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Rev 2 firmware is it just me?

Pym

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #200 on: August 10, 2021, 07:16:24 PM »
Yeah that actually would take too much space in the DSP, I did try to get it in. It was intended to happen but there isn't room to do it right because we hit the ceiling in the chip.

Have you looked at what it would take to enable pitch bend and aftertouch on both layers of a 16-voice Rev2?

Peculiar is a good word for all this.

It turns out the problem with the sequences not playing correctly was due to a compiler bug which is quite rare, the code was exactly the same as the Prophet '08. So trying to figure out why some of this stuff is happening means I have to completely throw my assumptions out the window and assume anything can be broken... that slows things down. Unfortunate but it happens sometimes.

I'm looking into the sync bug where it's one step off, I've almost fixed it but something is not behaving correctly and isn't obvious so still not entirely sure if I'll be able to track it down in a reasonable time frame. It may or may not be related to the arp problem.

I haven't given up on it yet, but I don't want to get your hopes up, just letting you know I'm still putting some effort in that direction

Been trying to work out what's going on more specifically...

It's quite confusing... I turned off the Arp, to troubleshoot. In Keystep mode, just using Layer A, some of the step values have no effect, strangely. WHICH steps vary from time to time... If running through the sequencer in "normal" mode, with all steps set, it seems to "sample" the steps, so when switching to "keystep" mode it plays nicely in sequence...

But changing the step values when in "keystep" mode is quite unpredictable...

When engaging the Arp, the results are even more peculiar... I set up a pattern of 48 (C) on all the steps, then changed only one step at a time to 38 (G), with all others remaining at 48. I reset whatever step I tested at 38 each time, to 48 before testing the next step. So I always had a pattern of 15 steps with a value of 48 each, and 1 step at 38, at any time. The results varied... what step works... and in what way... sometimes I got the predicted 1 out of 16 steps at 38, sometimes a pattern of 2 out of 8, or 3 out of 8 steps, or 2 out of 16 steps,  and some 0 out of 16 (ie the step value had no effect), at a value of 38 (G). The rest 48(C).

But as long as the gated sequencers work correctly on both layers in Keystep mode (with the Arp turned off), even if it takes "running through" the sequencers for each voice in "normal" mode, to "set them up" for the keystep mode, I'm happy... as long as it works. I haven't got that far yet, but hopefully will soon. But as creativespiral has already reported that it works, I expect that it indeed will.

And hopefully someone can figure out what's going on, and if it's worth fixing, as I really can't get my head around it at this time...
Sequential

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #201 on: August 11, 2021, 05:59:04 AM »
Thanks Pym for keeping us updated! (and for your efforts with the OS as well, of course) We really appreciate it!
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #202 on: August 11, 2021, 08:54:54 AM »
I'm looking into the sync bug where it's one step off, I've almost fixed it but something is not behaving correctly and isn't obvious so still not entirely sure if I'll be able to track it down in a reasonable time frame. It may or may not be related to the arp problem.

I haven't given up on it yet, but I don't want to get your hopes up, just letting you know I'm still putting some effort in that direction

Thanks for an update on this, Pym!  The KEY STEP OFFSET between A and B does happen with the Arp on, but also happens with Arp OFF and just triggering via keys.  Glad to know its being looked into... I started designing out new some new stacked melodic patches, but have temporarily stopped, as its a bit tedious to line things up between the sequencers with the offset.   Keep us updated... If it can be fixed, it will make patch design much more streamlined and intuitive... but if not, let us know... and I'll just continue designing patches with manual offsets on B seq.

On a separate note:  That other sequencer issue with out of phase / glitchy behavior in "NO RESET", or "NO HOLD/RST" modes could be remedied, I believe, by just adding an initial sync when a MIDI Start Msg is received.  That would provide the only reset to those two modes, and sync with external DAW or drum machine, and ensure the sequencer is in phase with the clock.  (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,5362.msg53544.html#msg53544)   

So happy you're doing what you can with the Rev2!  Such a fantastic instrument.  Cheers!

