Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...

LoboLives · « **Reply #860 on:** November 25, 2018, 04:55:14 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on November 25, 2018, 12:36:48 PM

OK... I did it... again... the old love/hate relationship always end with me running back to her: Tempest...

I found a good deal on a used specimen, like new for almost half the price of a new one, so I'm happy with that.

I really need a performance.minded drummachine these days after I decided to go non-MIDI with my synths... i was thinking about using a Prophet X for this earlier, but I realized it would be a pain in the neck to reord in full percussion tracks in one go, and as it probably do not have an overdub function, it will not work like I intended... i simply need a drummachine with good performance control, where I can fire off single patterns of grooves, and shift between these "beats" on the fly while I tweak parameters live.

I believe that Tempest is the best solution because I cannot live without an editor for creating the kit sounds, and I already have that for SoundDiver from last time I had it, so i can get right on it when it's here one of the next days.

So my next project will be creating kits for it for the next 6 months while i save up for a Prophet X.... I'll be making a separate thread in the Tempest forum on that topic, with demo's just like with my REV2 bank, and when it's done it'll be up for sale as well...

My plans for my studio is to have three synths connected to my soundcard at once... one with keys, and via a MIDI split cable connect this to two modules to be located right behind the keyboard... this MIDI cable will only serve as a clock output for the two modules so that I can sync these three machines up to each other... one such machine is now Tempest, but I'll probably get more synths in the future, but there will only be three connected at any given time to have a better overview of the stuff that i make, so that it does not get too complicated...

So yes... I'm back in the Tempest game again, with all the quirks and stuff... but at least I know what I'm going into...

Tempest will always be a mainstay for me. I almost always use the onboard samples for drums in my work and midi out the synth voice to do bass lines on my Moog, Oberhiem or whatever. The arpeggiator is really useful as I found when you have a Mono timbral synth like the OB6 or P6 you can midi out the synth voice to the lower half of the keyboard doing an arpeggiated pattern while still being able to play chords or a lead on the higher keys. It’s also great when you set it to random and hold a few drum samples, it creates some really interesting beats for you.

More recently though I’ve started to use the Tempest to do background synth sequencing which sounds great. I can’t wait to see what Roger Linn comes up with next, regardless tho...I don’t think I’d get rid of the Tempest. I was looking another drum machine to compliment it but haven’t heard anything sound wise that blew me out of the water.

Razmo · « **Reply #861 on:** November 25, 2018, 11:23:31 PM »

Yes, I read that Linn is working on a drummachine, but I bet it'll be digital and around samples... Two of the most appealing factors of the tempest is still that it is analog, but also that it is deep in its engine... I know of few drummachines that use a synth voice for engine... Waldorf Rack Attack is, but its digital and have very few samples to boot. The Tempest engine is a sound designers dream and it allows for many many more timbres than any other analog drummachine out there today.

I decided not to wait for something new in this category because I don't think I will ever see one in the near future... Dave wont be doing a Tempest 2, I simply do not think he want to deal with such a task again

Jan Schultink · « **Reply #862 on:** November 26, 2018, 01:07:15 AM »

I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.

dslsynth · « **Reply #863 on:** November 26, 2018, 02:10:37 AM »

Quote from: Jan Schultink on November 26, 2018, 01:07:15 AM

I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.

Wise words, thanks!

Razmo · « **Reply #864 on:** November 26, 2018, 02:37:23 AM »

Quote from: Jan Schultink on November 26, 2018, 01:07:15 AM

I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.

I'm probably a bit aparte from the majority... I agree that it's about sequencing and live tweaking, but that does not mean that a synth engine that is deep is not interresting, especially if you're not just searching for the standard 4 on the floor type of kick, snare and hihat sounds... that is EXACTLY why i prefer the Tempest... because it's engine lets me create a hell of a lot more timbres than just your standard "RYTM" drummachine... I simply find those too limiting.

