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Focusrite Buys Sequential

LPF83

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2021, 12:45:43 PM »
In the above post I found a familiar sentiment.   I think the acquisition will allow better depth in future product QA/QC.   The Novation influence will likely lead to easier OS updates and software.   Meanwhile , Dave's knack for excelling in ergonomics, among other things, will be a help to Novation.   

If you don't want something made outside of your home country, I completely understand the prerogative.    However, I don't think quality needs to be the worry in this day in age just because its coming from the "Far East".   At least not in the electronic instrument market, or should I say electronics market period.      I'm seriously impressed with the ASM Hydasynth- which I think is Chinese assembled.  Not sure where the Summit was put together, but ditto.    Another one that always struck me as solid was Nord.  I think that was Swedish made.    Except for the dinky keys, the rest of the Lead 4 was like a tank.  Never a issue with any of these.

Many Chinese facilities have the capability to manufacture high quality goods.  Part of the reason for the stigma is that some very high profile media cases have emphasized cultural differences in US vs Chinese manufacturing. 

One example that comes to mind is the Lumber Liquidators case.  They offshored manufacturing of wood flooring materials to China -- many of the floors, once installed in homes were emitting insanely dangerous and ongoing levels of formaldehyde into the air of people's homes, levels that would never pass inspection of US based manufacturing facilities because of our regulations.  So, when investigators went to the facility in China, the facility said "we told them we could produce CARB compliant materials but that it would cost extra... they didn't want those, they wanted the cheapest price possible".

So, where does the problem lie there?   Well part of it is the US company that used offshoring as a way to circumvent regulation and lower cost of production, opting for the cheapest shit possible.   But then again, the Chinese company knowingly produced and shipped a product that could endanger human lives, just to win the contract.

Basically there is this "dynamic of evil" that can form in offshoring work, because it disperses potential accountability across cultural borders.  And because of that there have been a lot of horror stories emerging from Chinese manufacturing, that aren't an indication of whether good quality is possible, its more of an ethical question about how low is someone willing to stoop to make a buck.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2021, 12:49:09 PM »
Let’s be honest, “made in China” really has no negative context anymore in a quality context.

The main reason that China is the next superpower is their ability to make stuff that basically no one else can anymore, it was laughable when Apple marketed the MacPro 2013 as made in America when nearly everything about it was made in China and that was 8 years ago.




LPF83

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2021, 05:40:50 PM »
Let’s be honest, “made in China” really has no negative context anymore in a quality context.

The main reason that China is the next superpower is their ability to make stuff that basically no one else can anymore, it was laughable when Apple marketed the MacPro 2013 as made in America when nearly everything about it was made in China and that was 8 years ago.

I agree with part of what you're saying or alluding to, that offshoring to a foreign nation comes with the cost of skill loss and the inability to self-sustain becomes a natural consequence of that.   There has been an increased awareness of this in the last couple of years though, it more or less just becomes a question of whether enough people are paying attention.

To say "Made in China" no longer has a stigma attached (what I think you meant when you used the word context), I think you'd be an outlier if you live in North America and that's your position, because its an understatement to say the vast majority of folks here would disagree.  Whether or not that stigma is warranted in all cases?  Yes that's another story and I'm sure opinions and anecdotal experiences differ...... but I covered some of the reasons why well enough in the post before this one.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 05:42:31 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2021, 06:48:22 PM »
In the above post I found a familiar sentiment.   I think the acquisition will allow better depth in future product QA/QC.   The Novation influence will likely lead to easier OS updates and software.   Meanwhile , Dave's knack for excelling in ergonomics, among other things, will be a help to Novation.   

If you don't want something made outside of your home country, I completely understand the prerogative.    However, I don't think quality needs to be the worry in this day in age just because its coming from the "Far East".   At least not in the electronic instrument market, or should I say electronics market period.      I'm seriously impressed with the ASM Hydasynth- which I think is Chinese assembled.  Not sure where the Summit was put together, but ditto.    Another one that always struck me as solid was Nord.  I think that was Swedish made.    Except for the dinky keys, the rest of the Lead 4 was like a tank.  Never a issue with any of these.

