Digital vs Analog synths, what's your excuse?

[Razmo]

In relation to another thread here, I'm starting this one to have a constructive talk about what we like, or do not like about the "two sides" in synthesizers. Personal preferences would be the most interesting to hear, instead of broad negative generalizations, but as I'm a true advocate for free speech, you're free to say whatever you want, just don't expect to be "right" 

Personally I'm not for or against any of the two sides... I have been previously, but with time I have realized, that both sides have their place, and that it all depends on personal preference, nostalgica, hype, genre, placebo and a multitude of other things.

I have both analog and digital (and hybrids) that I love equally much, because they are unique to my usage. I do mostly Ambient these days, and in particular Dark Ambient has my interest. This made me change my synth setup recently because I realized, that even though I have really expensive analog synths, that truly are nice sounding, some of them was not as useful for many reasons.

You can surely use monosynths for Ambient, but the lack of polyphony decrease their usefulness... sure you can do drones with them, deep sequencing basslines or eerie leads, but in general I find that I would benefit more from a polyphonic synth... I also have a set limit of eight synths in my studio, so I have to decide very carefully which instruments I choose to cover as large a spectrum of synthesis methods as possible. I'll surely miss the Sub37 sound... but it finds very little use these days.

When I decided to go for the Ambient scene, I actually started out, thinking that I'd do it with the analog and hybrids... but slowly I realized, that I "needed something more"... If I wanted weird horror-like vocals and FX, I realized I HAD to have a sampler of sorts... if I wanted really clangy bells I needed some FM synthesis... if I wanted no note stealing on huge pads, I needed lots of polyphony... I just realized, that I needed digital synths... synths that have very deep engines to be able to create sounds with lots of motion, ... engines that many analog synths do not have (exept DSI of course).

But that's not all... I also found that the more free patches available for a given synth, the bigger a pallette to give me inspiration... the thought of having to create every darn Ambient style preset from scratch just would not do it for me... so the synths also needed to have lots of patches for it, that lend themselves well for Ambient music to complement my own creations.

All these criteria has narrowed it down to these synths currently:

Clavia - Nord Modular G1 ... It has a HUGE library of sounds... more than 15.000, and many are very Ambient friendly... also this synth is deep beyond belief and can do things no analog would dare to try, unless you go modular with wires. Also, it will serve as a sound mangling device for my newly bought SONY PCM D-100 mobile recorder.

Waldorf - Blofeld ... This one was chosen for it's Wavetable synthesis, and ability to store 60MB of samples in flash memory... very deep engine, and has a huge library of sounds because it is compatible with the earlier Q and MicroQ synths.

Roland - Integra-7 ... The polyphony is huge... it packs an immense amount of ROMpler samples, and have the unique SuperNatural synthesis that I need for realistic acoustic instruments (as much as possible)... it also have a huge sound library. It saves me from having to create my own multisamples, as almost everything is covered in this synth.

E-MU - E4 Ultra sampler ... This is for the polyphony, and the ability to do very high quality sample playback... it will be used for all different situations needing custom samples for a project like samples of nature, sounds effects, vocals etc. specific to the project at hand.

These are the digital synths I've got thus far... and it should be rather obvious why I like these as well as analog synths, because they do things that no analog synth will be able to do.... I need this functionality to create Ambient music more easily.

I also have the DSI Poly Evolver, Prophet 08 and 12... these gives me the analog flavor I also like, but with really deep engines and polyphony... they also have sentimental value to me... I will not go into detail about them, as you all know them

now... why do YOU like exactly the synths you've chosen above others?

[chysn]

why do YOU like exactly the synths you've chosen above others?

This is a nice twist on a familiar topic. For you, it's all about having the right tools for the job. My job with synths is having fun with synths. It's fun to get what I want when I want it, and it's also fun to find unexpected new interactions.

The fact of the matter is, I've gone insane. I just discovered what I've been missing for forty-? years on earth. I was satisfied with modulation matrices, I thought they were flexible. I was okay with each module having one use. Control signals went somewhere to control something, and stopped there. Now these things make me feel confined.

So now, modular it is, for me. Little Phatty as a controller; its CV pitch Out is very well-calibrated, and it chips in two ASDRs and a modulation buss. The MicroBrute's CV capabilities rival the Little Phatty's. I have the Mother-32, but I might sell that off to expand my modular synth.

As for the modular synth, I'm selecting modules carefully. I'm building a musical instrument and not a noisemaker. But I want to try something out for a little while before getting another component.

There are digital modules, so it's not technically an analog-versus-digital thing.

Incidentally, I was trying to remember the most recently-produced digital instrument that I've owned. It was the Korg Prophecy, made 20 years ago. I always thought it sounded great, and I wouldn't mind going back and playing with one today. But, man, twenty years. I'm sure things have gotten way better in that time.