On the other hand, if that standard type of sounds is what you really want, then i can understand why some people would not want the Tempest... it takes longer to come up with proper percussion sounds because you need to tweak more deeply to get them... so timewise, Tempest is not all that easy... but timbral flexibility is the force of the Tempest, and that is exactly what I want... I want to create kits that sound like no other drummachine out there will be able to recreate... not because i can, but because i need those kind of sounds... Ambient is all about experimentation and weird noises

Razmo · « **Reply #865 on:** November 26, 2018, 02:49:43 AM »

I'd say, that the only thing I could want as a feature on the Tempest was a build in FX unit... that way i could have made kits that are complete out of the box... when I do my drumkit banks in the future, I'll also be making them dry and without FX so that they will run "out of the box" like I do with my REV2 bank... but there will allways be the need for external processing on the Tempest unfortunately... I'm still thinking about how I want to actually deal with that... but as i see it now, I'll just try to tweak as much "FX" out of the box as i can by using some tricks, and then simply leave it to the user to decide if they want to plug a separate out into an external FX to spice the kits up.... in reality, there is no other way to do this...

In many cases, you would want a delay or verb on some of the percussion sounds, but the kick is usually prefered dry... many times it sounds pretty good having everything thru a delay except for the kick sound... but this can be simulated using a master delay/reverb if you just make sure that no low-end comes either into the FX engine, or out of it... that will isolate the bass frequency, but effect everything else... so I am to experiment with this approach first... if that works, using the individual outs will not be necessary, and then both the distortion and compressor can be effectively used on the main signal as well... no need to make things more complicated than necessary.

LoboLives · « **Reply #866 on:** November 26, 2018, 01:54:50 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on November 26, 2018, 02:37:23 AM

Quote from: Jan Schultink on November 26, 2018, 01:07:15 AM
I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.

I'm probably a bit aparte from the majority... I agree that it's about sequencing and live tweaking, but that does not mean that a synth engine that is deep is not interresting, especially if you're not just searching for the standard 4 on the floor type of kick, snare and hihat sounds... that is EXACTLY why i prefer the Tempest... because it's engine lets me create a hell of a lot more timbres than just your standard "RYTM" drummachine... I simply find those too limiting.

On the other hand, if that standard type of sounds is what you really want, then i can understand why some people would not want the Tempest... it takes longer to come up with proper percussion sounds because you need to tweak more deeply to get them... so timewise, Tempest is not all that easy... but timbral flexibility is the force of the Tempest, and that is exactly what I want... I want to create kits that sound like no other drummachine out there will be able to recreate... not because i can, but because i need those kind of sounds... Ambient is all about experimentation and weird noises

What I did was gather all the LM1 samples, LinnDrum samples, Boss DR55 samples, 808 samples, 909 samples and Tom Cartridge samples and saved them in their respective collections as beats but with no pattern attached to them. I even organized them on the pads to mimic their placement on the original machines. It really helped me just quickly grab the drum machine sound I want for a composition. I really only use the analog engine for bass sounds or incidental sequencing stuff.

Razmo · « **Reply #867 on:** November 26, 2018, 03:42:51 PM »

Quote from: LoboLives on November 26, 2018, 01:54:50 PM

Quote from: Razmo on November 26, 2018, 02:37:23 AM
Quote from: Jan Schultink on November 26, 2018, 01:07:15 AM
I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.

I'm probably a bit aparte from the majority... I agree that it's about sequencing and live tweaking, but that does not mean that a synth engine that is deep is not interresting, especially if you're not just searching for the standard 4 on the floor type of kick, snare and hihat sounds... that is EXACTLY why i prefer the Tempest... because it's engine lets me create a hell of a lot more timbres than just your standard "RYTM" drummachine... I simply find those too limiting.

On the other hand, if that standard type of sounds is what you really want, then i can understand why some people would not want the Tempest... it takes longer to come up with proper percussion sounds because you need to tweak more deeply to get them... so timewise, Tempest is not all that easy... but timbral flexibility is the force of the Tempest, and that is exactly what I want... I want to create kits that sound like no other drummachine out there will be able to recreate... not because i can, but because i need those kind of sounds... Ambient is all about experimentation and weird noises

What I did was gather all the LM1 samples, LinnDrum samples, Boss DR55 samples, 808 samples, 909 samples and Tom Cartridge samples and saved them in their respective collections as beats but with no pattern attached to them. I even organized them on the pads to mimic their placement on the original machines. It really helped me just quickly grab the drum machine sound I want for a composition. I really only use the analog engine for bass sounds or incidental sequencing stuff.