Many Chinese facilities have the capability to manufacture high quality goods.  Part of the reason for the stigma is that some very high profile media cases have emphasized cultural differences in US vs Chinese manufacturing. 

One example that comes to mind is the Lumber Liquidators case.  They offshored manufacturing of wood flooring materials to China -- many of the floors, once installed in homes were emitting insanely dangerous and ongoing levels of formaldehyde into the air of people's homes, levels that would never pass inspection of US based manufacturing facilities because of our regulations.  So, when investigators went to the facility in China, the facility said "we told them we could produce CARB compliant materials but that it would cost extra... they didn't want those, they wanted the cheapest price possible".

So, where does the problem lie there?   Well part of it is the US company that used offshoring as a way to circumvent regulation and lower cost of production, opting for the cheapest shit possible.   But then again, the Chinese company knowingly produced and shipped a product that could endanger human lives, just to win the contract.

Basically there is this "dynamic of evil" that can form in offshoring work, because it disperses potential accountability across cultural borders.  And because of that there have been a lot of horror stories emerging from Chinese manufacturing, that aren't an indication of whether good quality is possible, its more of an ethical question about how low is someone willing to stoop to make a buck.

Let's be honest, the average North American doesn't care about the lives of Chinese workers unless said workers are flying into town from Wuhan.

For me it's more a question of completely cancelling someone's job and outsourcing it. I am not saying that's what Sequential is doing but if they are closing their US manufacturing facility and allowing Focusrite to outsource it completely to China then that's really shitty. This is why I think much like Fender or Gibson or guitar brands they have different tier instruments. A higher tier American manufactured line and an outsourced lower tier line. Even a Japanese company like Ibanez does this with their "Made In Japan" tier, "Made In Korea" tier and "Made In Indonesia" tier.

But completely obliterating established jobs or even the option for a tiered system and just allowing the entire process to be completely outsourced? It feels really uninspired and doesn't make me want to take an interest in said company. I'm sure Dave doesn't give a damn what we think, he's made his money and I guess that's the end goal for most entrepreneurs.

LPF83

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2021, 07:29:53 PM »
Let's be honest, the average North American doesn't care about the lives of Chinese workers unless said workers are flying into town from Wuhan.

This is why I said what I did about the responsibility for the health risks for being shared.  In the case I highlighted, the Chinese factory was saying they can meet CARB (California Air Resources Board) regulatory requirements for manufactured wood floors at a premium price, but the USA outsourcer said they didn't care about that, they wanted the cheapest price possible (basically corporate greed didn't care that many customers would likely die a slow painful death from cancer due to formaldehyde exposure).  This has been a repeating theme in the history of corporate greed, it's really not something new.

Anyway was mostly explaining that it's not always about "perceived sturdiness" of a product, it's all of the ethical concerns that seem to get blurred in the process of overseas manufacturing.

For me it's more a question of completely cancelling someone's job and outsourcing it. I am not saying that's what Sequential is doing but if they are closing their US manufacturing facility and allowing Focusrite to outsource it completely to China then that's really shitty. This is why I think much like Fender or Gibson or guitar brands they have different tier instruments. A higher tier American manufactured line and an outsourced lower tier line. Even a Japanese company like Ibanez does this with their "Made In Japan" tier, "Made In Korea" tier and "Made In Indonesia" tier.

But completely obliterating established jobs or even the option for a tiered system and just allowing the entire process to be completely outsourced? It feels really uninspired and doesn't make me want to take an interest in said company. I'm sure Dave doesn't give a damn what we think, he's made his money and I guess that's the end goal for most entrepreneurs.

