New Sequential Patent - Take 5

m1sterlurk · « **Reply #40 on:** August 21, 2021, 01:57:23 AM »

Quote from: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 01:24:40 AM

If it’s not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope I’m wrong.

I seriously doubt this. The Take 5 looks very similar to the Pro 3 standard. I myself own a Pro-3 standard, and while it's not as great as my Prophet REV2 build-wise I would never call the Pro-3's build quality "budget".

A Bass Station 2 is "budget". It's still decently built, but it is obvious that it was made to match a price point.

LPF83 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 21, 2021, 03:40:28 AM »

Quote from: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 01:24:40 AM

If it’s not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope I’m wrong.

I think there were other factors that led to Sequential's demise in the 80s. First, they admittedly over-invested in "computer music" products before the market was really there, at little ahead of their time. Then of course the onslaught of cheaper digital synths like the DX7, and back then Yamaha had a lock on the patent for FM synthesis so it wasn't easy to just spin up a new / competing product. And the wants of buyers was different -- Dave said himself that at that time, people didn't necessarily want analog just because it was analog. They wanted a keyboard that could emulate other instruments, so when FM synthesis and samplers came along it was hard to stay afloat. I think times have changed now, and buyers are specifically seeking the analog sound.

I suspect to some extent, having lower priced options could be a defensive strategy against the likes of Behringer. Sequential has a new CEO now, and to some extent the product design / pricing could be driven by strategies that only came into play with the Focusrite deal. Diversifying the product line with premium and budget offerings seems to be something a lot of newly hired CEOs like to do.

Manbird · « **Reply #42 on:** August 21, 2021, 04:25:59 AM »

Quote from: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 01:24:40 AM

If it’s not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope I’m wrong.

I'd suggest the Pro One was considered an "affordable" instrument when it was first in production, and that didn't quite knock Sequential out of action!

I'm thankful there's nothing about the Take 5 that calls to me in a "must have" way, but I'm equally grateful that Sequential are around at all and still conjuring one fine instrument after the next.

chysn · « **Reply #43 on:** August 21, 2021, 06:36:45 AM »

Quote from: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 01:24:40 AM

If it’s not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope I’m wrong.

I think we have to look at things on a per-product basis, though. Their budget instruments of the 80s were largely farmed out to Siel, and they were things nobody really wanted and that weren't--really--Sequential instruments. The Take 5 isn't setting off any "they're cheapening up" red flags for me. You can still get an analog polysynth for way, way less.

MrSmith · « **Reply #44 on:** August 21, 2021, 08:01:57 AM »

Good news if they are adding some more affordable gear to their catalog, i love my P10 to bits, its worth every penny i paid in my mind but i imagine a lot of people couldnt justify such a big ticket for one synth

Wonder if they will offer a SE version?

No resonant high pass filter, i had to let go of my P6

to afford the P10 and thats one of my biggest miss

Look forward to the demos

LPF83 · « **Reply #45 on:** August 21, 2021, 10:11:56 AM »

I noticed something in the pics that makes me wonder if this is indeed fake news.

No fine tune of osc pitch?

I suppose the pitch knobs could be doing cents, but the knob travel does not look ideal for navigating 100 cents between each semitone. I could be wrong, but it struck me as an odd omission.

LoboLives · « **Reply #46 on:** August 21, 2021, 10:25:09 AM »

Quote from: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 01:24:40 AM

If it’s not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope I’m wrong.

Sequential made a budget product before in the MophoX4. This is simply a successor.

LoboLives · « **Reply #47 on:** August 21, 2021, 10:55:28 AM »

Quote from: MrSmith on August 21, 2021, 08:01:57 AM

Good news if they are adding some more affordable gear to their catalog, i love my P10 to bits, its worth every penny i paid in my mind but i imagine a lot of people couldnt justify such a big ticket for one synth

Wonder if they will offer a SE version?

No resonant high pass filter, i had to let go of my P6 to afford the P10 and thats one of my biggest miss

Look forward to the demos

I think an SE version (Longer keybed, wooden sides etc) is a bad idea as it's then starting to eat into the Prophet 6's territory.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #48 on:** August 21, 2021, 01:05:56 PM »

Quote from: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 01:24:40 AM

If it’s not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope I’m wrong.

I don't believe so. This looks back to the earlier DSI days, when the company had multiple inexpensive modules and keyboards. It was quite a few years before they crossed the magical $3,000 line with the Prophet 12. It's only over the last several years that DSI/Sequential has become an exclusively high-end company.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #49 on:** August 21, 2021, 01:08:30 PM »

The big question is: Will there be a module version? I think this would be a good opportunity for Sequential to have just a couple of relatively inexpensive products, for a change. Please, please, please.

If the existence of this product was fake news, I think Sequential would have come out by now and killed the rumor.

jg666 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 21, 2021, 02:00:34 PM »

Just posting to register my interest in this topic!

LPF83 · « **Reply #51 on:** August 21, 2021, 02:46:16 PM »

Quote from: Sacred Synthesis on August 21, 2021, 01:08:30 PM

The big question is: Will there be a module version? I think this would be a good opportunity for Sequential to have just a couple of relatively inexpensive products, for a change. Please, please, please.

If the existence of this product was fake news, I think Sequential would have come out by now and killed the rumor.

Possibly, but between the curious lack of fine tune knobs in the image, and the MSRP supposedly being $1,250, and the fact that this is the first time I've seen such a product announcement that does not appear to have originated at Sequential, I must say that as of now (and until we learn more), it has the faint musty odor of a hoax. It may not be, but the reason the MSRP is suspect is, because it seems like offering a synth with Prophet 5 guts, with more features than the Prophet 5 would be a strange business move. A module would then probably be $800-ish -- and then what would be someones motivation to buy a P5 desktop? That sort of product-line cannibalization seems a bit unlikely, especially since the cost of parts has gone up post-pandemic (and we see this increase reflected in most of their current products).