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #203 on: August 11, 2021, 08:59:11 AM »
But... it SEEMS that when a step is set to "rest", the Arp still triggers a voice on that step, but as there is no note value information available for that particular step (as it's set to "rest", ie "skip step", so no new note info) the Arp triggers the next voice in line, with whatever note that voice last played... like S&H for each voice that gets triggered by the Arp on a "rest" note of the Gated Sequencer #1, it holds the previous note when triggered on a "rest" step.

@maxter - This might be applicable for the situation you have run into... when you adjust the Reset of a step in the gated sequencer, I highly recommend saving the patch right afterward... there is actually another minor bug (forgot to mention this earlier)... but if you set a reset, then undo the reset and set a different reset step, the gated sequencer sometimes doesn't play though the steps and reset at the correct point.  BUT - the act of just saving the patch immediately fixes it.   I don't move the reset steps around often, but when I do, I always save the patch right after.  Not sure why this happens.. maybe something held in temp edit buffer is not in sync with the patch sysex? 

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Pym

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #204 on: August 11, 2021, 10:33:23 AM »
Yeah that's what I thought too, and when I tried to do that it caused another bug. It's a feedback loop of frustration. One moment I think to myself "oh, that was smart, I did that well" and the next moment I think "man I was an idiot to do it that way"  :P

Appreciate you guys being patient, I know it's important for you

I'm looking into the sync bug where it's one step off, I've almost fixed it but something is not behaving correctly and isn't obvious so still not entirely sure if I'll be able to track it down in a reasonable time frame. It may or may not be related to the arp problem.

I haven't given up on it yet, but I don't want to get your hopes up, just letting you know I'm still putting some effort in that direction

Thanks for an update on this, Pym!  The KEY STEP OFFSET between A and B does happen with the Arp on, but also happens with Arp OFF and just triggering via keys.  Glad to know its being looked into... I started designing out new some new stacked melodic patches, but have temporarily stopped, as its a bit tedious to line things up between the sequencers with the offset.   Keep us updated... If it can be fixed, it will make patch design much more streamlined and intuitive... but if not, let us know... and I'll just continue designing patches with manual offsets on B seq.

On a separate note:  That other sequencer issue with out of phase / glitchy behavior in "NO RESET", or "NO HOLD/RST" modes could be remedied, I believe, by just adding an initial sync when a MIDI Start Msg is received.  That would provide the only reset to those two modes, and sync with external DAW or drum machine, and ensure the sequencer is in phase with the clock.  (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,5362.msg53544.html#msg53544)   

So happy you're doing what you can with the Rev2!  Such a fantastic instrument.  Cheers!
Sequential

Pym

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #205 on: August 11, 2021, 10:40:36 AM »
You can also just turn stack/split on/off and it should reset things to 0

But... it SEEMS that when a step is set to "rest", the Arp still triggers a voice on that step, but as there is no note value information available for that particular step (as it's set to "rest", ie "skip step", so no new note info) the Arp triggers the next voice in line, with whatever note that voice last played... like S&H for each voice that gets triggered by the Arp on a "rest" note of the Gated Sequencer #1, it holds the previous note when triggered on a "rest" step.

@maxter - This might be applicable for the situation you have run into... when you adjust the Reset of a step in the gated sequencer, I highly recommend saving the patch right afterward... there is actually another minor bug (forgot to mention this earlier)... but if you set a reset, then undo the reset and set a different reset step, the gated sequencer sometimes doesn't play though the steps and reset at the correct point.  BUT - the act of just saving the patch immediately fixes it.   I don't move the reset steps around often, but when I do, I always save the patch right after.  Not sure why this happens.. maybe something held in temp edit buffer is not in sync with the patch sysex?
Sequential

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #206 on: August 11, 2021, 12:24:02 PM »
But... it SEEMS that when a step is set to "rest", the Arp still triggers a voice on that step, but as there is no note value information available for that particular step (as it's set to "rest", ie "skip step", so no new note info) the Arp triggers the next voice in line, with whatever note that voice last played... like S&H for each voice that gets triggered by the Arp on a "rest" note of the Gated Sequencer #1, it holds the previous note when triggered on a "rest" step.