Well... my goals will be a bit different... I'd be wanting to seriously use the analog oscillators for creating dynamic percussion, as I've always found samples to be a bit too static unless they are samples of real percussion instruments that are impossible to synthesize anyway, and still I'd be mangling them in the synthesis engine... using the oscillators will make the sounds less static... but of course it depends on what you want with the sounds... In fact I do not think I'll be using any of the samples in their raw state... I'll use them to spice the analog side up instead... point is, that the kind of percussion I'd want for my projects are so experimental that there will not be any in the samples anyway... so again; I'll have to make my own.

The bank I'll be doing will also not have any patterns build for them at all... as with the REV2's polysequencer, they will be empty, simply because I find that I will always want to create my own patterns anyway... I'm not a big fan of using other artists creations, I'd rather make my own and be unique.

Razmo · « **Reply #868 on:** December 01, 2018, 04:27:06 AM »

I got my TEMPEST again some days ago, and as some of you who have looked in the TEMPEST forum already know, I managed to brick it pretty quickly, trying to update it to the latest OS... the TEMPEST obviously do not have a bootloader function, so right now I'm waiting for a replacement board to arrive from Sequential, so that i can get it up and running again... the time off, has made me think a bit about how I want to go about designing sounds for the TEMPEST, and how i want to be using it... how to organise the BEATS in it...

I know very well from my earlier dealings with the TEMPEST, that you have to really work around some "things", especially if you want consistency in the transients, so I want to be planning ahead with this in mind, and also a few "problems" regarding individual processing of sounds...

To be able to achieve consistency, each drumsound need to be assigned to a single voice... this improves it quite a lot, but you still have some inconsistency when more than one sound use the same voice... i bet this is because the TEMPEST has to reset every sound parameter when two voices that use the same voice, has to be switching between the two sounds... that is; if you hit the same pad all the time, you have no inconsistency, but if you then hit another pad, it will on the first hit sound a little bit different to any following hits of the same sound... simply because CVs has to settle to new values etc...

The only way to remedy this is if yuo asure that one sound alone is allocated to a particular voice... in other words, you limit yourself to 6 drumsounds in a beat, all of them using their own voice... in that case you cannot get more consistent really... this sounds like a total waste of up to 32 sounds... but I intend on expanding the number of sounds to 12... double up so to say... each drumsound will have an "accent" sound in addition... in that case, those two use the same voice, and since they are usually rather close in nature, the inconsistency would be a lot less... say: Kick and Kick with long decay... long/short snare... Open/Closed Hat... High/Low tom etc. etc...

I intend on placing these six sounds on the lower left row of pads, and their accents exactly above which seems most logical... the two pads left over at the lower and upper row at the right side I do not know what to do with yet, but I'll figure that out.

Another reason to do it this way is to overcome another problem... you do not have 32 individual outputs... when you start to assign more than one sound to the same output, the harder it gets to individually FX any drumsounds. With my plan, having only 6 sounds each with an accent, any of the sounds will get it's own separate output, not sharing it with any other sound... in essense, I'm creating a kind of "hardwired" drummachine... almost like a 6 track/sound drummachine with individual outs for every sound... on top of this I get the best consistency I can get, and really... you do not need polyphony in a drummachine anyway.

This means that if you want to use the built in distortion and compressor, you simply do not plug any cable into the individual outs, and when you need external processing, you simply plug in a cable for whatever of the 6 drumstrack sounds you want.

I know it's a waste of the 32 sounds, but I intend on using sound bank B for a variation kit on all my BEATS... that leave only 8 wasted sounds, but I can live with that.

