Razmo's Gear Rant Thread...

chysn · « **Reply #600 on:** March 24, 2018, 08:13:51 AM »

Yeah, clearly you've thought it through well, and it looks great.

If Studio Electronics released a semi-modular synth of the same size with (for example) their SEM, would you go one 2600 and one SEM?

Razmo · « **Reply #601 on:** March 25, 2018, 12:49:59 AM »

Quote from: chysn on March 24, 2018, 08:13:51 AM

Yeah, clearly you've thought it through well, and it looks great.

If Studio Electronics released a semi-modular synth of the same size with (for example) their SEM, would you go one 2600 and one SEM?

I assume you mean another tonestar instead of one of the two 2600s? ... I'd probably get any other Tonestar module that comes out because the different filters is an important thing to me in the sounds I want to make in my projects, especially as I have decided not to use anything digital besides FX and EQ... I actually planned on buying a 8105 Roland filter Tonestar, and I will get one... Maybe this will also be the next one i buy, mainly because I want the different filter flavours... And particular its hipassfilter is of interrest when doing snare and hihat sounds... But i also want two of the same type at some point, for true stereo applications... But I'd certainly want other filter flavours... Also, it could be other synth modules, but as the LIFEFORMS part of the synth will be stationary, it has to be one or two synth modules that fit max 64HP.

I have thought about combining a single semi modular desktop synth too, as i have space for a single one at any given time as I have a single MIDI I/O left... Most synth voices created comes in desktop versions, so if I want diversity I have to considder this option... The Pittsburgh Microvolt 3900 look interresting.

Razmo · « **Reply #602 on:** March 28, 2018, 03:24:58 AM »

After some long and hard thinking about the modular system, I decided that I would get the second TONESTAR 2600 module today. Two such modules working as "oscillators" should be enough, so now I need to figure out exactly what else I will need in the rest of the space (40HP) that will complement these two the best in my case.

I will not need any kind of stereo processing FX as this will be the DAWs duty to handle... most flexible solution.

I know that one thing that will be dearly missing in this setup is some randomness for FX and other stuff, so I went on the hunt for a dedicated random module and found the Steady State Fate - URA (Ultra Random Analog) module which is stuffed with different and crazy randomness... this module is a bit of a "all in one randomness" module which suits me perfectly... I almost decided on the Make Noise Wogglebug which is also pretty cool, but the SSF module won the day, mainly because it seems more feature packed, and I like the design a lot better than Make Noise stuff... honestly I hate the Make Noise design... the faceplates are filled with blinking strange lights, weird symbolic drawings, arrows going in all directions and unreadable text in general... no I REALLY do not like their design :/

About the TONESTAR number two, I decided to get the same one as I already got... i was really in doubt if I should get the other one with the Roland filter because it has an extra hipass filter and different filter tone, but I'd rather get two of these to swap out for different projects in the future.

The reason I want the same one is that I intend on routing them to left/right outputs for some serious stereo processing... it opens up a lot of stereo potential using them this way... panning, wide stereo perspectives and other crazy swirly stereo applications when starting to modulate the two modules independently... and if I want to, I can also use them in series, even without the need of another audio mixer since the output of one TONESTAR can be mixed directly into the other, either pre or post filter, and even pre or post the VCA as well, allowing for some cool routing options. At the same time, the KB37 allow me to use them in paraphonic mode if I want to... I could omit the buffered multiple I've got, but I'll keep it in mainly because the URA module can also function as a trackable squarewave oscillator, so it needs the 1V/O connection in some cases.

And this is why I chose the URA module:

First off, it has two build in analog noise sources that it uses for it's two sample & hold circuits. This frees up the two noise sources on the TONESTAR modules for sound generation instead of using these in a barebone S&H circuit. Both S&H units can take in external source material though. One of the S&H engines has a slew generator as well for smoothing out the random value.

