Negative EG filter mod feature request

Negative EG filter mod feature request
« on: October 24, 2021, 01:31:58 PM »
The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.

Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.

Is this possible since the envelopes are software?

Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?

Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2022, 10:30:48 AM »
The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.

Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.

Is this possible since the envelopes are software?

Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?

Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.

Still think this would be great!

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2022, 12:59:22 PM »

Yeah, if it´s possible, why not   ???
I remember my old KORG Trident had
that feature back in -82   8)

An "EG Sensitivity" knob, at 12 o'clock "0", full
counter clockwise "-5 ", full clockwise "+5".
Got some useful sounds out of it  ::)


Cheers !
1976 MiniKORG700s // 1978 Prophet-5 rev.2 // 1981 KORG CX-3 // 1984 DX7 // 2020 Prophet-10 rev.4 // MoPho Box // 2 Creamware MiniMax // Creamware Pro-12 // 2 EMU-Proteus 2000 // EMU-Vintage Keys  // Casio VZ-10M // Roland VK-8M // Fatar SL 880 //

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2022, 08:06:09 AM »
I would like to see that being implemented as well.

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2022, 10:18:20 PM »
You have to remember what the P-5 is about.  Negative EG's are great and are on the other Prophets.  However, part of the art of sound design are the limitations placed on you by the instrument.  Dave Smith did about all he could do on a Rev. 4 and keep it true to the P-5 heritage.  IMO, he did a masterful job.  The feature set of the P-5 will keep the sound designer moving he direction of the original P-5.
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 5, Rev 4; Prophet 08; Pro 2; Prophet 12 module; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2022, 09:00:01 AM »
You have to remember what the P-5 is about.  Negative EG's are great and are on the other Prophets.  However, part of the art of sound design are the limitations placed on you by the instrument.  Dave Smith did about all he could do on a Rev. 4 and keep it true to the P-5 heritage.  IMO, he did a masterful job.  The feature set of the P-5 will keep the sound designer moving he direction of the original P-5.

I do see your point. These synths are about simple controls and straight to the point editing/playing, adding too much complexity would steer it away from the desired simplicity.

That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.

The bi-timbral option is also more complex than how I suggest a negative filter EG option could be implemented. You'd just hold preset and press the filter keytracking button to switch between positive or negative filter EG.

Adding this feature would be completely non-invasive to the authenticity of the original.

 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 09:01:49 AM by backdoorranky »

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2022, 09:16:21 AM »
It's strange that a lot of Prophet 5/10 reissue owners seem to be requesting a lot of features that are already available on the Prophet 6 and Prophet REV 2. I saw someone on this forum asking for an arpeggiator or sequencer to be implemented....at some point you either want an old school instrument and can accepted it for what it is or you have to move on.

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2022, 09:21:27 AM »
It's strange that a lot of Prophet 5/10 reissue owners seem to be requesting a lot of features that are already available on the Prophet 6 and Prophet REV 2. I saw someone on this forum asking for an arpeggiator or sequencer to be implemented....at some point you either want an old school instrument and can accepted it for what it is or you have to move on.

Arp and sequencer request for P5/10 is way over the top, though negative EG feature request as I suggest isn't at all. IMO it totally lends itself to having one since the envelopes are software.

g3o2

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2022, 10:12:34 AM »
out of curiosity, what kind of sounds can you do with a negative EG? also, negative time?? I can grasp the concept of a negative level though, or is it that which you’re actually referring to?

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2022, 10:21:04 AM »
out of curiosity, what kind of sounds can you do with a negative EG? also, negative time?? I can grasp the concept of a negative level though, or is it that which you’re actually referring to?

It's the same as the normal filter EG on the P5/10 but the voltage is inverted.

So instead of the filter opening up on key press, it closes on key press. The timing of the envelope mod amount is the same as whatever you set the filter ADSR to.

Negative envelopes have been around since the 70's. It's a simple feature that opens up much more sonic possibility.

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2022, 09:48:18 PM »

That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.


Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version).  https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html
« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 09:55:49 PM by jdt9517 »
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 5, Rev 4; Prophet 08; Pro 2; Prophet 12 module; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2022, 02:07:17 AM »

That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.


Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version).  https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html


Not really ....   The ORIGINAL P-10 was one keybed just like the new Rev 4 .
The two keybed version was / is "duo timbral" witch IMO isn´t "Poly"   ::)

Cheers !
1976 MiniKORG700s // 1978 Prophet-5 rev.2 // 1981 KORG CX-3 // 1984 DX7 // 2020 Prophet-10 rev.4 // MoPho Box // 2 Creamware MiniMax // Creamware Pro-12 // 2 EMU-Proteus 2000 // EMU-Vintage Keys  // Casio VZ-10M // Roland VK-8M // Fatar SL 880 //

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2022, 06:44:08 AM »

That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.


Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version).  https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html


Not really ....   The ORIGINAL P-10 was one keybed just like the new Rev 4 .
The two keybed version was / is "duo timbral" witch IMO isn´t "Poly"   ::)

Cheers !

The two keyboard version had a mode where you could stack both sounds on the same keybed. It also had a cool mode which alternated between the two engines with each note pressed.