In my point of view, the TEMPEST should have been made a lot more simple... i actually think it would have been better if it was made with this "one voice per sound, on it's own output"... it would have made it much more logical in it's layout... the synth engine should have been left out completely... that task is for real synthesizers, and it only takes up codespace, and complicates the code even further... but hey... TEMPEST is what it is, and it's a cool sounding drummachine, especially when you know how to work around the quirks and remaining bugs.

Back to my plans... earlier I wanted to just make sounds... these days i can see the usefulness of dropping the individual sound approach and instead focus on crating BEATS instead (or rather KITS, which is the right term for this). I want to be able to have kits where all sounds fit together at the get go, where levels and BEAT FX has already been set up... sure you may want to change something, but then it's easier to just tweak the BEAT sounds, or load individual sounds if you want something else, instead of having to start from an initialized BEAT every time, and load every single sound from scratch... SO I'm really appreciative of the way Dave and Roger has organised the memory of their structures... that a single BEAT has all of the 32 sounds "built in", and not just pointing to sounds... that's a HUGE plus with the TEMPEST!

I also want the KITS (I'll call them kits from now on because i really find the name "BEATS" confusing...) to be as modulateable in reatime as possible, so I want to make full use of the beatwide control the TEMPEST offer... also there will be NO sequences programmed because everyone would want to make their own rhythms anyway, and having to constantly erase the sequence tracks is just gong to be a pain in the neck... therefore; EMPTY! ... you be the creative part with the sequencing, I'll do most of the sound design

I'm not sure that my kits will be minded solely on Ambient because there really is not much rhythm in ambient music anyway... there would quickly be a lot of kits with thumping sounds anyway, so I'll probably focus these kits more at the experimental area...but certainly I'll focus on the weird and the wonderful more than on the boring cliches (think 808, 909 etc...) ... it's time to broaden peoples sense for percussion other than just the usual "four on the floor" type of approach... there is already plenty of options in that department out there... I'm certainly going to "rape" that AudioMod and AudioFeedback parameter for sure

that was a bit about my current plans for the TEMPEST.

BobTheDog · « **Reply #869 on:** December 10, 2018, 11:47:48 AM »

Another Tempest!

I don't look at the Tempest forum as it was getting me down so did you get it fixed?

Mines been disconnected for a while, looking at me in an accusing manner but I can't bring myself to sell it.

Razmo · « **Reply #870 on:** December 10, 2018, 11:56:10 AM »

Quote from: BobTheDog on December 10, 2018, 11:47:48 AM

Another Tempest!

I don't look at the Tempest forum as it was getting me down so did you get it fixed?

Mines been disconnected for a while, looking at me in an accusing manner but I can't bring myself to sell it.

Yes!... another go with it... but this time in a bit different way

... I have the replacement board coming in two days, and then it will be replaced... will be nice to get a bit away from the REV2 when my soundbank is done for it... and yes... it's hard to get rid of this quirky drummachine, I know ... it's my third time around with it... maybe I should give it a woman's name

dslsynth · « **Reply #871 on:** December 10, 2018, 12:25:16 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on December 10, 2018, 11:56:10 AM

it's my third time around with it...

In case anyone wondered why I linked to this video previously:
https://youtu.be/VoAMs5pH--0?t=92

Wishing you a pleasantly wild journey!

BobTheDog · « **Reply #872 on:** December 11, 2018, 01:18:30 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on December 10, 2018, 11:56:10 AM

maybe I should give it a woman's name

Maybe Sycorax?

Razmo · « **Reply #873 on:** December 13, 2018, 10:18:21 AM »

Quote from: BobTheDog on December 11, 2018, 01:18:30 PM

Quote from: Razmo on December 10, 2018, 11:56:10 AM
maybe I should give it a woman's name

Maybe Sycorax?

How the hell did you find that name!?

... i had to look it up, and it's obviously a hag in a play called Tempest... a hag is a fantasy creature as well, so yes! ... her name will be Sycorax! ... I think I'll name a patch that!