Job preservation is something I personally do care about, but I also think the average consumer is hypocritical about this issue.  They will condemn low-cost manufacturing in the name of job preservation, and then vote with their wallet by buying the cheapest products they can find, making noise out of their mouths and arse at the same time.  In the case of synths, everybody likes cheap synths that sound good.... in order to keep jobs in North America are they willing to pay twice the price?   Take a look at the Moog One -- honestly if I were a fan of the sound, I would have bought one a long time ago....  It's a Made in USA poly synth that costs less than a Made in USA poly synth cost in the late 70's or 80's adjusted for inflation, yet most complain about the price and many won't consider synths that cost more than a few hundred bucks, or certainly nothing over $2k.

In terms of what Dave decides to do, I think we should wait and see, it's too early to start assuming Sequential synths will be made in China soon.  I'm sure he's aware that Moog's "handcrafted in USA" strategy has worked out well for them, even if it's made their product line more expensive.  He is also at a point in his career where he does not need to chase the fast buck, and no doubt cares about the Prophet pedigree and lasting legacy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the chip shortage problem had everything to do with his decision to sell.  Something like that can destroy a small company in short order, so he may have been forced to do what was necessary to partner with someone who had more power in the supply chain... and if that means Dave Smith's synth designs put together in China versus Sequential just closing their doors, then honestly I'll take the Chinese made synths.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 07:31:27 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2021, 10:10:40 AM »
Let's be honest, the average North American doesn't care about the lives of Chinese workers unless said workers are flying into town from Wuhan.

This is why I said what I did about the responsibility for the health risks for being shared.  In the case I highlighted, the Chinese factory was saying they can meet CARB (California Air Resources Board) regulatory requirements for manufactured wood floors at a premium price, but the USA outsourcer said they didn't care about that, they wanted the cheapest price possible (basically corporate greed didn't care that many customers would likely die a slow painful death from cancer due to formaldehyde exposure).  This has been a repeating theme in the history of corporate greed, it's really not something new.

Anyway was mostly explaining that it's not always about "perceived sturdiness" of a product, it's all of the ethical concerns that seem to get blurred in the process of overseas manufacturing.

For me it's more a question of completely cancelling someone's job and outsourcing it. I am not saying that's what Sequential is doing but if they are closing their US manufacturing facility and allowing Focusrite to outsource it completely to China then that's really shitty. This is why I think much like Fender or Gibson or guitar brands they have different tier instruments. A higher tier American manufactured line and an outsourced lower tier line. Even a Japanese company like Ibanez does this with their "Made In Japan" tier, "Made In Korea" tier and "Made In Indonesia" tier.

But completely obliterating established jobs or even the option for a tiered system and just allowing the entire process to be completely outsourced? It feels really uninspired and doesn't make me want to take an interest in said company. I'm sure Dave doesn't give a damn what we think, he's made his money and I guess that's the end goal for most entrepreneurs.

Job preservation is something I personally do care about, but I also think the average consumer is hypocritical about this issue.  They will condemn low-cost manufacturing in the name of job preservation, and then vote with their wallet by buying the cheapest products they can find, making noise out of their mouths and arse at the same time.  In the case of synths, everybody likes cheap synths that sound good.... in order to keep jobs in North America are they willing to pay twice the price?   Take a look at the Moog One -- honestly if I were a fan of the sound, I would have bought one a long time ago....  It's a Made in USA poly synth that costs less than a Made in USA poly synth cost in the late 70's or 80's adjusted for inflation, yet most complain about the price and many won't consider synths that cost more than a few hundred bucks, or certainly nothing over $2k.

In terms of what Dave decides to do, I think we should wait and see, it's too early to start assuming Sequential synths will be made in China soon.  I'm sure he's aware that Moog's "handcrafted in USA" strategy has worked out well for them, even if it's made their product line more expensive.  He is also at a point in his career where he does not need to chase the fast buck, and no doubt cares about the Prophet pedigree and lasting legacy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the chip shortage problem had everything to do with his decision to sell.  Something like that can destroy a small company in short order, so he may have been forced to do what was necessary to partner with someone who had more power in the supply chain... and if that means Dave Smith's synth designs put together in China versus Sequential just closing their doors, then honestly I'll take the Chinese made synths.