How that isn't "poly" I have no idea.

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2022, 09:04:16 AM »

That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.


Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version).  https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html

I didn't know that, my mistake. Though I still think adding a negative EG mod is a great idea since it would be completely non-invasive to its original UI. Anybody who wanted pure original authenticity could still use it as is.

 I'm not a programmer, but I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to add, and it would add a lot to an already great synth.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 09:13:06 AM by backdoorranky »

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2022, 08:31:59 PM »
this would be a simple but huge feature add!  considering the other "adds" (like voice allocation modes or custom tuning etc), this seems reasonable and would open the synth up soooo much!

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2022, 06:40:13 PM »
It's strange that a lot of Prophet 5/10 reissue owners seem to be requesting a lot of features that are already available on the Prophet 6 and Prophet REV 2. I saw someone on this forum asking for an arpeggiator or sequencer to be implemented....at some point you either want an old school instrument and can accepted it for what it is or you have to move on.

Oh... you again, should have guessed.

Perhaps it's because, finally, sequential gave us a sound WORTHY of the Prophet name? And it would be nice to do just a little more with it, not too much, nothing over the top or intrustive. The simplicity is one of its charms, but the tone goes FAR beyond the Prophet 6 and Rev 2 (yeah I've owned both... the Rev 2 was just meh and the P6 was kinda weak and generic sounding). Prophet 10 rev 4 - 10 voices, amazing build, 5 octaves... GREAT sound, the best ever from sequential in modern times (OB-6 is great but Rev 4s just edge on clarity and presence of sound) so.. a few additions would be nice, shame to let such a great tone 'go to waste' when a few simple additions could make it even better.

And yes, even without all the P6 has it already IS better because it actually sounds like a full-fat VCO poly synth up there with its own past vintage and others of the time. Prophet 6 doesn't so it doesn't matter how many features it has.

I personally don't need or desire negative envs, I'd much rather they spruced up the LFO section with REVERSE SAW (hold SAW button down until it flashes) and LFO SYNC... very useful and oft-used additions that would make it more well rounded, also a HI RATE LFO switch (button hold + flashing light) to give it more legs.

Many of us owned rev 2s or P6s, or even Ob-6s, some still do while also having a P10.. or P5 it's not about complaining when synths that don't even sound like a Prophet 5 have 'more' and it's a bit childish to suggest that's the reason. It's about making the best of, easily, the best sounding synth Sequential have EVER released (in P10 with PU2/Stack or just free flowing 10 voices in round robin + 2 filter choices). They already have a number of hidden key presses so a couple more wouldn't hurt, but the lack of LFO sync is a bit of a pain (means drawing in CCs in the DAW to do that work) and a Rev saw LFO makes a ton of useful sounds.

Oh and don't forget, after many of us bought the Prophet 10... they went and retrofitted the 'vintage knob' code to the OB-6 and Prophet 6 (vast improvement over slop).. so the older synths got 'something' from the rev 4s, surely it's only fair that those who paid £4k for a simpler synth get a LITTLE something from the older synths back? Without this childish baiting of our reasons why we prefer the tone of the Prophet 10 over the DCO REV2 or the P6??

Sequential, please.. if you're reading, do take some of these requests seriously... there IS room for a few minor improvements to make these stunning synths even better and their users who dropped a LOT of money on them even happier.. it's not always fun seeing the lower priced synths have some SIMPLE things that can make a big difference... like the Rev saw, LFO HI RANGE and LFO SYNC.... not asking for you to somehow jam a sequencer and some FX in there but please consider these more sensible requests.. things that would make already the best modern analog poly even better and not add ANY complexity above what's already in there!

« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 06:53:56 PM by SynthHead »
Prophet 10 Rev 4 (Keyboard) | OB-6 (Keyboard)

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2022, 09:04:14 PM »
This would still be really good. Hold preset and press filter keytracking button to switch between + or - filter EG mod amount. I can't think of a better way. Sounds simple and intuitive to me

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2022, 04:30:28 PM »
I agree that both the negative EG modulation and inverted LFO saw would be great little additions without disturbing the original design ethos or going overboard. Both of those features are on the U-He Repro-5 as Tweaks, for good reason, in my opinion.

Kja

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2022, 12:13:49 PM »
In one of the interviews Dave specifically said that he was going to implement negative filter amount but then decided not to because he wanted it like this. To do it now after he has passed would be disrespectful and I seriously doubt the guys from sequential would ever do that.. if it was gonna have that it would. So good luck with that...

Re: Negative EG filter mod feature request
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2022, 12:27:58 PM »
Can you provide a source to this? I've never heard him mention this in any interview. I find it somewhat hard to believe Dave Smith would want to prohibit the Prophet 5/10 rev4 from ever having a negative filter envelope mod, especially because it would be completely non-invasive to the original experience (just like the nice Q-compensation update).

In one of the interviews Dave specifically said that he was going to implement negative filter amount but then decided not to because he wanted it like this. To do it now after he has passed would be disrespectful and I seriously doubt the guys from sequential would ever do that.. if it was gonna have that it would. So good luck with that...