@maxter - This might be applicable for the situation you have run into... when you adjust the Reset of a step in the gated sequencer, I highly recommend saving the patch right afterward... there is actually another minor bug (forgot to mention this earlier)... but if you set a reset, then undo the reset and set a different reset step, the gated sequencer sometimes doesn't play though the steps and reset at the correct point.  BUT - the act of just saving the patch immediately fixes it.   I don't move the reset steps around often, but when I do, I always save the patch right after.  Not sure why this happens.. maybe something held in temp edit buffer is not in sync with the patch sysex?

Good idea! I was mostly messing around to try out the OS, and went between different sequencer modes, so it's not too surprising to see something act up, without saving the patch frequently.

Though my experience was with the "rest", not "reset". On "rest", a step should be skipped, ie not triggered. But it seems the arpeggiator overrides that, and triggers the "rest" steps too. With no actual pitch information available for that step, I suppose the last played note just triggers the voice, either with the pitch that voice is at, or the pitch that the step was last set to. I haven't really been on the Rev2 since then, so I haven't figured out which it is.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #207 on: August 12, 2021, 12:31:43 PM »
Good idea! I was mostly messing around to try out the OS, and went between different sequencer modes, so it's not too surprising to see something act up, without saving the patch frequently.

Though my experience was with the "rest", not "reset". On "rest", a step should be skipped, ie not triggered. But it seems the arpeggiator overrides that, and triggers the "rest" steps too. With no actual pitch information available for that step, I suppose the last played note just triggers the voice, either with the pitch that voice is at, or the pitch that the step was last set to. I haven't really been on the Rev2 since then, so I haven't figured out which it is.

Oh... sry, misread "rest" as "reset"...  +1   It would be very cool if a Rest in Key Step mode would cause the voice gate to not be triggered (whether the gate is generated via regular key press or arp)...  the Rest would suppress the gate/trigger event when its detected on that step with a rest.    This is actually something that would be great to implement across all Seq instruments with Key Step /  Seq Trigger modes... (Pro 3, Rev 2)    It's a behavior that is very useful for creating interesting rhythms. 

FYI: the approach I generally take currently is to modulate the Cutoff way down when I want to skip a step... It's definitely not as holistic a solution, and has some downsides, but it does achieve a skipped step type of sound.   In that video I recorded a couple weeks back, that's how I got the gallop rhythm... dropping cutoff to be inaudible on step 6 and 14. (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,5526.0.html)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2021, 12:39:36 PM by creativespiral »

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #208 on: August 12, 2021, 05:47:09 PM »
Good idea! I was mostly messing around to try out the OS, and went between different sequencer modes, so it's not too surprising to see something act up, without saving the patch frequently.

Though my experience was with the "rest", not "reset". On "rest", a step should be skipped, ie not triggered. But it seems the arpeggiator overrides that, and triggers the "rest" steps too. With no actual pitch information available for that step, I suppose the last played note just triggers the voice, either with the pitch that voice is at, or the pitch that the step was last set to. I haven't really been on the Rev2 since then, so I haven't figured out which it is.

Oh... sry, misread "rest" as "reset"...  +1   It would be very cool if a Rest in Key Step mode would cause the voice gate to not be triggered (whether the gate is generated via regular key press or arp)...  the Rest would suppress the gate/trigger event when its detected on that step with a rest.    This is actually something that would be great to implement across all Seq instruments with Key Step /  Seq Trigger modes... (Pro 3, Rev 2)    It's a behavior that is very useful for creating interesting rhythms. 