Having two different random values are perfect with the two TONESTARs because it will allow for cool stereo modulation, but the URA even has a third random output derived from toggling between sampling the first and second S&H output... in addition it has two more types of random generation based on the two S&H engines... one of these (a vactrol based smoothing random generator) takes the input of a random gate/trigger output (yes it also has a random gate/trigger function) and creates random triangle based control voltages from them... the other is a complex flux random generator that will make slow random fluctuations from the second S&H unit... a bit hard to explain, but it can move up and down randomly in a slow manner, and even be configured to do so only in one side of a unipolar signal... so the module allows for some interesting random functionality even for bi and unipolar uses. To top it all off, the build in clock can be tracked with a 1V/O cv... yes it's that fast... this allow for use as a square wave oscillator... even the ranges in randomness of the random clock signal can be set in 7 different ranges... this allow the output from the random clock generator to not only work as a square oscillator, but also a digital noise generator when going into audio range... the divisors in random range gives the noise some very pleasant tonal qualities which will be cool for doing percussion sounds too. And of course a lot of the parameters can be CV modulated... this module is a power house of randomness, and it will definitely serve me well in all things random and chaotic

Razmo · « **Reply #603 on:** March 31, 2018, 04:31:48 PM »

I'm quitting linking to ModularGrid because my setup changes so fast, that it's already outdated for the post I'm linking from

... it does take some time to find the best solution, but I think I'm about there now... at least when it comes to the KB37 which will be my main sound generating system.

It simply consist of five modules... a buffered multiple, three TONESTAR 2600's and a new mixer module in the end, that I just ordered.

The ideer is still to have three "layers" made from three TONESTAR 2600, and then use these in any combination possible for creating the sound itself... I'll be buying Doepfer 48HP black cases that I can put on top of each other on each side of my KB37, all the way up to 5*48HP on each side if needed... this gives the best solution (I've checked all possible solutions carefully on the net first) because it's not skiff restricted in depth, has built in power comes in black, and can be stacked... and everything is within reach of both my hands and the KB37 for patching.

The new mixer module I just bought was a bit expensive compared to the Doepfer mini mixer I had previously (but sent back)... I wanted something that could do CV crossfading and panning, along with simple mixing, and also allow for some performance crossfading/panning...

I found that SSF/WMD makes some rather flexible modules, in not too many HP which suits me nicely... I recently bought their random module and today I ordered their BLENDER module which does all of the criteria I just wrote for mixing/panning/crossfading.

The Eurorack GAS is slowly but securely growing here... I was warned... i know... I had to give in at some point or the setup will be too restricted for all of my ideers

BobTheDog · « **Reply #604 on:** March 31, 2018, 10:44:51 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on March 31, 2018, 04:31:48 PM

The Eurorack GAS is slowly but securely growing here... I was warned... i know... I had to give in at some point or the setup will be too restricted for all of my ideers

Let this thread be a warning to others!

Razmo · « **Reply #605 on:** April 01, 2018, 01:17:31 AM »

Quote from: BobTheDog on March 31, 2018, 10:44:51 PM

Quote from: Razmo on March 31, 2018, 04:31:48 PM
The Eurorack GAS is slowly but securely growing here... I was warned... i know... I had to give in at some point or the setup will be too restricted for all of my ideers

Let this thread be a warning to others!

Resistance is futile!

Razmo · « **Reply #606 on:** April 01, 2018, 10:09:45 AM »

Wanted to get some different filters in the future for my utility cases... found a used Erica dTech VCF very cheap so I decided to get it even though it could have waited... it's a rather configurable version of the Polivoks filter, and I think it has so much instability that it's a charm in itself... reason for it being cheap is that the guy who sell it, has been messing with the calibration knobs, and he cannot recalibrate it again to sound correct... I should be able to fix this, as I've got the DIY build instructions for it... so got this one when it was cheap, instead of waiting...

chysn · « **Reply #607 on:** April 02, 2018, 05:31:03 AM »

Quote

so I went on the hunt for a dedicated random module and found the Steady State Fate - URA (Ultra Random Analog) module which is stuffed with different and crazy randomness... this module is a bit of a "all in one randomness" module which suits me perfectly... I almost decided on the Make Noise Wogglebug which is also pretty cool, but the SSF module won the day, mainly because it seems more feature packed, and I like the design a lot better than Make Noise stuff... honestly I hate the Make Noise design... the faceplates are filled with blinking strange lights, weird symbolic drawings, arrows going in all directions and unreadable text in general... no I REALLY do not like their design :/

SSF/WMD is one of my top three or four favorite euro makers. They do a lot of interesting things, with a solid build, and they use space efficiently. Sometimes their panels seem a little too cramped, but it would be hard for me to part with my ModBox. I don't need lots of random stuff, so ModBox pretty much handles it (with noise source and S&H).

