for it :D

Right now is about getting a finished setup, because I have a bad habbit of going cold, when I do not feel my setup is complete... that means no music composed... just waiting... and I'm tired of it, so now there is a limit so that I can get my mind focused from gathering stuff, to actualy making some music.
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2015, 01:00:55 PM »
I read somewhere that it should be the same keybed as in one of DSI's synths... either the P12 or P6... don¨'t remember which, but that hints me that the aftertouch will be good...

The aftertouch works fine for me, but the keyboard of the Sub 37 has nothing in common with the ones that have been used in any DSI/Sequential products. The height of the black keys feels a tad greater and overall the keyboard feels a bit more stiff, which doesn't affect the aftertouch behaviour though.

Strange... I think I read it was a Fatar keybed like the ones DSI use... but it may be another model or something? ... anyway, it does not matter... I want the Sub37 for the synth, not necessarily the keybed... I'm sure I'll find it ok... I hope :)
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2015, 01:06:39 PM »
Strange... I think I read it was a Fatar keybed like the ones DSI use... but it may be another model or something? ... anyway, it does not matter... I want the Sub37 for the synth, not necessarily the keybed... I'm sure I'll find it ok... I hope :)

Definitely not Fatar. I've read somewhere that the brand is Huaxin and the keyboard should be identical to the one of the Novation Bass Station 2 and several M-Audio, ESI, EMU, and CME products.

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2015, 01:10:13 PM »
The Sub37 will be my only analog monosynth in my setup, taking care of mostly my bass needs, and the occational Lead and FX/Percussion...

Take this to shorten the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42O1WKvA4HQ

The bass is done by the Minitaur, but all the other synth sounds come from the Sub 37 being fed through a MF-104.

Nice video! ... yeah... the sound I'm after is certainly there with the Sub37... generaly I want it to be able to do those old 70's style Berlin School and Dark Ambient bass-lines... you know... really deep and boomy... I've not found other synths than MOOG's that'll do them the way I want them to :)

I'm wondering... what do you think about the Minitaur vs. Sub37 in the bass department? ... I've been using a Minitaur before, but back then I liked the sound of the Slim Phatty more, because it sounded more "creamy" ... so I got rid of the Minitaur... though mostly because of the limited playing range.

I hope the Sub37 will do as good bass-sounds as the Minitaur at least...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2015, 01:11:56 PM »
Strange... I think I read it was a Fatar keybed like the ones DSI use... but it may be another model or something? ... anyway, it does not matter... I want the Sub37 for the synth, not necessarily the keybed... I'm sure I'll find it ok... I hope :)

Definitely not Fatar. I've read somewhere that the brand is Huaxin and the keyboard should be identical to the one of the Novation Bass Station 2 and several M-Audio, ESI, EMU, and CME products.

OK! ... well I've had the E-MU controller keyboards... if it's the same as those it's quite good ... I recall liking the feel of those, and also the aftertouch... unfortunately the build was plastic with really wobbly knobs I did not like... always something wrong :D
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2015, 01:28:40 PM »
Nice video! ... yeah... the sound I'm after is certainly there with the Sub37... generaly I want it to be able to do those old 70's style Berlin School and Dark Ambient bass-lines... you know... really deep and boomy... I've not found other synths than MOOG's that'll do them the way I want them to :)

Thanks a lot, Razmo!

I'm wondering... what do you think about the Minitaur vs. Sub37 in the bass department? ... I've been using a Minitaur before, but back then I liked the sound of the Slim Phatty more, because it sounded more "creamy" ... so I got rid of the Minitaur... though mostly because of the limited playing range.

I hope the Sub37 will do as good bass-sounds as the Minitaur at least...

They're both strong in the bass department. I mainly kept the Minitaur to free up the Sub 37 for other duties, especially when I do things live. I would say that the Minitaur's oscillators sound a tad different to me, but not in a superior way - just different. I was able to get out some good bass sounds with the Sub 37. Also, don't forget that you can always add the Sub oscillator to thicken the sound to your favor at the bottom end. Little amounts can help already.

I've done this track exclusively with the Sub 37, including drums and basses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc

As for more creamy or softer analog sounds, it can do that as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs

(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread for shameless self-promotion, just to provide a couple of examples.)

Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2015, 01:34:03 PM »
OK! ... well I've had the E-MU controller keyboards... if it's the same as those it's quite good ... I recall liking the feel of those, and also the aftertouch... unfortunately the build was plastic with really wobbly knobs I did not like... always something wrong :D

I would definitely describe the action as being good. It's rather the built quality that shows that this keyboard is rather on the cheap end when compared to Fatar. By that I mean that I've not yet seen a perfectly straight Sub 37 keyboard - and I've seen and played quite a few. It's either almost not or more uneven. That's about the only downside.
More than likely though, you should get one with a metal pot for the filter cutoff, i.e. an updated board.

