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Rev 2 firmware is it just me?

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2021, 12:22:31 PM »
I really don't want to dislike SCI, but they're making it awfully hard for me not to... It's not that I couldn't have use for the Rev2 as is, or that it's not already a decent instrument, it's just that this whole episode has left such a sour taste in my mouth. Because of this, just eyeing the Rev2 doesn't give me the inspiration that the P08 did, quite the contrary...

Anyhow, I realize it's too much for me to take at this point, even if they would eventually release a new OS. Had I known 2-3 years ago, maybe I could've accepted it for what it was (and still is). But NOT telling their customers upfront that it won't ever get completed (to keep sales going?) is pretty shitty. IMO.

In a way I actually suspected this outcome eventually, quite some time ago, because of the history of OS updates, where updates fixing some bugs would introduce other new bugs, perhaps digging the hole deeper...? I got the impression that the OS really wasn't properly done to begin with, considering the amount of bugs, and that the "quick fixes" didn't really deal with the real, deep down issues, which were probably ignored, and they hoped the quick fixes would do it. And that, because of this, actually fixing it in the end would turn out to be too "cumbersome" and time consuming for SCI to even bother.

I think it's possible (despite what they say), and could be done... but that it would take such a thorough reworking that it'd be too costly (and/or embarrassing?)...

I don't deny that the "B" have made morally flawed actions in the past, but at least they LISTEN to their consumers... "Sorry" to those who may get offended by that, but that's how I feel about SCI atm.

On the bright side, it made me stick around on this forum for lots of interesting posts and discussions, so my thanks go to the forum members here! You all made it worthwhile in a way.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2021, 12:30:09 PM »
Really hope we'll see at least a bug fix update!!! --  And an official "final release version" of the OS, rather than a "beta 1.1.5.9 designation".... that's no versioning scheme to leave an instrument with ;)   (ie: we need 2.0 final release version) 

I'm not expecting any new features at this point, but leaving the confirmed bugs unaddressed on this otherwise amazing synth would be very disappointing.   The sequencer doesn't work properly when stacking layers and using key stepping.   This is obviously broken / unintended behavior, and makes is so you can't really use all the functionality in of this bitimbral synth.   I really want to be able to do layered voice modeling, and dual layered arpeggios with key stepping... you could create amazing procedural melodic lines if the key stepping worked properly, but as-is, it's broken... the key stepping logic doesn't properly advance the steps as soon as you press the stack button on.  (It's probably a really easy fix too... probably just a variable that is listening to the wrong input source / or not paying attention to the 1/2 voice allocation when in stack mode)      (Ticket #48090 has the details for debugging) 

Please, Seq, just do one more pass, to address the confirmed bugs, and give us an official final release version of the OS.   The Rev2 is such an amazing analog flagship... it just needs a few minor bugs sorted out, before abandoning it.
 

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2021, 03:52:47 PM »
Yes, if only they would fix the bugs, we could live with it.  I'm still hoping the situation is somehow different from the way it appears.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2021, 05:15:32 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

jg666

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2021, 12:16:03 AM »
I’m sure I remember dear old Razmo voicing concerns that it could be left in an unfinished state and I also think I remember him mentioning another synth that had been left with bugs and unfinished.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

mick111289

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  • Le prophète m'a montré la voi
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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2021, 04:35:25 AM »
Sorry for my bad english i'm french  ;D

it's a shame if they stop updating,
the prophet 6 was released before rev 2 and the updates continue ...
Thanks anyway to creative spiral for the great job of the VCM, it's my INIT PATCH now.
to come back to the rev 2 SEQUENTIAL made the same mistake as for the waldorf PULSE 2 which had a stable OS but which could have gone a little further.
Pity ... :'(

Le prophète m'a montré la voi

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2021, 05:14:10 AM »
I’m sure I remember dear old Razmo voicing concerns that it could be left in an unfinished state and I also think I remember him mentioning another synth that had been left with bugs and unfinished.

Yes, the magnificent Poly Evolver.

This is the price we often pay for requesting feature-rich synthesizers; the complexity goes beyond the capacity of the designers.  I'm sure this is responsible, in part, for the old school reissue revival.  It certainly is in my case.  I bought my Korg ARP Odyssey Modules because I was weary from the long Rev2 wait, since I'm willing to buy one only after it's been completed and Sequential can install the updates for me.  But the Odysseys' sound and simplicity are the main attraction, and these they wonderfully fulfill.  But I would never have bought them used.  That's the dilemma we face, though.  On one hand, buying used vintage instruments guarantees high repair/maintenance costs, but on the other, buying brand new sophisticated instruments often leaves one waiting years for them to reach maturity.  And there is the possibility that they never will. 

I don't know if I would ever run into the bugs remaining in the Rev2.  But I do know that it would always bug me to know they're there.  Plus, they reduce the value of the instrument when you want to sell it.