[Paul Dither]

I too don't choose my synths for a particular genre, since my taste is far too eclectic for that. But there are certainly a couple of pragmatic aspects I'd like to see covered by the majority of my gear. One of them being how well the instruments interact with my DAW, the other being a healthy balance between sound and features. Finally, there's the goal of having a complementary setup, which my three main synths - the Pro2, Prophet-6, and the Sub 37 - allow for. And then there's still Ableton in conjunction with Push 2, which I use for sample manipulation and granular stuff.

In that sense, I don't really have a preference other than I wouldn't wanna miss both. I think the Eurorack world is a good example for how much the analog vs digital debate has become rightfully de-ideologized, which I think is important. And it's indeed a world I plan to enter at some point, since it combines the hands-on approach I prefer with innovative designs that cannot be found in other hardware synths. Dreams I still have about my setup do include a Tom Oberheim Two Voice Pro just as much as a modular system that features a couple of Mutable Instruments modules (like Elements, Clouds, Rings, Tides), alternative rhythm generators (like Zularic Repetitor, René, Tempi), and multiple function modules like Make Noise's Math or Function. So as long as there's still stuff to discover as well as stuff I know I can rely upon in terms of sounds and features, I'm happy.

[tumble2k]

I have an inherent bias towards analog because I discovered high end audio before the CD became popular. I love the sound of vinyl on a quality turntable, and I put down the sound of a digital system (that usually costs 1/10 the price of the analog system I'm using).

The funny thing was that I have never owned a synth with an analog signal path until I bought a Prophet 08 last month. I love it because it's really easy to shape sound the way I want it.

My other synth is unapologetically digital: the Teenage Engineering OP-1. You can't beat it for the portability, and it sounds pretty decent. It's a ton of fun to noodle around with it in the dark after we've gone to bed. It's a private and intimate instrument, like a journal but also a powerful sound and music workstation without all of the complexity of the large workstations.

[Razmo]

why do YOU like exactly the synths you've chosen above others?

This is a nice twist on a familiar topic. For you, it's all about having the right tools for the job. My job with synths is having fun with synths. It's fun to get what I want when I want it, and it's also fun to find unexpected new interactions.

The fact of the matter is, I've gone insane. I just discovered what I've been missing for forty-? years on earth. I was satisfied with modulation matrices, I thought they were flexible. I was okay with each module having one use. Control signals went somewhere to control something, and stopped there. Now these things make me feel confined.

So now, modular it is, for me. Little Phatty as a controller; its CV pitch Out is very well-calibrated, and it chips in two ASDRs and a modulation buss. The MicroBrute's CV capabilities rival the Little Phatty's. I have the Mother-32, but I might sell that off to expand my modular synth.

As for the modular synth, I'm selecting modules carefully. I'm building a musical instrument and not a noisemaker. But I want to try something out for a little while before getting another component.

There are digital modules, so it's not technically an analog-versus-digital thing.

Incidentally, I was trying to remember the most recently-produced digital instrument that I've owned. It was the Korg Prophecy, made 20 years ago. I always thought it sounded great, and I wouldn't mind going back and playing with one today. But, man, twenty years. I'm sure things have gotten way better in that time.

I can certainly understand your interest in the modular world..,.. honestly I have been close to entering this area many times, but have managed to stay away with vigilance ... I also like the idear of such a system having no confinements, and with the growing number of digital modules, you are right... it's useless to put modulars into one or the other category... actually the only reason I never quite got there is, that I can not live without memories... sure I'd have the same thrill as anyone else, messing around with such a system, but I would feel frustrated when that "one first track" is laid down, and my head then starts to look for the next sound for track 2...3...4... etc... It would simply take me too long time to create the sounds to find it intuitive, and that would be a show-stopper for me... the day they invent a memory system for the modular world, I'll be in on it... but I don't think that would ever happen, and I'm certain that even the thought of that would make many a user of modular systems cringe in disgust

I also thought about your comment, that I'm looking for tools to do the job.... and yes, I have to admit that this is what I'm doing now, but it's not what I did previously... in fact I'm probably switching from a "collecting and playing around having fun" mindset like you, and into this "having fun and playing around, but need specially tailored equipment to do what I want" mindset, because previously all my choices was based mostly on the criteria that my synths SHOULD have some sort of analog part in the signal chain for it to gain my interest... digital synths did not catch my attention... I was having fun with analogs and hybrids, and that was the cause of my choices then. for me my instruments are NOT just a piece of tool to get a certain job done, i need to feel some "connection" with my synths as well, or I loose interest in them... the point is that my interest seems to change a little with the genre I am interested in, with the added favor of the sound of some analog parts in the signal chain.

