Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?

Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« on: August 24, 2021, 02:27:07 AM »
Hi everyone,

Take 5 seems to be almost the perfect package, and it sounds gorgeous!
But please please please consider raising the number of user preset locations, lovely developers and engineers and Sequential, please. 128 user presets is just absolutely incredibly shockingly little. People buy soundsets, others create their own. Memory can't be that expensive anymore, can it?
As so many others, I create my own sounds and will usually amass dozens of works-in-progress too. With 128 user presets, that just leaves very very little room for saving all experiments along the way.

Now that I'm done complaining, the rest looks and sounds incredible and so so appealing.

Thanks for listening
Viktor

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2021, 05:07:11 AM »
I totally agree and this is as stupid as the limited patch storage locations in first Roland Boutique series.
A limited storage will not make the synthesizer feel "more vintage". It is just annoying.
I always buy a lot of sound banks and I really don't want to hassle with my computer to just load one at once.

chysn

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Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2021, 09:23:27 AM »
I made the same complaint of the Mopho Keyboard ten years ago. What? Only 384 locations? In 2011? Absurd! Why not thousands? On a micro SD card?

Ten years ago!
Pro 3 #1640

Other: Make Noise modular, MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq, OPS7
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he/him/his

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2021, 10:45:40 AM »
Yeah, this seems to be one of the most common complaints / eyebrow raisers from the specs...  Only 128 user slots in 2021?  For a modern poly synth like this with a fairly deep sound engine?   

Compared with other analog modern polys in this mid range segment:
- Korg Prologue has 200+300 = 500 program locations. 
- Korg Minilogue XD has 200+300 = 500 program locations.
- Deepmind has 1024 program locations.   
- Prophet 6 has 500+500 = 1000 program locations.
- Prophet Rev2 has 512+512 = 1024 program locations


Really hoping this is not a hard limit in hardware...   The cost for a few hundred kb extra storage space is literally pennies.   
I would gladly pay $0.25 more to have 512 user slots!   Just tell me where to send my quarter. ;)

Seriously though, @pym and team, is there a possibility this will be addressed in a firmware update?   It's fine if it needs a menu dive to get to other user banks, but if we can have U1,U2,U3,U4 for 512 total like many other Seq instruments, that would be so much better... especially for a synth like this with a fairly deep sound engine and sixteen mod slots.   I know I'll have 128 slots filled in a couple months, and be constantly forced to overwrite patches.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 10:48:34 AM by creativespiral »

Sequential Pro 3 and Prophet Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

jg666

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Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2021, 11:13:53 AM »
I was fairly gutted when I read the user preset locations limit. I doubt Iíd buy another synth where I have to keep swapping patches in and out. I have to do it with my Minilogue (original version) and itís a pain.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2021, 11:41:16 AM »
This limit seems to be hard wired into the synths architecture, hardware wise as there is only the option of the Factory Bank light being on or off, giving a total of 2 x 8 banks of 16 (ie. 256 patches).

As we know, they heading into the shops so the hardware is not going to change, the best we can hope for is you can use the Sound Tower editor (not out yet!) or special / test menu (Transpose up & down + Global) to swap out the Sequential Factory bank for one of your own as you can with the Rev-2 (first to buy please check), so you can have a bank for favourites or full of templates or for gigging with and the User Bank becomes a scratch pad for messing, but youíll have to do a sysex dump at the end of each session & document carefully. As if I ever remember to do that!

Itís a shame that a tiny bit extra hardware such as a group button & extra display digit would offer more, but if the sound for your Pound / Dollar / Euro appeals as is, it can probably be lived with, especially if you use it as a lead instrument paired with a Rev-2 or what have you.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2021, 02:45:04 PM »
Meh, I'm fine with this. I usually only use maybe 50 presets tops on my Prophet 6. For most of my recordings, I usually just start with a basic patch, record it and never save it.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2021, 05:06:04 PM »
If hardware allowed, they could easily implement 256 user and 256 factory presets by adopting the same interface for patches as the Subsequent 37: press bank, then pressing a 1-16 button chooses a bank. Then press 1-16 to choose a preset within that bank.

LPF83

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Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2021, 05:18:45 PM »
If hardware allowed, they could easily implement 256 user and 256 factory presets by adopting the same interface for patches as the Subsequent 37: press bank, then pressing a 1-16 button chooses a bank. Then press 1-16 to choose a preset within that bank.

I didn't even know this until recently but apparently the Rev4 does let you overwrite the factory patches with your own with the typical slippery button press sequence (I say slippery because apparently some folks have done this accidentally).. heh

Maybe that's true of all Sequential synths?
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

chysn

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Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2021, 04:56:29 AM »
I didn't even know this until recently but apparently the Rev4 does let you overwrite the factory patches with your own * * *
Maybe that's true of all Sequential synths?

Not all, no, but the Pro 3 allows this, as well, via a menu command.
Pro 3 #1640

Other: Make Noise modular, MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq, OPS7
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he/him/his

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2021, 03:17:25 AM »
There are USB B mail, as in Take5, to USB A femail adapters.
Then it could be possible to allow memory sticks to be connected.

Then backup/restore features could be implemented, such that you could select to restore a certain bank only.