The only reason I wanted a Rev2 was to have the next best thing to a brand new Prophet '08.  That's it.  A few improvements would have been nice, but they aren't worth the grief.  The big question is whether or not the Rev2 in its present state is actually better than a Prophet '08 in excellent condition?  I love the sound of my P'08; it's perfect for my musical purposes.  I feel no need to improve that fundamental character, and I'm not sure that the substantially more complex Rev2 does improve it.  I've never come across a video that struck me as demonstrating some fabulous sound or feature that placed the Rev2 on a higher musical plateau.  Not at all.  More technological versatility is not what I need, but only long-term stability.  And the present state of affairs certainly casts a shadow over that hope. 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2021, 11:35:20 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2021, 02:57:40 PM »
I've never come across a video that struck me as demonstrating some fabulous sound or feature that placed the Rev2 on a higher musical plateau.

Me neither... as you haven't made that video yet.  ;)
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2021, 05:12:23 PM »
I've never come across a video that struck me as demonstrating some fabulous sound or feature that placed the Rev2 on a higher musical plateau.

Me neither... as you haven't made that video yet.  ;)

A very clever response, inducing me to take the step.  You still think I should try the Rev2, in spite of all?
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

jok3r

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2021, 01:27:34 AM »
I've never come across a video that struck me as demonstrating some fabulous sound or feature that placed the Rev2 on a higher musical plateau.

Me neither... as you haven't made that video yet.  ;)

A very clever response, inducing me to take the step.  You still think I should try the Rev2, in spite of all?

Even if the question was not directed to me, as a fan of your music and Rev2 owner I can not hold back my opinion on this ;-)

If I'm right, most of the bugs are related to more complex MIDI stuff... I believe with your style of doing things and making music you will never ever run into any of the bugs.

The only things I'm doing per MIDI myself is sending Program Changes when playing live... otherwise I'm also playing and programming everything by hand and I never ran into any problems. The Rev2 is a really great "player's" synth, even if it stays in this unfinished state (what I do not hope, too...). I think you would be really happy with it, too.

Even the few times when I sequenced it from Ableton or some hardware sequencer, it did what I expected it would do. But my setups were pretty basic, so I never ran in the documented bugs.

I thought about selling it help me save up for a P~10... but I couldn't until today. I'm pretty sure, I would absolutely miss all the well known oppurtunities discovered by the many good people around here (especially CreativeSpiral and Razmo), which make this synth an absolute dream. Since I'm doing a lot of live cover music, it is the best analog synth to complement my Kronos, because you can simulate basically every other synth with it (at least in a way that nobody would hear a difference in a live setup with big loud PAs and such...).

I'm also waiting for you to do some videos with it ;-)
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2021, 07:36:42 AM »
Thanks for those kind comments, Jok3r.  They're helpful. 

You're right that the remaining Rev 2 bugs may not be a problem for me.  I've managed to get along just fine with my quite buggy Poly Evolvers.   But I still don't like the idea of buying brand new instruments with known problems.  It goes against one's gut instincts.  The idea will take some getting used to, after having high hopes literally for years.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 09:01:46 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2021, 12:32:09 PM »
I have to agree with Jok3r here, I don't think the bugs would be a problem in your case. Some users seem to have no problem, and don't even encounter the bugs at all, apparently...

The biggest con is probably the sequencer bug either way, as you can't use creativespirals VCM technique on both layers. (Personally, that bug affects me in many other ways too, unfortunately.) With the added sub-oscillator and the waveshaping of each wave, I don't think you'd use both layers that often anyhow, in your case.

The added mod-slots are also nice, if SCI would just add the vco fine tune as a mod destination, the VCM technique would occupy half as many... and I just don't believe that it wouldn't be possible, as with fixing the sequencer bug, or they would've said so LONG ago. I call BS on that excuse.

I think they've simply "clogged up" the OS, and that it would take thorough reworking (ie going "back" to fix it, bottom up), but that's just been my impression of this machines OS all along... and I don't trust SCI, at all, anymore.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2021, 01:35:17 PM »
That was one heck of an advertisement for the Rev2, Maxter, especially at the end! ???  I'm more with you on this one than you might think.

As for the sequencer, I generally use it only for modulation purposes, especially of the filter.  I would consider that an important capability, though.  Do the bugs affect this?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 02:00:09 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

maxter

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2021, 02:41:07 PM »
That was one heck of an advertisement for the Rev2, Maxter, especially at the end! ???  I'm more with you on this one than you might think.

Well, I'm just being honest, but see no point in holding back anymore either, at this point in time SCI definitely deserve some flack...

As for the sequencer, I generally use it only for modulation purposes, especially of the filter.  I would consider that an important capability, though.  Do the bugs affect this?