I would ANY TIME I got the chance, replace a digital synth, with it's approximate analog hybrid version... thus, if DSI ever produce a sampler with analog filters and at least 8 voice polyphony, that would most likely replace the Blofeld, if it allow for wavetable creation as well.

The problem for me today is, that I certainly do like the sound of analog best... but I ended up with a bunch of synths that more or less all had the same features as analogs usually does the same thing: subtractive synthesis with small bells and whistles on top... Hybrids take this a little further by giving more options, and actually I find that the hybrids are the ones I like the best because of their ability to take the best of both worlds.

I think my problem is, that I like to play and mess around with mostly analog and hybrid synthesizers, as they catch my attention the most, but when I switch into productivity mode, after the first track has been laid down, the weakness of an all analog/hybrid system start to show... and unfortunately, I need both spirits to feel "happy"... I cannot live with just playing around never getting anything finished... and I cannot live with only producing for the sake of the product in the end... I need to have fun AND getting the job done too... and that really complicates it a lot ... yes I know I'm crazy, but that's just how I am he he...

[Bald Eagle]

For me it's not one or the other but the sum of the parts. I look at all of my synths as a part of one large modular rig each contributing something different. Having one or more of each type of synth provides many possibilities.


A digital workstation like the Kronos is great for sampled sounds and more. A Profit 12 fills the spot for a poly hybrid and a few Moogs add the analog flavor. A few iPad apps and VST's add a few more unique possibilities.


Sometimes a single synth will be used to create a patch while other times multiple ones will be combined to create a new sound not possible with just one. There are many times where adding an analog oscillator to an predominately digital patch adds a certain depth and warmth that just sounds right to me.

[chysn]

a modular system that features a couple of Mutable Instruments modules (like Elements, Clouds, Rings, Tides), alternative rhythm generators (like Zularic Repetitor, René, Tempi), and multiple function modules like Make Noise's Math or Function.

Rings has my attention, because I think it would be really fun with the DSM03, when the DSM03 finally comes out. The DSM03 would handle the plucked string, while Rings would model the resonator.

Function was the first module I owned, and it's amazing how many things it can do. It's very elegant. Maths is like two-Functions-plus-stuff, but lacks the Hold capability. Either one would be really interesting in conjunction with any other CV equipment.

actually the only reason I never quite got there is, that I can not live without memories...

I had some reservations about that, too. But then I started thinking about what I actually used patch memory for. Usually I'd save something for a specific recording, and then never come back to it. Things were saved, but it hardly ever mattered. On the Little Phatty, I just save programs that I like to play, so I still have that. Otherwise, I'll be fine without patch memory.

I get all kinds of sounds and patterns that I'll never hear again, especially when doing sample-and-hold stuff on audio-rate oscillators, where each note has its own complete, repeating, non-random, pattern. I'll soon do some recording based on this idea, but the actual patterns can never be reconstructed; and there's some kind of beauty in that.

[DavidDever]

I've seriously considered an older Emax I for this very consideration - I like the idea of having the analog filters (SSM in this case) to help smooth things out a bit, with the ability to throw whatever I can find through them, using the keyboard to play with pitch, etc. I still keep an ESI-32 around for similar purposes, though the (digital) filters leave much to be desired.

If Waldorf, for example, would step up to the plate and manufacture a Blofeld-ish device with analog filters, that'd be quite nice as well.

I have heard good things about the Prophet 2000 as well as the Studio 440 as regards sound quality, but the lack of memory* as well as overall support make either option nearly useless for a digital sampling instrument.

* - more so for the keyboard-based instruments

[Razmo]

I've seriously considered an older Emax I for this very consideration - I like the idea of having the analog filters (SSM in this case) to help smooth things out a bit, with the ability to throw whatever I can find through them, using the keyboard to play with pitch, etc. I still keep an ESI-32 around for similar purposes, though the (digital) filters leave much to be desired.

If Waldorf, for example, would step up to the plate and manufacture a Blofeld-ish device with analog filters, that'd be quite nice as well.

I have heard good things about the Prophet 2000 as well as the Studio 440 as regards sound quality, but the lack of memory* as well as overall support make either option nearly useless for a digital sampling instrument.

* - more so for the keyboard-based instruments

I've thought in these lines as well, but I also promised myself not to get older unstable machines... I've had enough to do with old synths that need maintenance, so I'm patiently waiting for DSI to make a new iteration of their earlier samplers... It would be one of those machines that is different enough from their current line, to be of interest I'd say.

The Waldorf synth you crave, was almost made... it was to be called the Stromberg, but never saw the light of day  ... maybe they'll step up later and produce a new polyphonic synth with analog filters.... who knows... but I got this strange feeling, that it's just a matter of time before some company makes a polyphonic sampler type synth with analog filters and VCAs... at least I hope I'm right... until then, I'll do with digital samplers.