Make Noise is easily my favorite. My early reaction to their panel design was the same as yours. But once I learned to love the modules, I started to love their panels. But, a lot of people do re-face Make Noise modules with Grayscale panels.

Razmo · « **Reply #608 on:** April 02, 2018, 07:00:03 AM »

Quote from: chysn on April 02, 2018, 05:31:03 AM

Quote
so I went on the hunt for a dedicated random module and found the Steady State Fate - URA (Ultra Random Analog) module which is stuffed with different and crazy randomness... this module is a bit of a "all in one randomness" module which suits me perfectly... I almost decided on the Make Noise Wogglebug which is also pretty cool, but the SSF module won the day, mainly because it seems more feature packed, and I like the design a lot better than Make Noise stuff... honestly I hate the Make Noise design... the faceplates are filled with blinking strange lights, weird symbolic drawings, arrows going in all directions and unreadable text in general... no I REALLY do not like their design :/

SSF/WMD is one of my top three or four favorite euro makers. They do a lot of interesting things, with a solid build, and they use space efficiently. Sometimes their panels seem a little too cramped, but it would be hard for me to part with my ModBox. I don't need lots of random stuff, so ModBox pretty much handles it (with noise source and S&H).

Make Noise is easily my favorite. My early reaction to their panel design was the same as yours. But once I learned to love the modules, I started to love their panels. But, a lot of people do re-face Make Noise modules with Grayscale panels.

ModBox is also on my wish list for the future when I'm to get myself some LFOs... the random module does not provide any LFO's and I just know I'll be wanting more LFO's at some point

... they actually have a few more modules I'd like... the Toolbox is one of them.

Other manufacturers that I like are Intelijel and Happy Nerding, which both have some rather useful modules, especially some that manipulate two sound sources like FM AID, uMod and uFold, small but useful tools to wreak havoc with the standard analog waveforms for new timbres... these are also on my list.

Regardsing MakeNoise... yes... they have a lot of interresting modules as well, so if they have something I feel I need, I'll get them nonetheless... even if I do not like the design... design comes last after all...

But the modules I'll be going for first are waveform modulation stuff and some CV manipulation tools... filters too, but they can wait a bit... but it is hard to decide what comes first, and what comes next.

chysn · « **Reply #609 on:** April 02, 2018, 07:21:10 AM »

Quote from: Razmo on April 02, 2018, 07:00:03 AM

Other manufacturers that I like are Intelijel and Happy Nerding, which both have some rather useful modules, especially some that manipulate two sound sources like FM AID, uMod and uFold, small but useful tools to wreak havoc with the standard analog waveforms for new timbres... these are also on my list.

Intellijel is also at the top of my list. But for a wave folder, see also SSF/WMD's Ultrafold. I had this one for a while (before I got the Sputnik Dual) and it really shimmers, supposedly a bit less subtle than µFold. I also had µMod really early on, but I never really got along with the ring mod sound. But it also has logic functions, which is nice to have.

Razmo · « **Reply #610 on:** April 02, 2018, 09:57:01 AM »

Quote from: chysn on April 02, 2018, 07:21:10 AM

Quote from: Razmo on April 02, 2018, 07:00:03 AM
Other manufacturers that I like are Intelijel and Happy Nerding, which both have some rather useful modules, especially some that manipulate two sound sources like FM AID, uMod and uFold, small but useful tools to wreak havoc with the standard analog waveforms for new timbres... these are also on my list.

Intellijel is also at the top of my list. But for a wave folder, see also SSF/WMD's Ultrafold. I had this one for a while (before I got the Sputnik Dual) and it really shimmers, supposedly a bit less subtle than µFold. I also had µMod really early on, but I never really got along with the ring mod sound. But it also has logic functions, which is nice to have.

I'll make sure to check out the SSF one as well... I'll probably end up with the one with the most features, unless there is a drastic difference in the sound from one to the other that I like better.

I do like the atonal RingMod sound... as I'm going to work with layers from the three TONESTARs, I'll most likely shape the transient in some sounds, simply by taking a ringmod sound (or other ways of mangling some inharmonic textures) and shaping it into a "click" in the beginning... I've never been a fan of just molding some noise really... also RingMod sounds are perfect for creating hihats when you use it with a HiPass filter and can be used in lots of sound FX patches too... so I'm definitely going to get one....