Razmo · « **Reply #874 on:** December 13, 2018, 10:41:32 AM »

Well... I've been thinking quite a lot about my coming purchase of a Prophet X lately, and i actually think that I'll pass this sampler/synth... there are several reasons for this, but my main reasons are as follows:

1. I intended on creating a lot of multisampled (deepsampled) instruments from both microphone (various acoustic stuff) and synthetically created sounds via different .wav generation apps... now I've been editing ssamples thru my last 25+ years, and (if I may say so) are quite skilled at it... but I also know, that it's one HELL of a lot of work, if you are as perfectionistic as i am... looping samples seamlessly, and for every sample on every key will simply be a nightmare beyond what I'd ever end up finishing.... also choosing what to use among potentially an unlimited amount of samples is something I'm not good at... i tend to want it all, completely blowing any healthy overview of the projects away... this has happened every time I've had a sampler... so i doubt it will be any different with a Prophet X... If I am to use samples again, it must be synths that has ROM samples, so that all has been done for me... like the Tempest for example.

2. I thought about WHY I really wanted samples... most of what i wanted to do was to use generated samples... yes they can get complex, but in most cases, creating similar sounds with synthesis instead can provide the same, and with much more flexibility... i find that I probably wanted samples to jump the fence where it's lowest... so using samples will only make me more lazy... and inhibit me from honing my skills at synthesis instead... yes you can get complex tones that is probably impossible to do with a synthesizer, but this is mainly samples with organic qualities like voices, phrases etc... I can live without vocal samples... also because I'd have to use other peoples samples, which i do not want to... my music will be instrumental, and that's just the way it is.

3. The handling of samples... I'm a firm user of SysEx and like to be able to save my sounds in libraries in SoundDiver... with a sampler structure, including samples inside SysEx messages is impossible, which restrain my librarian functions... I do not like the idea of having programs and samples split in two like that... it gets too circumstancial.

4. The price is simply a bit too steep to my liking as well... I know it's probably worth the money, but I'd get more from getting a Prophet 12 or even a PEAK instead (though I'd have to take a VERY close look at the PEAK SysEx first, since I've read that it's a nightmare).

...So right now, my next aim is at a Prophet 12... would be cool if I had the money now so i could get me one of those last white editions, but they are probably gone by the time I have the money anyway... Maybe I'll have a wait and see what the replacement will be... only time will tell.

I also got the replacement board for the Tempest today, plus a knob kit for it... unfortunately, one knob was missing so now I'm waiting for DSI to send me that ONE knob cap

... anyway, I'm looking forward to working with the Tempest in the coming months (when my REV2 bank is done)... and right now I'm actually glad that DSI never got around to making the samples in it overwritable... then I'd just have had the same problem with the Tempest, choosing and editing samples for it.

This also means that the Quantum is also out of the equation now... don't want to mess with the sample options there too... I'm officially done with sample editing from today... period... I'm the "synth guy"... 100%

Razmo · « **Reply #875 on:** December 13, 2018, 11:25:54 AM »

My last post here actually made me think about what I'd like to see from Sequential in the future, if they wanted to create a hybrid ROM'pler... I'd actually really like to see such a synth, but the choice in the samples available would have to be VERY VERY CAREFULLY created and chosen... not just simply throw the job to 8DIO because Dave do not want to deal with the sample editing.

With a synth like that, the samples should be carefully created building blocks, meant for sculpting sounds with them... that is; no acoustic sampled instruments or anything... it would need to be specific waveforms made for processing, like different types of noise, different waveforms with different partials in them... sustained tones that is perfectly looped to work as oscillators, just with much more harmonic content... formant waveforms sampled for all keys on the keyboard so that formants are held true no matter where on the keys you play them... completely eliminate chipmunk effects by sampling the waveforms on every key if they have any kind of modulation going on will eliminate the chipmunk effect... no need for velocity layers, they are meant for processing... for synthesis, so all velocity modulation can be done using the synthesis engine on the samples using filters etc.