FYI: the approach I generally take currently is to modulate the Cutoff way down when I want to skip a step... It's definitely not as holistic a solution, and has some downsides, but it does achieve a skipped step type of sound.   In that video I recorded a couple weeks back, that's how I got the gallop rhythm... dropping cutoff to be inaudible on step 6 and 14. (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,5526.0.html)

Yeah, I think it worked that way on the P'08, the rest steps were rests, when triggered. Though it had no arp, but when triggering by keys or external arp, the note didn't play, as intended. I'm pretty sure, as I had nothing weird triggered on those "rest" steps then, and oh yes, this can indeed produce some very interesting rhythms and syncopations, as well as melodies and timbral modulations...

As it's not currently like that on the Rev2, that's a way to do it like you mention, routing a sequencer either to Cutoff or VCA. With a negative amount in the mod matrix. This is more lively than the "rests", as it's not just ON/OFF, but can be any value from 0-125. Sacrificing one sequencer lane for using the arp is ok with me, as it "evens out", though a fix would be great of course... even more possibilities. If wanting a more "random" result, or not able to sacrifice a sequencer lane, a synced random LFO also works, to add (well, subtract in this case actually, because of "negative" mod amount) rhythm and dynamics, or accents. But less predictable.

That video of yours was interesting! I'm not a great pedagogue, and should probably make some illustrations for this, but anyhow I'll give it a shot... (this is without using the arp, if you use the arp you just exchange a sequencer for the arp with whatever notes you play)... you went with 4ths and 5ths (in a sense the same, just the respective inverted counterparts of eachother), which is smart. I thought I'd elaborate a bit on this, that if you start on, let's say a D, and go 2x above and below, using 5ths AND/OR 4ths, you get the same result of notes (at inverted octaves though)... the pentatonic scale. Which is, arguably, THE most generic, or most readily understood and recognized scale to the human mind.

Using 5ths, you get E - A - D - G - C
Using 4ths, you get C - G - D - A - E
Same notes, the pentatonic scale, just inverted order. Pull these together into the same octave and you get an A minor 7/11 (in this case, or whatever *** minor 7/11 chord you choose, with the key you strike)... ie the pentatonic scale. The D turns out to be the middle note in the chord as well as the 4th/5th thingy above.

So that's A - C - D - E - G, assuming you want the A as root when you press an A key, on the P'08/Rev2 sequencer values 0 - 6 - 10 - 14 - 20  (and 24 - 30 - 34 - 38 - 44 ... and 48 - 54 - ... and so on, etc...)

Now, if you constrict one sequencer to this set collection of notes/values only, then use another sequencer to transpose further... by a 4th and/or 5th up AND down, you get:

on 4th up/5th down - D - F - G - A - C
D minor pentatonic scale, or 7/11
only difference of notes being F instead of E

on 4th down/5th up - E - G - A - B - D
E minor pentatonic
only difference a B instead of C.

(Any sequencer could of course be offset by octaves here and there as well.)

By this we get the notes A - B - C - D - E - F - G
A minor/C major scale. With the least easy-to-grasp notes harmonically, B and F, generally occuring the least overall. These notes also form half a diminished chord, ie 6 semitones apart. (Which can also be used harmonically to modulate to different keys...)

OR one could use 3 sequencers each constrained to using only root, and first order 4ths and 5ths up and down (and any octaves of these), to control pitch, to get the same result of notes. At the cost of another sequencer though, so I use the above approach instead, just 2 sequencers at different lenghts (though using 3 could make the pattern less repetitive, you probably won't catch anything repeating anyhow, just using 2...). I'd say go easy though, use lots of root notes on each sequencer, and fewer of the other notes, to keep it comprehensive by the root note occuring dominantly, or most often. Otherwise one can slip towards cacophony, or seemingly random notes. One could instead use an arpeggiator in "random" mode, if random is what you want...