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2015, 01:38:04 PM »
Nice video! ... yeah... the sound I'm after is certainly there with the Sub37... generaly I want it to be able to do those old 70's style Berlin School and Dark Ambient bass-lines... you know... really deep and boomy... I've not found other synths than MOOG's that'll do them the way I want them to :)

Thanks a lot, Razmo!

I'm wondering... what do you think about the Minitaur vs. Sub37 in the bass department? ... I've been using a Minitaur before, but back then I liked the sound of the Slim Phatty more, because it sounded more "creamy" ... so I got rid of the Minitaur... though mostly because of the limited playing range.

I hope the Sub37 will do as good bass-sounds as the Minitaur at least...

They're both strong in the bass department. I mainly kept the Minitaur to free up the Sub 37 for other duties, especially when I do things live. I would say that the Minitaur's oscillators sound a tad different to me, but not in a superior way - just different. I was able to get out some good bass sounds with the Sub 37. Also, don't forget that you can always add the Sub oscillator to thicken the sound to your favor at the bottom end. Little amounts can help already.

I've done this track exclusively with the Sub 37, including drums and basses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc

As for more creamy or softer analog sounds, it can do that as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs

(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread for shameless self-promotion, just to provide a couple of examples.)

Thanx for the videos! ... sounds reassuring to me :)

I know about the sub on the Sub37... actualy that's one of the main reasons I did not choose the Minitaur instead, as I'm going to use the MOOG for mainly bass sounds... but I often use two detuned sawtooths, with a one octave lower squarewave... it's crucial for the deep basses I'm after.

But also, the extended mod.matrix that MOOG put in the Sub37 is kind of unique to a MOOG of this price range, and as I'm a deep editing type of guy, that made quite an impression on me as well...  but I'll also be using sequencers in my gear a lot more in the future, so the build in sequencer of the Sub37 is a huge plus for me as well.

In all, I'm trying to get as much away from using a computer in my editing and playing, and more into creating stuff live, but some elements simply need tight timing... percussion and bass specificaly...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2015, 01:40:23 PM »
OK! ... well I've had the E-MU controller keyboards... if it's the same as those it's quite good ... I recall liking the feel of those, and also the aftertouch... unfortunately the build was plastic with really wobbly knobs I did not like... always something wrong :D

I would definitely describe the action as being good. It's rather the built quality that shows that this keyboard is rather on the cheap end when compared to Fatar. By that I mean that I've not yet seen a perfectly straight Sub 37 keyboard - and I've seen and played quite a few. It's either almost not or more uneven. That's about the only downside.
More than likely though, you should get one with a metal pot for the filter cutoff, i.e. an updated board.

Yeah... I just read some complaints on the keybed on the MOOG forum... I hope it's not that bad as some tend to make it sound though... some say it's ok, other say it's real bad... I guess I'll just have to make my own opinion when it arrives... afterall... if I'm totaly unsatisfied, I can always deliver it back within 30 days... so it's not really a problem :)
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2015, 01:45:09 PM »
But also, the extended mod.matrix that MOOG put in the Sub37 is kind of unique to a MOOG of this price range, and as I'm a deep editing type of guy, that made quite an impression on me as well...  but I'll also be using sequencers in my gear a lot more in the future, so the build in sequencer of the Sub37 is a huge plus for me as well.

That's true. The Sub 37 definitely offers the best price-feature-ratio when you look at Moog's whole catalog. The sequencer is simple (esp. when compared to DSI's architecture), but fun - especially features like ratchet and the ability to apply arpeggiator parameters (like octave range and playback order) to the sequencer as well.

In all, I'm trying to get as much away from using a computer in my editing and playing, and more into creating stuff live, but some elements simply need tight timing... percussion and bass specificaly...

Trust me, the Sub 37 is very rewarding in that. It's amongst the best instruments that offer a knob per function interface. It'll definitely suck you in for days. Creating new sounds from scratch is a breeze.

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2015, 01:49:41 PM »
I can hear by listening to your demo's that I'll be very happy indeed :) ... just that typical old-school like MOOG'ish sound that I miss in my setup... no doubt about it... even if I don't like the keys I like the sound... that's the most important right now.