No clue how different it is to connect memory sticks as protocol though(assume class compliant not needing drivers then).
But if doable could be useful with firmware updates ona number of Sequential stuff to allow immediate backup/restore operations.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2021, 08:44:02 AM »
There is actually the perfect space in the User Interface to add 256 new patch slots:

Currently, with either Factory or User Bank selected, you can hold down the bank button and switch between #1-8 banks on either (each with 16 programs selected by buttons after you select the bank).   But there are #9-16 buttons that are currently unused/inaccessible.   This presents a perfect area from a UI standpoint to easily add 128 slots for F9-16 and 128 slots for U9-16.   

Hopefully there is the ~300 kilobytes or so of space available to do this, and they can do it via firmware update.   Adding 256 slots would really improve this synth for long term usability and sound design variety.   It has a pretty deep sound engine, so its gonna be capable of lots of sonic variety, and some very deep and complex patches... the type of patches that you're not gonna want to have to delete/overwrite or go through the hassle of constant backups and restores from computer. 

Sequential Pro 3 and Prophet Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2022, 01:06:11 AM »
The factory presets can be either initialized or overwritten in the debug menu.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2022, 05:55:47 AM »
There is actually the perfect space in the User Interface to add 256 new patch slots:

Currently, with either Factory or User Bank selected, you can hold down the bank button and switch between #1-8 banks on either (each with 16 programs selected by buttons after you select the bank).   But there are #9-16 buttons that are currently unused/inaccessible.   This presents a perfect area from a UI standpoint to easily add 128 slots for F9-16 and 128 slots for U9-16.   

Hopefully there is the ~300 kilobytes or so of space available to do this, and they can do it via firmware update.   Adding 256 slots would really improve this synth for long term usability and sound design variety.   It has a pretty deep sound engine, so its gonna be capable of lots of sonic variety, and some very deep and complex patches... the type of patches that you're not gonna want to have to delete/overwrite or go through the hassle of constant backups and restores from computer.

I agree, though the silkscreening that shows how to select banks only points at the first 8 buttons. Still, Iím all for more patch space, even if it would slightly mess with the aesthetic logic.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2022, 03:54:01 AM »
The factory presets can be either initialized or overwritten in the debug menu.

Could you expand on this, please?

Is it a write protect on/off of factory presets, or?

I revisiting thinking maybe getting Take 5, but same turnoff each time seing the 128 user locations.

Did any firmware update fix this?

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2022, 05:35:23 AM »
From the (not documented) debug menu one can choose to overwrite the factory patch bank with the user bank ones.

Yes the 128 user limit is an insane and stupid choice in a modern synthesizer. Still Take 5 is a great sounding and nicely made instrument so my recommendations is to at least try to overlook this.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2022, 12:46:31 PM »
From the (not documented) debug menu one can choose to overwrite the factory patch bank with the user bank ones.

Yes the 128 user limit is an insane and stupid choice in a modern synthesizer. Still Take 5 is a great sounding and nicely made instrument so my recommendations is to at least try to overlook this.
Thanks, that helps quite a bit.

Would anybody know if you just as well can make sysex dumps from factory part too?
I am looking in manual and not sure if you can activate factory and dump.

Or I have to first make sysex dump of user to have them to import later, and then overwrite to factory and then start saving new stuff in user banks again. And make a sysex bup of user again too to restore everything later if needed.

I use Sysex manager in Cakewalk/Sonar which is good.

Everything in synths I have is 500-1000 presets and then I do not have to fire up computer every day I sit down and make presets with all the intermediate saves I do as well. It's about fun factor and how inviting unit is to sit down with it, kind of.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2022, 01:36:20 PM »
This article discusses Sysex targeting of Factory Banks on the Prophet Rev 2-

https://www.presetpatch.com/article/Sequential-Dave-Smith-Prophet-Rev-2-Overwriting-Factory-Patches

I haven't actually tried with the Take 5 yet, but would bet you can do similar sysex targeting on T5, except the Find/Replace string would need some alterations... where Rev2 uses "F0 01 2F" as its sysex-brand-instrument identifier, you would need to change that to "F0 01 35" for the Take 5.... and you would need to figure out what is the sysex numbering is for user vs factory banks.

Sequential Pro 3 and Prophet Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2022, 08:46:08 PM »
This article discusses Sysex targeting of Factory Banks on the Prophet Rev 2-

https://www.presetpatch.com/article/Sequential-Dave-Smith-Prophet-Rev-2-Overwriting-Factory-Patches

I haven't actually tried with the Take 5 yet, but would bet you can do similar sysex targeting on T5, except the Find/Replace string would need some alterations... where Rev2 uses "F0 01 2F" as its sysex-brand-instrument identifier, you would need to change that to "F0 01 35" for the Take 5.... and you would need to figure out what is the sysex numbering is for user vs factory banks.

Thanks for input and that idea.

Will see if that is smooth enough that I actually use it, or the T5 will just take up space in a short while. Usually every couple of minutes I make an intermediate save, so about 30 an hour or so. Then revisit those and go in other directions.

Re: Take 5 with only 128 user preset locations?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2022, 12:44:08 PM »
could it have anything to do with the speed at which this synth can change patch ? 128 presets takes half the bytes than 129 presets.