An option to store the Volume !

Micky

An option to store the Volume !
« on: July 17, 2021, 12:37:45 AM »
Please give us an option, to store the volumeknob-amount in the patches.
I know, on sequentials normally only the black-knob amounts are stored in the patches -
but the volume sends midimessages and in the third global bank is space, so possibly you
could realize this option.
This would be a nice relief in handling the great different possible charakters of this synthesizer !

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2021, 02:11:04 AM »
How about the two volume knobs for OSC 1 and OSC 2 in the top center of the front panel ???     ;)

It would though be nice if we could save volume settings in the Factory Presets ......
Some sound / patches can almost blow your ears off   :o


Cheers !
1976 MiniKORG700s // 1979 Prophet-5 rev.2 // 1981 KORG CX-3 // 1984 DX7 // 2020 Prophet-10 rev.4 // MoPho Box // 2 Creamware MiniMax // Creamware Pro-12 // 2 EMU-Proteus 2000 // EMU-Vintage Keys  // Casio VZ-10M // Roland VK-8M // Fatar SL 880 // Roland JUPITER-X

LPF83

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Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2021, 04:37:39 AM »
How about the two volume knobs for OSC 1 and OSC 2 in the top center of the front panel ???     ;)

Yup, this.

Beyond that, in my humble opinion, the master volume should always be an instrument-level setting.   The sound designer cannot know how the player has their DAW / mixer / interface gainstaged, and should not make assumptions about that by messing with relative volume levels of the instrument itself.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Micky

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2021, 09:46:21 PM »
How about the two volume knobs for OSC 1 and OSC 2 in the top center of the front panel ???     ;)

Yup, this.

Beyond that, in my humble opinion, the master volume should always be an instrument-level setting.   The sound designer cannot know how the player has their DAW / mixer / interface gainstaged, and should not make assumptions about that by messing with relative volume levels of the instrument itself.
But in my opinion people work different and if it would be possible to realize to have the decision how it works it would be nice.
My Moog Voyager allows this and so there´s the possibility to have the mixer complete open and to regulate the volume by the volume-knob.
Or do you think there´s complete no difference, with which level you go into the filters ?

LPF83

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  • 1507
Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2021, 04:40:23 AM »
How about the two volume knobs for OSC 1 and OSC 2 in the top center of the front panel ???     ;)

Yup, this.

Beyond that, in my humble opinion, the master volume should always be an instrument-level setting.   The sound designer cannot know how the player has their DAW / mixer / interface gainstaged, and should not make assumptions about that by messing with relative volume levels of the instrument itself.
But in my opinion people work different and if it would be possible to realize to have the decision how it works it would be nice.
My Moog Voyager allows this and so there´s the possibility to have the mixer complete open and to regulate the volume by the volume-knob.
Or do you think there´s complete no difference, with which level you go into the filters ?

I looked up the Voyager manual to see how this was implemented.  It lets you select whether the master and/or headphone levels stored with the preset are used when the preset is loaded or not, and lets you see this setting easily with the display.  I would certainly be okay with that feature as long as I could turn it off, and as long as the synth had an easy way for me to see whether its off or on (like the Voyager does... it has a real display that clearly explain the settings).  With the Rev4, we now have the third globals page which I consider precious real estate, and I hope the features that are added there are done with care and sparingly.  That said, as long as this feature was turned off by default (and I didn't have to modify it again after every OS update etc) then I would have no objections to it.

I will say I think part of the magic of the Rev4 is its simplicity -- the lack of features guides the player toward focusing on the musicality of what they are doing rather than the technicality.  I don't want to see it get cluttered with features so that it starts to feel like playing a Roland Fantom or other workstation (not that the Fantom is bad its just not what I want in a Prophet).  Features like PolyUnison, being able to voice-limit the P10, and being able to switch between P5 voicing and round robin are killer features that bring something special to the synth.  I can see the convenience factor of being able to store volume with the patch, but to me twisting the volume knob occasionally is just part of playing.

What I think would be interesting is if Dave came out with an add on hardware interface (sort of like the low frequency expander) that interfaces with the keyboard.  It could have a real display and new controls that open up new capabilities for the synth.  Maybe bi-timbrality, split mode, arp, sequencer, etc.  It could be a platform for all of the various and sundry features people would like to have.   
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Micky

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2021, 10:38:52 AM »
How about the two volume knobs for OSC 1 and OSC 2 in the top center of the front panel ???     ;)

Yup, this.

Beyond that, in my humble opinion, the master volume should always be an instrument-level setting.   The sound designer cannot know how the player has their DAW / mixer / interface gainstaged, and should not make assumptions about that by messing with relative volume levels of the instrument itself.
But in my opinion people work different and if it would be possible to realize to have the decision how it works it would be nice.
My Moog Voyager allows this and so there´s the possibility to have the mixer complete open and to regulate the volume by the volume-knob.
Or do you think there´s complete no difference, with which level you go into the filters ?