The waveshaper has the advantage of staying "in pitch" which is why I want one of those for giving other waveforms than just sine/triangle/Sawtooth/Pulse... but also for using them as modulator for FM synthesis, or even as a source for a RingMod carrier/modulator.... in general I'm on the lookout for modules that can take two signals together and mangle them into something new at audio rates... this is also why I'm interested in the FM AID module from Happy Nerding... they also have a module that will make any single audio oscillator turn into a thick supersaw kind of sound which also loks quite interesting... though, this is just an in->out kind of module.

I know there is probably a lot more options out there, but these are the ones I've listened to in videos and like what I heard

Razmo · « **Reply #611 on:** April 05, 2018, 10:08:23 AM »

Just got my SSF - Ultra Random Analog module home... this is really a smorgasboard of randomness... and it's all so useful in each it's own way... you may think that having a normal S&H is enough, and maybe it is depending on your needs, and your other modules to complement, but if you need a contained random module with a lot of features, this is really it... it's hard to describe all it does, but when you start utilizing the different types of random flavours, you can definitely hear the potential of this module... it's not just "random" all of it... it is randomness in a very wide variety of ways, and you do not need any other module to go along with it... it has it all... random gates, random voltages, slew generator and other strange features... combined with my TONESTAR module alone, it will make it sound very different... from R2D2, to chirping birds over aggressive computer bleeps and bloops to bubbling analog "lava" or fairy dust tinkling... this module will do all I need when it comes to special FX that's for sure... this is NOT a module that will leave the building.

I'm waiting for the "Blender" module from SSF/WMD as well, and I'm already imagining modulating it's crossfade CV with inputs from two TONESTAR modules playing different stuff.... I'm beginning to understand the importance of modulation options in your Eurorack setup, but also another and maybe just as important aspect: routings.... Routings is what truly lets you mangle stuff up, and with these two aspects (modulation and routing) you finally get that these two are the alfa omega difference to an ordinary synthesizer... a deep DSI synth surely have modulation in abundance, but it's locked into a hardwired signal path and that is where the modular world really let it get interesting...

Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...

BobTheDog · « **Reply #612 on:** April 05, 2018, 11:37:45 PM »

Most modules seem to be sized to the size of the PCB/s, looks quite sizeable on the Maths:

Razmo · « **Reply #613 on:** April 06, 2018, 02:58:34 AM »

Quote from: BobTheDog on April 05, 2018, 11:37:45 PM

Most modules seem to be sized to the size of the PCB/s, looks quite sizeable on the Maths:

Yes... the skiff friendly ones usually look like that and are a bit wider because they place them parallel to the front panel, and sandwich them in most cases because the first panel houses all of the switches and knobs that leave no room on the PCB for the other components... but when using a sandwiched layout, it should be possible to narrow the panel a bit, since the only restraint is the size of the sockets, switches and pots... I can grasp that some people want spacing in between knobs, and for that MATHS does a good job... but it would be nice to have a more compact version of it as well... modular cases are quite expensive, so some people want the panels as narrow as possible without cramping them up totally... i just feel that MATHS could benefit from a more narrow version...

Then there are the skiff unfriendly ones where the PCB is running non-parallel to the frontpanel... these can of course get a lot narrower, but will allow for less control and sockets, and also the depth in the case is not very skiff friendly...

So it's a bit of a compromize what you choose I guess... in my case it seems that both types are important... KB37 has it's rightmost 15hp only capable of taking 2,5cm in depth at the bottom of the module (it rises the closer you get to the top of the module), and this does not allow for most modules to be there, not even skiff friendly ones (probably the most single irritating thing about the KB37)... in the rest of the HP space the depth is 6,5cm which is better, and there I prefer that the HP width is as small as possible... want to cram in as much as possible

By the way, what is that module you pictured? does not look like MATHS?

Razmo · « **Reply #614 on:** April 06, 2018, 08:47:57 AM »

Selling a lot of cables and rack equipment over the last week, from the last 25 years of gear hoarding has given me enough doe to purchase a small module that I've had my eyes on... I was originally most interrested in the SSF/WMD ModBox to get some advanced LFO options, but the dealer did not have this home, so I'll have to wait a bit for that one...