Also, if such a sampler was made, I'd still keep a digital sampler for vocals, FX as these really do not need analog filters... it's merely a playback device of sorts... if a sampler with analog filters comes along, I'd be using it to make playable synth tones like with ROMplers... I'd get that sampler/synth in an instant...

[Paul Dither]

The Waldorf synth you crave, was almost made... it was to be called the Stromberg, but never saw the light of day  ... maybe they'll step up later and produce a new polyphonic synth with analog filters.... who knows... but I got this strange feeling, that it's just a matter of time before some company makes a polyphonic sampler type synth with analog filters and VCAs... at least I hope I'm right... until then, I'll do with digital samplers.

Well, there's the Modal Electronics 002.

[Razmo]

The Waldorf synth you crave, was almost made... it was to be called the Stromberg, but never saw the light of day  ... maybe they'll step up later and produce a new polyphonic synth with analog filters.... who knows... but I got this strange feeling, that it's just a matter of time before some company makes a polyphonic sampler type synth with analog filters and VCAs... at least I hope I'm right... until then, I'll do with digital samplers.

Well, there's the Modal Electronics 002.

Certainly... but it lacks two things to be a replacement of a Waldorf Blofeld... the sample flash option, and user wavetables  ... but the Modal 002 is certainly a machine I'd like to get my hands on anyway because of the way the digital oscillators are made, and it's discrete analog filters.

But I'd still prefer to see a DSI sampler with preferably a multimode filter, distortion, at least 8 voices and with USB/SD sample storage capabilities... and of course DSI's usual deep engine... the market really do not have such a machine at this point. then simply throw in wavetable features as well, which should be easy when it's a sampler anyway, and I'm sure they would have a winner.... if it included the same audio rate modulation matrix as the P12, it would be REALLY cool. And if they wanted it even better, they would put in something like VariPhrase on the V-Synth... I'd be sold instantly 

[Paul Dither]

The Waldorf synth you crave, was almost made... it was to be called the Stromberg, but never saw the light of day  ... maybe they'll step up later and produce a new polyphonic synth with analog filters.... who knows... but I got this strange feeling, that it's just a matter of time before some company makes a polyphonic sampler type synth with analog filters and VCAs... at least I hope I'm right... until then, I'll do with digital samplers.

Well, there's the Modal Electronics 002.

Certainly... but it lacks two things to be a replacement of a Waldorf Blofeld... the sample flash option, and user wavetables  ... but the Modal 002 is certainly a machine I'd like to get my hands on anyway because of the way the digital oscillators are made, and it's discrete analog filters.

Basically everything is fully discrete in the 002, from the NCOs to the VCAs. It's worth testing one in person. Sounds very huge and has an enormous bottom end.

[Razmo]

The Waldorf synth you crave, was almost made... it was to be called the Stromberg, but never saw the light of day  ... maybe they'll step up later and produce a new polyphonic synth with analog filters.... who knows... but I got this strange feeling, that it's just a matter of time before some company makes a polyphonic sampler type synth with analog filters and VCAs... at least I hope I'm right... until then, I'll do with digital samplers.

Well, there's the Modal Electronics 002.

Certainly... but it lacks two things to be a replacement of a Waldorf Blofeld... the sample flash option, and user wavetables  ... but the Modal 002 is certainly a machine I'd like to get my hands on anyway because of the way the digital oscillators are made, and it's discrete analog filters.

Basically everything is fully discrete in the 002, from the NCOs to the VCAs. It's worth testing one in person. Sounds very huge and has an enormous bottom end.

I will... someday... it's a tad too expensive for me right now, and we have no distributors in Denmark where I live, so I have no chance of testing one out first... but I'll probably look into getting one at some point for sure... maybe even the newer black one that is fully analog, unless the 002 can provide me with some functionality that is so unique it will have it's place in my arsenal of synthesis

But first... Integra-7... will buy one used tomorrow...

[Shaw]

But I'd still prefer to see a DSI sampler with preferably a multimode filter, distortion, at least 8 voices and with USB/SD sample storage capabilities... and of course DSI's usual deep engine... the market really do not have such a machine at this point. then simply throw in wavetable features as well, which should be easy when it's a sampler anyway, and I'm sure they would have a winner.... if it included the same audio rate modulation matrix as the P12, it would be REALLY cool. And if they wanted it even better, they would put in something like VariPhrase on the V-Synth... I'd be sold instantly 

+1 for a Sampler / P12 mod matrix / V-Synth "Frankensynth" -- killer.   But I think we are dreaming on that one.


Paul is right, the 002 is worth a 2nd (and 3rd) look.  Hefty price tag, but man she sounds pretty.