The fun part is with using rests, and/or VCA/Cutoff/Pan (etc) modulations to bring in accents, and setting each of the sequencers controlling the pitch to different lengths (different reset steps), creating what I'd call a "pseudo-generative" melody (and/or rhythm). Though it's anything but random...

Also using the matrix to "reuse" those same sequencers for controlling other stuff, makes it even more interesting...

Doing this intelligently on TWO layers with 4 sequencers each, makes it at least TWICE as interesting, and possibilities multiply even more... And routing stuff to offset just 1 of the 2 osc, modulating the osc mix, etc etc etc, can create some remarkable results. Synced LFO's at a rhytmic interval, routed to an osc pitch as well...

And if you use lots of rests, and notes sparsely, you can even trigger the different voices at various rhytmic intervals/syncopations with an external arp (preferably quite a bit apart, like a whole bar + an 1/8 or 1/16th, or resp triplet interval), then set them to free-run (no reset mode) and it gets even more interesting... I'm hoping to get into all this again and actually make something with it, soon enough, now that both layers sequencers work.

I didn't expect the post to be this long when I started out, and perhaps it should be moved to that other thread that you just linked to. As the larger part of this post may belong there, I suppose. If I knew the drift off-track would take this long I would've posted there. Oh well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne6tB2KiZuk
« Last Edit: August 12, 2021, 06:16:25 PM by maxter »
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #209 on: August 12, 2021, 09:54:15 PM »
@maxter - Definitely follow your train here...  Yeah, sky's the limit with this type of melodic sequencing via gated sequencer!   You can really get into modular synth territory with procedural/evolving harmonies just repeating a single root note... like you are outlining.  And now that it works on stacked layers too, you can control six oscillators (4+2subs), with four adjustable reset seq lanes on each layer and all the other modulation controls.   With variance in reset points, you can definitely create some sequences that nearly never repeat, and progress through a variety of chord changes, and key modulations.   

Post some sound demos if you pursue this further... would like to hear what you come up with! :) 

I've found that the style of patch design I usually prefer -- I'm less into pre-defining complex procedural patterns, and more into the ability to play the keybed in a real-time setting, controlling song structure and key / harmony changes through the keybed, but just having the mod sequencer providing some dynamic chord inversions, and chord variants that are still mostly in key with what I'm playing... that is of course why the mod frequencies I've chosen are focused on +/- 4th, +/- 5th, +/- Octave, or stacking those variants.   

You end up getting lots more complex harmonic content even just by playing octaves or power chords -- you get chords that are still highly harmonic, but have some flavor (Power chords, Sus 2, Sus 4, and Chord Inversions of everything by modulating octaves on select steps/oscillators).  And when you play triads or more complex chords on the keybed, then things can get pretty interesting, and you'll start to get a variety of notes with extra dissonance... but even the out of key notes will still be in closely related key signatures, so it often just adds a bit of tension and interest.   



Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #210 on: October 10, 2021, 02:13:03 AM »
Aa a new member with a 16 voice desktop waiting at the post office to pick up, finding and reading this post from the beginning was somewhat disturbing...

This whole saga brought flashbacks of my Virus TI experience. I preordered upon press leak, received the first unit in AUS, and essentially paid $3000 for the privilege to be a beta tester for the next couple of years.

My Prophet purchase was made with a confidence that goes hand in hand when dealing with a company with such high regard as Sequential - similarly with a product that is in the 5th year of production.

Iíve been in this game for 25 years. My expectation of a product is to be capable of all it says it can do on the box. I donít expect - but most certainly, appreciate - added features in subsequent updates.
What I believe a consumer base should expect is clear communication - radio silence is unacceptable, for any period of time.

I am so appreciative of all on this forum for your persistence and effort. Some have been more informative and reasonable than others - itís important to remember that no matter the size off the company that they are still run by humans.

And so it seems that I have indeed bought in at the right time... and am grateful to have mostly missed the beta circus this time round.

This forum is a great resource, thank you all for your contributions.