I recently had the Pittsburgh Reflector analog BBD analog delay module, but sent it back because I find analog delays too dark and smudgy with longer delay times... it does have a character of its own of course, but if you want to use the delay also for feedback tricks back into the audio path, I really want a clearer delay.... a digital delay line.

I've also wanted something to give some stereo perspective from a mono source... so I decided on the SSF/WMD DPLR module... it seems to do a lot in only 4HP when it comes to delays and even chorusing, and since the rest of my modulation units are from the same company, I found this a no brainer... it'll allow me to try out different feedback stuff between the two TONESTAR 2600 modules...

Honestly, the delays I like the best are the hybrid type... one where the delay itself is digital, but where you can take the delayed signal and feed it thru an analog filter before returning it into the delay to give sort of a semi-analog character... the DPLR also gives different direct feedback options that will cross the modulations L/R being able to get pingpong delays... I'm a BIG fan of pingpong delays and are very pleased this is also possible with the DPLR module...

I also recieved both the second TONESTAR today, and also the BLENDER module from SSF/WMD, so now my KB37 starts to look more complete... the hole in it is getting drastically smaller, which is both good and sad at the same time

Razmo · « **Reply #615 on:** April 06, 2018, 10:32:30 AM »

Found out that the DPLR module cannot output 100% wet... it will obviously always have 100% dry signal mixed into the delay which does limit it's use in external feedback routing somewhat... i wondered why SSF/WMD would make something like that, so I got suspicious if this is because of a limitation on the delay chip it's based around so I downloaded the datasheet for the delay chip..

..and it is a chip limitation... it will always output the dry signal from it's output as well as the delayed signal... this is in the way it's created... which is kind of a strange way really...

The signal goes into the chip ... in the analog domain this signal is mixed with the internal delayed sound which has been converted via a DA converter... that is, the dry input signal is mixed in the analog domain with the converted DA signal and sent directly out of the chip in the analog domain.

The dry signal is then converted in an on chip AD converter, and processed digitally... then it is converted again via internal DA which is then mixed with the analog signal at the input as described earlier...

This means that the dry signal is unaffected by the digital signal processing... this is good... and even the mixing is performed in the analog domain... also good... but even better:

the chip has two internal ANALOG LOWPASS filters... one is present right BEFORE the AD converter so that the input can be filtered... but the other filter is AFTER the DA converter in the end before being mixed with the dry input signal...

These two filters can be switched on/off, which explains why the DPLR module has four filter modes because that takes care of both filters which can be switched on and thus gives those four modes.

The drawback is that you cannot get only the delayed signal like I had hoped, but the good thing is that this module does not need to have it's feedback go to an external filter module to create those hybrid analog delays... the module has it's own analog LP filtering of the feedback (and even the input)... strangely the analog filter in the end is mixed BEFORE the input filter too... giving you effectively the chance to configure the filter as 12 or 24 db (provided the filters are not 6db ones, but 12db ones of course).

This makes this delay unit exactly what I wanted... a digital/analog hybrid delay unit... with the only drawback that it cannot send out only the delayed signal... but this may be partly bettered with the fact that with the pre filter on, the dry signal will at least be filtered a bit before I route it back into the system elsewhere... not the same, but I hope this will allow for some nice feedback options anyway...

Also this hybrid setup makes chorusing a hybrid chorus as well... so it's two hybrid FX in one here... and then of course in stereo (output)... quite an interesting module I think...

BobTheDog · « **Reply #616 on:** April 06, 2018, 12:43:21 PM »

Quote from: Razmo on April 06, 2018, 02:58:34 AM

By the way, what is that module you pictured? does not look like MATHS?

You are quite right it isn't, a slight senior moment there.

To keep it up how about:

So big it needs two power lines.

chysn · « **Reply #617 on:** April 07, 2018, 01:41:44 AM »

Quote from: Razmo on April 05, 2018, 10:08:23 AM

Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...

I have both a ModBox and Maths. Keep in mind that I've got 144HP of space, so Maths is a fairly large percentage of that, but it's definitely worth it. It's got attenuation for each channel, logic, an offset generator/attenuator/polarizer in the middle. It's also my system's only envelope generator.