It's basically just the Prophet X with it's two Instrument oscillators, samples carefully prepared on a ROM/FLASH without any ability to erase the samples... take out the digital oscillators and simplify the user interface... and a drop on the price

If such a synth was available, it would be on my list immediately...

SandyS1 · « **Reply #876 on:** December 13, 2018, 01:03:00 PM »

Hmmm...that almost sounds like the old Korg DWGS waves. They weren't sampled, though, they were resynthesized IIRC, but they produced clean single-cycle waves with various harmonic content and fed it through SSM filters. The modern equivalents are the Modal 002 and the Peak. The 002 has 50 or so waveforms, including some from the PPG, but no interpolated wavetables. The Modal's advantage is the variable-mode filter, which sounds wonderful. Neither of them should alias, since they both use numerically-controlled oscillators. The Peak has actual wavetables and is MUCH less expensive.

That may not be what you're getting at, but that's what your wishlist reminded me of.

Razmo · « **Reply #877 on:** December 13, 2018, 02:28:51 PM »

Quote from: SandyS1 on December 13, 2018, 01:03:00 PM

Hmmm...that almost sounds like the old Korg DWGS waves. They weren't sampled, though, they were resynthesized IIRC, but they produced clean single-cycle waves with various harmonic content and fed it through SSM filters. The modern equivalents are the Modal 002 and the Peak. The 002 has 50 or so waveforms, including some from the PPG, but no interpolated wavetables. The Modal's advantage is the variable-mode filter, which sounds wonderful. Neither of them should alias, since they both use numerically-controlled oscillators. The Peak has actual wavetables and is MUCH less expensive.

That may not be what you're getting at, but that's what your wishlist reminded me of.

Yeah... it's basically that, just that the samples are of course much longer to allow for better textural content... the DWGS waves or the like was very very short, and that's not what I'm after alone... but it would be essential to include such types of samples as well of course.

I actually like the Prophet X idea, where each note on the keyboard have it's own sample... so that no sample is in fact transposed... this allow for the samples to be of a very high quality all over the keyboard... on typical samplers, where samples are pitch shifted, the quality degrades the longer you transpose from the root note of the sample, and also speed it up or slow it down... these problems are completely gone when each key has its own sample... the only drawback is that GLIDE is not possible because of this... but using this "sample per key" scheme, any Instrument you create would be of utmost quality, and you would be able to maintain formants and the speed of modulation in the samples up and down the keyboard... this would totaly eliminate that typical "sample feel" of traditional samplers... add one simple feature to allow for the sample to loop continuously without restarting at each keypress (a free running oscillator), and you will also eliminate that static sample feel when the transient is always the same... that is also why the samples need to be loop textures and waveforms so that it's not sounding weird... I'd really like to see a hybrid ROM'pler with this synthesis in mind... almost like a sort of looped Mellotron approach.

megamarkd · « **Reply #878 on:** December 13, 2018, 04:57:05 PM »

Quote from: SandyS1 on December 13, 2018, 01:03:00 PM

Hmmm...that almost sounds like the old Korg DWGS waves. They weren't sampled, though, they were resynthesized IIRC, but they produced clean single-cycle waves with various harmonic content and fed it through SSM filters. The modern equivalents are the Modal 002 and the Peak. The 002 has 50 or so waveforms, including some from the PPG, but no interpolated wavetables. The Modal's advantage is the variable-mode filter, which sounds wonderful. Neither of them should alias, since they both use numerically-controlled oscillators. The Peak has actual wavetables and is MUCH less expensive.

That may not be what you're getting at, but that's what your wishlist reminded me of.

I've played with a Peak in the store and it's an amazing sounding machine, reminded me of my XTk a hell of a lot but somewhat thicker, possibly due to the analogue filter and VCA's in it. Very tempting....

Razmo · « **Reply #879 on:** December 14, 2018, 01:09:11 AM »

PEAK has tempted me ever since it was released... But the secrecy of the SysEx and weird MIDI control people are talking about is keeping me back. It is the only real contender to the P12 module right now... It lacks some things in comparison though... Four voices and dual layers... P12 on the other hand lacks built in reverb...and multimode filter.