Pete

LPF83

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #211 on: October 10, 2021, 04:03:25 AM »
Aa a new member with a 16 voice desktop waiting at the post office to pick up, finding and reading this post from the beginning was somewhat disturbing...

This whole saga brought flashbacks of my Virus TI experience. I preordered upon press leak, received the first unit in AUS, and essentially paid $3000 for the privilege to be a beta tester for the next couple of years.

My Prophet purchase was made with a confidence that goes hand in hand when dealing with a company with such high regard as Sequential - similarly with a product that is in the 5th year of production.

Iíve been in this game for 25 years. My expectation of a product is to be capable of all it says it can do on the box. I donít expect - but most certainly, appreciate - added features in subsequent updates.
What I believe a consumer base should expect is clear communication - radio silence is unacceptable, for any period of time.

I am so appreciative of all on this forum for your persistence and effort. Some have been more informative and reasonable than others - itís important to remember that no matter the size off the company that they are still run by humans.

And so it seems that I have indeed bought in at the right time... and am grateful to have mostly missed the beta circus this time round.

This forum is a great resource, thank you all for your contributions.

Pete

For those of us who don't have the time to be uncompensated beta testers, several years after initial release is a great time to buy a synth (and I'm not limiting that comment to Sequential synths).  I bought my Prophet 12 module a few months before they discontinued it... in fact, I bought it because I anticipated it being continued.  Like the Rev2, it is a synth with a lot of modulation options (and more features usually means more things to potentially go wrong).  Never having to load an OS update, or suffer through bugs and wondering if they will ever be fixed, has been a joy.

In general I wish all synth manufacturers should place a greater emphasis on perfecting existing functionality, and ensuring that functionality is not disrupted via extensive regression testing, rather than chasing new features.  New features should be carefully vetted, and care taken to be sure that the new feature doesn't introduce new bugs to things that previously worked, or add new complications where there was a previous expectation of simplicity.


Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #212 on: October 10, 2021, 07:55:31 AM »
For those of us who don't have the time to be uncompensated beta testers, several years after initial release is a great time to buy a synth.

Yes, absolutely.  I would never buy a synthesizer with a low serial number from any company.  I give Sequential instruments a good year before I even consider buying something. 

If you want an instrument with 001 as a SN, be prepared to pay for it in chaos.
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

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maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #213 on: October 10, 2021, 10:18:44 AM »

I've found that the style of patch design I usually prefer -- I'm less into pre-defining complex procedural patterns, and more into the ability to play the keybed in a real-time setting, controlling song structure and key / harmony changes through the keybed, but just having the mod sequencer providing some dynamic chord inversions, and chord variants that are still mostly in key with what I'm playing... that is of course why the mod frequencies I've chosen are focused on +/- 4th, +/- 5th, +/- Octave, or stacking those variants.   

You end up getting lots more complex harmonic content even just by playing octaves or power chords -- you get chords that are still highly harmonic, but have some flavor (Power chords, Sus 2, Sus 4, and Chord Inversions of everything by modulating octaves on select steps/oscillators).  And when you play triads or more complex chords on the keybed, then things can get pretty interesting, and you'll start to get a variety of notes with extra dissonance... but even the out of key notes will still be in closely related key signatures, so it often just adds a bit of tension and interest.

I forgot to follow up on this comment. I agree that it is best to stick with the purest intervals. Just using 4ths and 5ths (and octaves of course, if they even count) leaves the most room for harmonic structuring and variation, you can basically play a minor OR major pentatonic scale, and remain in a single key. Doubling this with a second sequencer of the same intervals, makes for a pentatonic minor scale (just playing one note), or major/minor scale playing root+4th+ī5th. Still quite flexible... With a third sequencer, same intervals, we get the basic major/minor melodic scale (playing one note). As the melodies created get more and more variation this way, the harmonic possibilities/freedoms are diminished.