I looked up the Voyager manual to see how this was implemented.  It lets you select whether the master and/or headphone levels stored with the preset are used when the preset is loaded or not, and lets you see this setting easily with the display.  I would certainly be okay with that feature as long as I could turn it off, and as long as the synth had an easy way for me to see whether its off or on (like the Voyager does... it has a real display that clearly explain the settings).  With the Rev4, we now have the third globals page which I consider precious real estate, and I hope the features that are added there are done with care and sparingly.  That said, as long as this feature was turned off by default (and I didn't have to modify it again after every OS update etc) then I would have no objections to it.

I will say I think part of the magic of the Rev4 is its simplicity -- the lack of features guides the player toward focusing on the musicality of what they are doing rather than the technicality.  I don't want to see it get cluttered with features so that it starts to feel like playing a Roland Fantom or other workstation (not that the Fantom is bad its just not what I want in a Prophet).  Features like PolyUnison, being able to voice-limit the P10, and being able to switch between P5 voicing and round robin are killer features that bring something special to the synth.  I can see the convenience factor of being able to store volume with the patch, but to me twisting the volume knob occasionally is just part of playing.

What I think would be interesting is if Dave came out with an add on hardware interface (sort of like the low frequency expander) that interfaces with the keyboard.  It could have a real display and new controls that open up new capabilities for the synth.  Maybe bi-timbrality, split mode, arp, sequencer, etc.  It could be a platform for all of the various and sundry features people would like to have.
I´m near to you. That could be an option, but it isn´t really necessary. It´s a great synthesizer like it is...

Micky

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2021, 10:52:34 PM »
An option to store the volume is realised with the (P10) update.
The volume-control works in the normal single patches also...

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2021, 02:37:11 AM »
Great ! I was just wondering this.

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2023, 05:12:39 PM »
I am looking for a way to manage large variations in volume from one patch to the next. I noticed this thread, which includes a statement that this feature was added in the latest OS update, but the changelog only refers to the relative volume in splits/layers. So am I right that we do not currently have ability to store the volume for each patch?

Does anyone have any solutions that are working for them? I found a suggestion on another list-serve of using a midi-programmable pedal that allows different volume settings on each patch, such as the Source Audio EQ2 pedal.

This pedal might solve another problem for me. Right now, I need to insert a Radial Re-amp box between the Prophet and my Boss CE2 Chorus pedal to avoid overdriving the Boss input.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!
Prophet 10 Rev4, OB-X8, Moog One, Rhodes Mk8, Osmose, OB-6 desktop, Trigon 6 Desktop, Kawai VPC-1, Steinway D

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2023, 06:15:56 PM »
Does anyone have any solutions that are working for them? I found a suggestion on another list-serve of using a midi-programmable pedal that allows different volume settings on each patch, such as the Source Audio EQ2 pedal.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

Workaround:
1. enable stack or split mode
2. as the "A" preset load the preset for which you like to set and store the output volume
3. as the "B" preset load a "bogus" preset (I use a silent preset with all oscillator waveforms turned off)
4. adjust the volume by holding the 'Preset' button while turning the 'Volume' knob
5.
5. switch back to the “A” layer
6. save the stack/split preset
7. turn stack/split off
8. save the preset again
--> Result: The volume level set in step #4 is saved with the preset and stays persistent even when not in stack or split mode.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2023, 06:18:47 PM by Starkstrom »

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2023, 02:31:28 PM »
Please give us an option, to store the volumeknob-amount in the patches.
I know, on sequentials normally only the black-knob amounts are stored in the patches -
but the volume sends midimessages and in the third global bank is space, so possibly you
could realize this option.
This would be a nice relief in handling the great different possible charakters of this synthesizer !

That’s what you have the VCA for

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2023, 08:15:36 AM »
Thank you Starkstrom for the work-around suggestion. Ingenious! Do you happen to know if that information is captured when patches are stored in a librarian such as Soundtower, and whether that information is available and editable in the editor section of the librarian?
Prophet 10 Rev4, OB-X8, Moog One, Rhodes Mk8, Osmose, OB-6 desktop, Trigon 6 Desktop, Kawai VPC-1, Steinway D

Re: An option to store the Volume !
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2023, 08:53:20 PM »
Do you happen to know if that information is captured when patches are stored in a librarian such as Soundtower, and whether that information is available and editable in the editor section of the librarian?

I used to use Soundtower’s standalone librarian but stopped doing so as the Mac version was rather buggy and didn’t keep up with the latest P5/10 firmwares. I’m not familiar with the plug-in version of Soundtower’s editor. But if the current P5/10 firmware isn’t supported I assume that edits - as described in the ‘workaround’ above - probably aren’t reliably stored. Currently I use ‘SysEx Librarian’ by ‘Snoize’ to backup my edits but any other software that excepts sysex dumps will do. Simple sysex dumps are limited in terms of managing presets but are at least reliable as backups.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 09:05:33 PM by Starkstrom »