I don't know... I mainly used the P08 sequencers with "key step" mode, which the VCM method also relies on. That's the mode that I KNOW is not working as it should on Layer 2 of Rev2. As I've been quite "hands-off" awaiting the OS update fixing the sequencer, I haven't used the sequencers for a couple of years... I'd bet creativespiral knows though, if this bug only affects the "key step" mode or the other modes as well.
The Way the Truth and the Life

CCrow

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2021, 08:03:19 PM »
I sent Sequential an email.  I'm not doubting Djinn; I just can't believe it yet. 

As someone who recently got a Rev 2 and believed an update would be coming, I'm hoping you will get an email to the contrary or at least a more clear explanation of why you were told of a coming update.

This synth is so close to being the perfect synth for me, but the gated sequencer layer bug and a couple of other minor things keep it from being as good as it could be. I was hoping for the vintage mode knob or something else as well, but at least bug fixes would go a long way to fulfilling its potential.

Djinn

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2021, 03:18:10 AM »
I sent Sequential an email.  I'm not doubting Djinn; I just can't believe it yet. 

As someone who recently got a Rev 2 and believed an update would be coming, I'm hoping you will get an email to the contrary or at least a more clear explanation of why you were told of a coming update.

This synth is so close to being the perfect synth for me, but the gated sequencer layer bug and a couple of other minor things keep it from being as good as it could be. I was hoping for the vintage mode knob or something else as well, but at least bug fixes would go a long way to fulfilling its potential.

I totally agree and still have an increment of hope but that was the message I received

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2021, 07:31:08 AM »
I'm not questioning you, Djinn.  But I need an explanation for this unexpected change.  I've been waiting five years on this.  For the last two years, my set up has been insufficient to provide for my own compositions, and has had an annoying empty space reserved for a Rev2.  But as a result, I've let possibly two completed pieces be forgotten, because I lacked the third keyboard necessary to record them.  All this while, I could have bought a Rev2, a used Prophet '08 in mint condition, or some other synthesizer.  But instead, I sold one Prophet '08 and one Poly Evolver, and held onto the money for the the great day when the Rev2 would reach its full maturity, all based on the promises I was given. 

So, believe me, guys, I am ripped over this, to the point that I'm questioning that it could actually have happened.  DSI/Sequential has been "my" company for eleven years now, and to this day I still want to believe that all is well here. 

If the company would fix the main bugs and offer nothing more, I'd be content.  That's all I'm hoping for.  Who knows - maybe this heated discussion will persuade them to reconsider?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 12:07:16 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

jok3r

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Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2021, 07:38:27 AM »
I can not believe that they would tell Sacred Synthesis one thing, and Djinn another. I'm still hoping for a mistake, too.

But if it's really the case that they changed their opinion on that case, then I would be really interested in the reasons.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2021, 07:59:49 AM »
Jok3r, how many times did I encourage people here to believe this update was coming?  I did so on multiple threads to keep the spirits high.  And you often enough challenged me with, "You still sure about that?"  You even asked me once to clarify my use of the word "soon."  And who looks like the fool now?  :-[

« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 12:03:45 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2021, 08:34:54 AM »
I was going to buy a pro 3, but after my experience with dsi/sequential giving up on the rev2 I’m reconsidering.

Wish they would communicate like fractal audio with their customers and make things abundantly clear. Really disappointed…

Re: Rev 2 firmware is it just me?
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2021, 09:07:54 AM »
@double-u - yeah, Fractal Audio is really the gold standard of Musical Instrument companies...   such dedication to existing products... continual improvements on a monthly basis and transparency with customers.   And if there's a bug that is confirmed, they are on it sooo fast... often fixing bugs in a week or less.   They are really killin it, and reaping the rewards!   

I wish more MI companies would take that type of approach.   It results in such an enthusiastic and loyal customer base, and creates continuous buzz for products, with strong sales for existing products.   

If I were calling shots at Sequential / Focusrite, I would strongly look into dedicating more programming resources to support existing products and continue to evolve and improve them...  even if it means releasing one fewer new product every couple years. 

If you can continually improve products you sell, you'll see the continuous buzz on the internet / publications / forums for your products... and it will lead to strong sales for years on existing designs...  you don't have to go through the whole electrical design phase as often and parts sourcing and mechanical considerations.  Just devote more resources to existing instruments and firmware programming!   Leave no bug un-squashed and bring new features and innovations to products on a more regular basis.   

I understand they've said that with the Rev2, there's no more "space" for fw improvements... which seems sort of odd considering how cheap memory is... but if that's the case, so be it.   Just fixing up remaining bugs would be sufficient to make community happy though.   For all future products, I would hope that the few extra bucks would be spent to ensure "running out of firmware space" is never an issue. 

Sequential makes amazing products (my fav synth company), but it does often feel like they could be better with ongoing support and some firmware updates.   Release one fewer product every two or three years and devote more human resources to continued development of existing products...  I think it would make a lot of people really happy, and be a great business decision resulting in stronger continued sales and more loyalty. 

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/