Also, Friday afternoon would be great timing to launch such a hoax, since if it is one, it might be Monday morning before it gets sorted out.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #52 on:** August 21, 2021, 02:56:26 PM »

Again, I think these rumors would have been refuted by now. But if you're correct, I'm sure we'll see a response from Sequential by Monday, at the latest.

Analog Prophet · « **Reply #53 on:** August 21, 2021, 03:05:08 PM »

I did not mean it’s necessary fake news but there is a possibility as long Sequential not have confirmed especially as the picture looks computer generated, not a photo. And if one want a cost effective synth there is already a more than overloaded market of great analog synths. I guess the Take 5 will be great to many and I’m happy I can resist the card from be swiped this time.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #54 on:** August 21, 2021, 03:35:13 PM »

As much as Sequential is a serious business, still, they do tend to surprise us with their decisions. And I mean that in a good way. Dave has many times stated that, in designing synthesizers, he does what he wants to do, rather than what he should. So, I think it's to be expected that Sequential may offer a synthesizer here and there that may - to the more prudent business-minded folks - seem odd, considering the synthesizer market in general.

LoboLives · « **Reply #55 on:** August 21, 2021, 08:28:51 PM »

Quote from: Sacred Synthesis on August 21, 2021, 03:35:13 PM

As much as Sequential is a serious business, still, they do tend to surprise us with their decisions. And I mean that in a good way. Dave has many times stated that, in designing synthesizers, he does what he wants to do, rather than what he should. So, I think it's to be expected that Sequential may offer a synthesizer here and there that may - to the more prudent business-minded folks - seem odd, considering the synthesizer market in general.

Reissues of the P5/10 and possibly OBX aside.....I still consider this Phase 3 for Sequential....in terms of design and concepts. It seems to be going back to Phase I instruments like the MophoX4 and upgrading them and refining them. Prophet 08 became the Prophet REV2. Pro 2 becomes Pro 3 etc etc. In some respects the Prophet X is sort of a successor to the Prophet 12...although it's a totally different beast.

As much as I think Dave does what he wants I'm sure there is still some consideration from the public appeal when it comes to products. I mean they did slap "Prophet" on the "REV2" when most people said they hated the "Rev2" name on it's own.

Also Dave references how fun it would be to do a new drum machine....but I'm sure he realizes the market is oversaturated now and after the headache of the Tempest he probably just wants to stick with synths....at least according to Roger Linn.

A Thousand Eyes · « **Reply #56 on:** August 22, 2021, 08:42:17 AM »

Quote from: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 01:35:09 PM

Also is there a different between the filter in the Prophet 5 Rev 4 and the ones used in the Prophet 6 and Prophet X? It was my understanding they are all the same P-5 based filter.

The PX uses a chip called the SSI2144 that's an improved version of the SSM2044, which is a different topology than the SSM2040 used in the P5 Rev1/2. The P6 is discrete and doesn't lose low-end when resonance is brought in and is according to Dave "based" around the 2040. The Rev 4 (1/2 filter option) uses a chip called the SSI2140 which is an improved version of the original 2040. It loses low-end when resonance is brought in, but there might be a res comp on/off feature like the Pro 3 has for its Ladder. Perhaps it's permanently set to compensate to somewhat differentiate it from its classically committed Rev 4 showing.

Quote from: LPF83 on August 21, 2021, 10:11:56 AM

I noticed something in the pics that makes me wonder if this is indeed fake news.

No fine tune of osc pitch?

I suppose the pitch knobs could be doing cents, but the knob travel does not look ideal for navigating 100 cents between each semitone. I could be wrong, but it struck me as an odd omission.

You know you could just look up the Pro 3 and see it uses the exact same function of octave and pitch setup... Same amount of throw to each side as countless other pitch knobs such as the Prologue's. It also doesn't look "computer generated" as another user suggested.

It's doubtful that this is fake, albeit it's not official till it's official. Personally I don't like the name, look or form factor, although I think it should do gangbusters from a business standpoint. My problem with the whole Focusrite acquisition is that, at least from this product, it seems to be taking the insipid cross-pollinated design approach that smacks of board committee design that a lot of bigger synth companies follow to unify their products and to cut down on design development effort. That said, it's a completely understandable approach when it comes to their more budget conscientious offerings, so long as it doesn't start to contaminate their more flagship designs.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #57 on:** August 22, 2021, 08:50:46 AM »

Quote from: A Thousand Eyes on August 22, 2021, 08:42:17 AM

My problem with the whole Focusrite acquisition is that, at least from this product, it seems to be taking the insipid cross-pollinated design approach that smacks of board committee design that a lot of bigger synth companies follow to unify their products and to cut down on design development effort.

Dave Smith recently criticized the "board committee design" approach, saying that you can easily recognize it as a redundancy in a control panel, as if each member of a committee had to have one of their pet features included. This leads to a repetition in which several parameters share common functions.

A Thousand Eyes · « **Reply #58 on:** August 22, 2021, 09:10:47 AM »

Yeah, he was talking about feature overload in that interview. What I'm mainly concerned with in this particular instance is more to do with aesthetics. Take Nord for example.

Hopefully it's not a sign of things to come concerning all aspects of Sequential's philosophy moving forward post-acquisition.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #59 on:** August 22, 2021, 09:39:48 AM »

Aesthetics are definitely important.