"Sus 2, Sus 4, and Chord Inversions" Yep, a sus2 and sus4 could even be considered the "same" (not EXACTLY in musical terms, but you get the idea) by a simple chord inversion, at least in a case like this (where sequencers also transpose by octaves, making the 4ths and 5ths kind of ambiguous).

The one big no no, I'd say are any two notes separated by just a single semitone (or 11 semis, like a major 7). Not easy to get good results with.

A beauty of the minor pentatonic scale (to me) is that it's a symmetrical/mirrored scale, from the middle note (-5 -2  0 +2 +5). Ie it's well "balanced" structurally. The same middle note is a sort of superficial "root" in our case, as that's the note center for any equal amounts of 4ths/5ths up and down, either resulting in a minor pentatonic scale (2 degrees), or the melodic minor scale (3 degrees), of the actual root note. For instance, to get a C minor pentatonic scale, you start with F and go 2x 4ths or 5ths up and down, while 3x up and down from F gives the C minor melodic scale. Same here, F is a "mirror" centerpoint, -5 -3 -2  0 +2 +3 +5.

Mostly food for thought, when working with multiple sequencers, that the 4th up/5th down of the root, is the actual "center" in some ways, if wanting to leave options open, for example to use one sequencer with positive amount to one OSC, and the same sequencer also with a negative amount to another OSC, and other similar cases.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 10:35:35 AM by maxter »
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #214 on: October 10, 2021, 12:18:25 PM »
I've done a good amount of experimenting with this over the past few weeks.   Am getting close to a new patch bank release with tons of new layered vintage voice modeling patches and complex sequencer patches.   After chatting about this with you, I did push a few patches to the extremes of generative sequencing sound design (and named one of the patches "ARP Maxtronic" ;)    Stuck with fifths, fourths, and octaves, but with different sequence lengths and patterns each oscillators, and on both layers...   The result is pretty cool...   

You can hold down roots/octaves/fifths, and it creates very interesting melodic/harmonic patterns... some para-sounding-chords and melodies all related to the keys you play.   Once you add in some thirds or other intervals to the keybed, it gets really interesting --Shifts into some slight dissonance of related keys...  lots of fun... and its the type of ARP/SEQ that I like... not just triggering a pre-defined sequence... instead it's highly playable in real time, and can adapt to any song. 

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #215 on: October 10, 2021, 01:30:52 PM »
Sounds like right up my alley... or whatever it is they say. I'm european, so please forgive me for probably butchering some idioms and stuff here and there.  ;D

I haven't really got to it yet, since the last OS update, but utilizing the arp should take this to the next level (adding even an extra element), as I presume you already did.  :)

The way I would/will use this eventually, is not really as a "driving" force of an idea, but rather as a neat "spice". It can add interest to simpler ideas and progressions.

There's something just SO compelling/interesting (to me) about these (to most) SEEMINGLY "random" patterns that really AREN'T. To me it's often like, I can't put my finger on it but, the brain somehow picks up on the structural elements of each sequence, even if they're quite complex and multilayered. You can tell they're not random even after a little while, yet you can't really predict them accurately either... The same thing that interests me about baroque music, Bach in particular of course. It should be quite predictable, but still surprises you.

My apologies to all and anyone who perceive my posts as nothing/little more than rambling/ranting a lot of the time. I'm certainly not a scholar or anything, lack layman terms etc etc etc. I just find this very fascinating, that's the reason I'm talking out of my a**. And sorry for driving the thread OT, but I suppose the actual topic itself is quite done by now.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 01:49:18 PM by maxter »
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jg666

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #216 on: October 10, 2021, 03:34:35 PM »
I've done a good amount of experimenting with this over the past few weeks.   Am getting close to a new patch bank release with tons of new layered vintage voice modeling patches and complex sequencer patches.   After chatting about this with you, I did push a few patches to the extremes of generative sequencing sound design (and named one of the patches "ARP Maxtronic" ;)    Stuck with fifths, fourths, and octaves, but with different sequence lengths and patterns each oscillators, and on both layers...   The result is pretty cool...   