The question of Maths's size highlights a trend in eurorack toward micro-everything. Open-source hardware modules like Mutable Instruments's digital stuff, and Ornaments and Crime, get made into smaller kits with more closely-spaced jacks and controls. This is fine, but I enjoy my synth more as a musical instrument when things are spread out a bit. I've had as many as 17 modules in my case. Now, I'm down to 12 because I've got big things like Moskwa, Phonogene, and Maths, that take up a lot of real estate, but are enjoyable to patch and play.

ModBox is one concession I've made to miniaturization, but that's because it's is so good. First off, the LFOs are sync-able, and you can choose whether one, both, or none, are synced. When an LFO is synced, the rate knobs act as dividers/multipliers. So you can have them cycle n times per trigger, or one time for every n triggers where n=1~16. It's great for creating polyrhythms.

ModBox also accurately tracks volt-per-octave for both channels, and runs at audio rates. In other words, it's a decent oscillator. It doesn't have a fine tune control, so it's a bit fiddly to get in tune; but once you do, it tracks very well.

And finally, they threw in a simple sample-and-hold circuit, whose trigger is normaled to once of the oscillators, and whose input is normaled to a noise source. All this, and yet it doesn't feel too cramped. I'd highly recommend it if you need a pair of LFOs.

See also Klavis Twin Waves. I've never had one, but I've considered it. It's an 8HP dual oscillator that goes to the LFO range, with a bunch of synthesis algorithms.

See also Tetrapad. I'm a huge Tetrapad fan, and I'll have two pretty soon in a separate control skiff. It's a wide 20HP, but it'll function as a quad LFO. The downside is that there's no CV in on the Tetrapad, so you can't modulate rate or anything.

See also Batumi, which is an enormously flexible quad LFO in 10HP. It might very well be the single best LFO module in eurorack. It's one of the few things I'd give up ModBox for if I could find the space. But my system is soon to have 14 potential LFOs, so I'm not exactly hurting in that department.

Razmo · « **Reply #618 on:** April 07, 2018, 05:34:35 AM »

Quote from: chysn on April 07, 2018, 01:41:44 AM

Quote from: Razmo on April 05, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...

I have both a ModBox and Maths. Keep in mind that I've got 144HP of space, so Maths is a fairly large percentage of that, but it's definitely worth it. It's got attenuation for each channel, logic, an offset generator/attenuator/polarizer in the middle. It's also my system's only envelope generator.

The question of Maths's size highlights a trend in eurorack toward micro-everything. Open-source hardware modules like Mutable Instruments's digital stuff, and Ornaments and Crime, get made into smaller kits with more closely-spaced jacks and controls. This is fine, but I enjoy my synth more as a musical instrument when things are spread out a bit. I've had as many as 17 modules in my case. Now, I'm down to 12 because I've got big things like Moskwa, Phonogene, and Maths, that take up a lot of real estate, but are enjoyable to patch and play.

ModBox is one concession I've made to miniaturization, but that's because it's is so good. First off, the LFOs are sync-able, and you can choose whether one, both, or none, are synced. When an LFO is synced, the rate knobs act as dividers/multipliers. So you can have them cycle n times per trigger, or one time for every n triggers where n=1~16. It's great for creating polyrhythms.

ModBox also accurately tracks volt-per-octave for both channels, and runs at audio rates. In other words, it's a decent oscillator. It doesn't have a fine tune control, so it's a bit fiddly to get in tune; but once you do, it tracks very well.

And finally, they threw in a simple sample-and-hold circuit, whose trigger is normaled to once of the oscillators, and whose input is normaled to a noise source. All this, and yet it doesn't feel too cramped. I'd highly recommend it if you need a pair of LFOs.

See also Klavis Twin Waves. I've never had one, but I've considered it. It's an 8HP dual oscillator that goes to the LFO range, with a bunch of synthesis algorithms.

See also Tetrapad. I'm a huge Tetrapad fan, and I'll have two pretty soon in a separate control skiff. It's a wide 20HP, but it'll function as a quad LFO. The downside is that there's no CV in on the Tetrapad, so you can't modulate rate or anything.

See also Batumi, which is an enormously flexible quad LFO in 10HP. It might very well be the single best LFO module in eurorack. It's one of the few things I'd give up ModBox for if I could find the space. But my system is soon to have 14 potential LFOs, so I'm not exactly hurting in that department.