Also one more thing that I REALLY like about the Sub37, is that by using the extended mod-matrix functions, I'm finaly able to make the Envelope feedback trick... that has not been possible with any other MOOG I've had... the ability to route the filter envelope to the Filter envelope's time parameters... this allow for creating more exponential envelope curves, or linear (if you need that), and it's a must have for me when designing basses...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2015, 01:51:29 PM »
I've done this track exclusively with the Sub 37, including drums and basses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc

As for more creamy or softer analog sounds, it can do that as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs

These two tracks are really good. Thanks for sharing, Paul Dither! :)
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2015, 02:47:34 AM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/E310U_GT.mp3

A small example of me messing with an Eminent 310 Unique sample on the V-Synth GT... I sampled all keys of the E310U when I had it, so I was currious as to how it would sound with formant control accross the keyboard... I got pretty surprised actualy, I can hardly hear much difference... totaly Eminent all the way from the lows to the highs, and I used just ONE sample for this... C-3 of the strings ensemble.

This sample-synth certainly has it's strong points... invaluable if you, like me, HATE making multisamples... the only thing the synth cannot do which irritates me, is a good sounding phaser... I want the Smallstone sound :D ... not possible with V-Synth... sounds way too weak and digital... got to put the real deal on the outs for that.

I actualy messed with some vocal sounds earlier too, and was just as impressed... the formant capabilities opens up a totaly different world of expressive vocal synthesis for me...
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #75 on: December 01, 2015, 09:55:58 AM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/E310U_GT.mp3

A small example of me messing with an Eminent 310 Unique sample on the V-Synth GT...

Very cool. And pretty much indistinguishable, as you said.

What exactly do the formant capabilities include? – Never been a Roland guy, so that's why I'm asking.

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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #76 on: December 01, 2015, 11:15:11 AM »
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/E310U_GT.mp3

A small example of me messing with an Eminent 310 Unique sample on the V-Synth GT...

Very cool. And pretty much indistinguishable, as you said.

What exactly do the formant capabilities include? – Never been a Roland guy, so that's why I'm asking.

Well... in essence, all there is to it is that you can encode a sample in a way that when you play back the sample at any pitch, it will keep the formants of the sample steady thru the whole keyrange... you have to use a solo sound though, since it obviously recognize the pitch and does some FFT analysis, so if more than one solo sound is happening, it can sound a bit wrong... but it's perfect for sampling solo accoustic instruments.... flutes, guitars, bells etc... and of course voices.

When you have encoded your sound, you can change the formant character by shifting it up or down... with a voice that will make it either more female or male and into extremes... but also the time of the sound is kept... so any sound with rhythmic content will keep the BPM thru the whole sound... and then pitch can also be adjusted... these three building blovks are independant of each other, and that's where the fun part lies.

But this is not all... these blovks can of course be modulated by dosens of controllers... LFO's, Keynote, Wheels etc... Envelopes... basicaly there is no limits here. This is the basic oscillator settings for a sample.

You have two oscillators you can assign like this... totaly independant of each other, and these are then combined using different algorithms like simnple mix, FM, Ringmod and other types...

This then goes thru two COSM processors... these are per voice, and basicaly they are FX engines with stuff like distortions, filters, frequency shifters, decimators etc.

Then all that goes thru a VCA, and then finaly into an advanced FX section with three multi effects.

You can also configure these buildingblocks in different routings... and on top of that, you can add something called AP synthesis which is basicaly a kind of physical modelling behavior.

The possibilities are mind boggling to be honest... you also have VA synthesis that you can choose instead of a sample oscillator with dosens of waveforms.

But that's not all... this "block" is just ONE of two... you have an UPPER and LOWER block that are completely identiccal but separate fully... this allow for splits, stacks etc...

Strangely enough, even though this synth has so much power, it's extremely logicaly laid out, and very easy to program.

I can certainly say, that this machine is truly unique... there are nothing like it in hardware that I know of, and playing with formant really puts this in a totaly different league than any other sampler... just the way you can "play" thru a vocal sample with phrases in it is incredible... you can litteraly play it a bit like scratching, even playing the phrase backwards, stop it totaly for a freeze in the middle of a wovel.

Sometimes it does screw up the encoding of some samples.. where it "hickups" between different octaves in the sound playing back... but then you have two other encoding options that allow these sounds to work anyway, but just without formant control... good for loops and huge ensemble sounds etc.

When I look at the architecture of the V-Synth GT I see many resemblances to the LA synthesis that Roland put in their very famous older synth D-50... in fact I'd call the V-Synth a D-50 make II because it has the same elements basicaly... the samples and VA synthesis is also present in D-50... D-50 also had algorithms for mixing the two oscillators via FM, ringmod etc... and then the FX sectiion.... and the fact that the first version of the V-Synth actualy had a D-50 emulator on card/built in also hints that there are references to the D-50.
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Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2015, 12:15:54 PM »
Thanks for the comprehensive answer, Razmo!

Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2015, 09:55:29 PM »
Everyone should have a V-Synth Paul, Christmas is coming...

Re: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2015, 09:57:53 PM »
Everyone should have a V-Synth Paul, Christmas is coming...

Aaaargh, but I need to finish saving up for a Prophet-6 first …  ;)