You can hold down roots/octaves/fifths, and it creates very interesting melodic/harmonic patterns... some para-sounding-chords and melodies all related to the keys you play.   Once you add in some thirds or other intervals to the keybed, it gets really interesting --Shifts into some slight dissonance of related keys...  lots of fun... and its the type of ARP/SEQ that I like... not just triggering a pre-defined sequence... instead it's highly playable in real time, and can adapt to any song.

Sounds great. Looking forward to this :)
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #217 on: October 12, 2021, 05:58:36 AM »
I've done a good amount of experimenting with this over the past few weeks.   Am getting close to a new patch bank release with tons of new layered vintage voice modeling patches and complex sequencer patches.   After chatting about this with you, I did push a few patches to the extremes of generative sequencing sound design (and named one of the patches "ARP Maxtronic" ;)    Stuck with fifths, fourths, and octaves, but with different sequence lengths and patterns each oscillators, and on both layers...   The result is pretty cool...   

You can hold down roots/octaves/fifths, and it creates very interesting melodic/harmonic patterns... some para-sounding-chords and melodies all related to the keys you play.   Once you add in some thirds or other intervals to the keybed, it gets really interesting --Shifts into some slight dissonance of related keys...  lots of fun... and its the type of ARP/SEQ that I like... not just triggering a pre-defined sequence... instead it's highly playable in real time, and can adapt to any song.

Sounds great. Looking forward to this :)

Iím keen to hear this patch bank too. Your previous work has been amazing, thanks for all your sounds and your info.

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #218 on: October 13, 2021, 04:41:11 PM »
Rev2:  The Calibration is Frozen!!!!

All - I hope you can assist. I recently downloaded the latest OS for my DSI Prophet Rev2 (1.1.5.9), and calibrated the oscillators and filters per instructions. All seemed to move toward to completion without incident. The front panel controls returned to normal and I was able to use the synth.  All the presets sounded great, but when I wanted to start a new patch from scratch (going into manual mode now - transpose up/down + Hold), the sounds were more distorted and gritty. I couldn't quite clean them up. I powered everything down and called it a night. now that I have time to dig in two days later, I turned on the synth and experienced the same thing (grittier sounds in manual mode). Confident that the synth had warmed up sufficiently by this point, I attempted the Calibration again. The Calibration is Frozen! It has been stuck at Voice 1 / OSC1...10 / OSC2...2 for over two (2) hours now! I don't want to turn off the synth because per instructions we are not supposed to turn off the synth during this process.  Thought/help/suggestions welcomed!  Thank you!

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #219 on: October 13, 2021, 11:56:35 PM »
Rev2:  The Calibration is Frozen!!!!

All - I hope you can assist. I recently downloaded the latest OS for my DSI Prophet Rev2 (1.1.5.9), and calibrated the oscillators and filters per instructions. All seemed to move toward to completion without incident. The front panel controls returned to normal and I was able to use the synth.  All the presets sounded great, but when I wanted to start a new patch from scratch (going into manual mode now - transpose up/down + Hold), the sounds were more distorted and gritty. I couldn't quite clean them up. I powered everything down and called it a night. now that I have time to dig in two days later, I turned on the synth and experienced the same thing (grittier sounds in manual mode). Confident that the synth had warmed up sufficiently by this point, I attempted the Calibration again. The Calibration is Frozen! It has been stuck at Voice 1 / OSC1...10 / OSC2...2 for over two (2) hours now! I don't want to turn off the synth because per instructions we are not supposed to turn off the synth during this process.  Thought/help/suggestions welcomed!  Thank you!
Iíve been through similar issues. I resetted the global parameters and went through several calibration loops. In many occasions it froze but the global reset helped to pass this stage. Still multiple loops were necessary as the sound was super weird though calibration had been completed successfully.