Point is that I have to find a middle-ground for all of this... I've been toying with the idear of more cases by my KB37's sides that could be stacked, but we all know where this will lead... and one thing I think will pull me down is if I have to patch too much or even just the capability to do that... the initial ideer I had, where I wanted to have several modules, but configure only what could be inside my KB37 for a project seems more and more like the most reasonable way for me to go... and this is why it matters if the modules are too wide... I have 107HP to do with... so letting MATHS into this setup severely minimize what other modules I can put inside the KB37... I like the features of MATHS, but I will not buy one until it has been "compacted" I'm afraid... there are other smaller solutions even if they don't match MATHS 100%.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not hunting only small modules, but I want bang for the HP... I have two 32HP TONESTARS in there currently which takes a lot of the space, but they are so feature packed in variety that it's worth it...

The three SSF/WMD modules I've got are compact, but I do not find them hard to use really... in fact they are easily patched because all patch points are located beneath the knob area... this is how I like modules to be arranged...

I'll take a look at the modules you mentioned... think I already have considered the Batumi... seemed like a comprehensive module...

Razmo · « **Reply #619 on:** April 07, 2018, 05:54:46 AM »

Quote from: chysn on April 07, 2018, 01:41:44 AM

Quote from: Razmo on April 05, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...

I have both a ModBox and Maths. Keep in mind that I've got 144HP of space, so Maths is a fairly large percentage of that, but it's definitely worth it. It's got attenuation for each channel, logic, an offset generator/attenuator/polarizer in the middle. It's also my system's only envelope generator.

The question of Maths's size highlights a trend in eurorack toward micro-everything. Open-source hardware modules like Mutable Instruments's digital stuff, and Ornaments and Crime, get made into smaller kits with more closely-spaced jacks and controls. This is fine, but I enjoy my synth more as a musical instrument when things are spread out a bit. I've had as many as 17 modules in my case. Now, I'm down to 12 because I've got big things like Moskwa, Phonogene, and Maths, that take up a lot of real estate, but are enjoyable to patch and play.

ModBox is one concession I've made to miniaturization, but that's because it's is so good. First off, the LFOs are sync-able, and you can choose whether one, both, or none, are synced. When an LFO is synced, the rate knobs act as dividers/multipliers. So you can have them cycle n times per trigger, or one time for every n triggers where n=1~16. It's great for creating polyrhythms.

ModBox also accurately tracks volt-per-octave for both channels, and runs at audio rates. In other words, it's a decent oscillator. It doesn't have a fine tune control, so it's a bit fiddly to get in tune; but once you do, it tracks very well.

And finally, they threw in a simple sample-and-hold circuit, whose trigger is normaled to once of the oscillators, and whose input is normaled to a noise source. All this, and yet it doesn't feel too cramped. I'd highly recommend it if you need a pair of LFOs.

See also Klavis Twin Waves. I've never had one, but I've considered it. It's an 8HP dual oscillator that goes to the LFO range, with a bunch of synthesis algorithms.

See also Tetrapad. I'm a huge Tetrapad fan, and I'll have two pretty soon in a separate control skiff. It's a wide 20HP, but it'll function as a quad LFO. The downside is that there's no CV in on the Tetrapad, so you can't modulate rate or anything.

See also Batumi, which is an enormously flexible quad LFO in 10HP. It might very well be the single best LFO module in eurorack. It's one of the few things I'd give up ModBox for if I could find the space. But my system is soon to have 14 potential LFOs, so I'm not exactly hurting in that department.

That Klavis osc/lfo... to me it seems like it's a digital module, but it does not say this on ModularGrid... also, pots double in function as osc1 & 2 is set by pressing a button to select which one to edit... that is a complete no-go for me... i want 100% hands on ... but besides that, it does pack a lot of functionality into just 10HP... I'm a little sad it's not 100% hands on and analog... I'd have liked a small compact OSC/LFO module so that I could use it both as LFOs but also as oscillators if needed as an extra...

Batumi looks good, but it also looks digital... not that it matters, but I'd prefer as much analog as possible even if it means less features... that is because I'm trying to find a package that is both OSC and LFO... and as soon as a digital oscillator enters very high frequency they start to fall apart in aliasing ... I'd like to stick as much as possible to analog variants... also I don't need 4 LFO's rather two is enough, and since the ModBox is narrower this is still my prefered module...