I've actually seen comments on social media of people openly bashing people who own expensive gear and even the gear itself simply out of spite for not being able to afford it. I have never once seen the opposite occur. Generally people who can afford expensive instruments are too busy being happy and enjoying themselves to waste energy.

Personally for me, if Sequential do decide to take their entire production process overseas and close down their US based manufacturing all together, it very well may be the cure for my GAS. As of right now, all this news has done has motivated me to think about what I'm purchasing more carefully and consider buying more Sequential gear (things I never really focused on-OB6-Pro 3) before the entire operation is "Made In China."

A Thousand Eyes

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2021, 10:25:59 AM »
Personally for me, if Sequential do decide to take their entire production process overseas and close down their US based manufacturing all together, it very well may be the cure for my GAS.

I agree with this sentiment 100%.

LPF83

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2021, 01:15:00 PM »
I've actually seen comments on social media of people openly bashing people who own expensive gear and even the gear itself simply out of spite for not being able to afford it. I have never once seen the opposite occur. Generally people who can afford expensive instruments are too busy being happy and enjoying themselves to waste energy.

The reason owners of nice gear never bash those without is often because they were in that position once themselves.  I wasn't born with a synth hardware budget, I worked for it.  And I'm actually thankful for my younger years when I struggled, because every time I sit down to the gear I have now it reminds me of a time when I had so much free time and creative energy but didn't have the proper gear to channel it.  Now I long for the days when I had so much free time!


Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

dizzy

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2021, 06:01:45 PM »
I've always thought novation made solid reliable stuff especially for the price, they are my goto suggestion when people are getting started and want to buy some gear. I think it could be cool.

I can also see a world where litigious or aggressive competitors might end up taking a lot of time, energy and money from what is still a relatively small business. Something a bigger org with a global footprint is better equipped to deal with and frees Dave and his team focus on making cool synths.

I've always liked the peak/summit, I just didnt really like the core sound, just always seemed a bit to polite and felt a bit meh to me. The reverb sounded lush though. I'm not gonna buy a synth just for the reverb though. A collab/cross over would be cool to see.

It's inevitable that Dave will step back at some stage, I'd say it's better to do it now and he can help shape the culture and work practises and be there for the adjustment and learning period.

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2021, 06:54:06 PM »
I'm wondering about the transfer of an active warranty. I just bought my OB-6 a month ago and registered it on the Sequential site. I just went onto the Novation site for a Bass Station related thing and noticed this at the bottom of the page.

Why am I seeing a selection of brands?

We are a family of brands, all committed to removing barriers to creativity. You’ll find the products you own from all of our brands in one place, streamlined to get you what you need, as fast as possible, with a single sign-on for all.

And listed with the rest of the Focusrite family of brands was Sequential. It would be cool to have a log-in account and to be able to view my Sequential products in a similar manner as my Novation ones. I dig uniformity. But yeah still wonder about how the warranty stuff will carry over.

Pym

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2021, 02:40:47 AM »
Nothing about our business is changing any time soon, including our warranties

I'm wondering about the transfer of an active warranty. I just bought my OB-6 a month ago and registered it on the Sequential site. I just went onto the Novation site for a Bass Station related thing and noticed this at the bottom of the page.

Why am I seeing a selection of brands?

We are a family of brands, all committed to removing barriers to creativity. You’ll find the products you own from all of our brands in one place, streamlined to get you what you need, as fast as possible, with a single sign-on for all.

And listed with the rest of the Focusrite family of brands was Sequential. It would be cool to have a log-in account and to be able to view my Sequential products in a similar manner as my Novation ones. I dig uniformity. But yeah still wonder about how the warranty stuff will carry over.
Sequential

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2021, 11:17:40 AM »
I'm wondering about the transfer of an active warranty. I just bought my OB-6 a month ago and registered it on the Sequential site. I just went onto the Novation site for a Bass Station related thing and noticed this at the bottom of the page.

Why am I seeing a selection of brands?

We are a family of brands, all committed to removing barriers to creativity. You’ll find the products you own from all of our brands in one place, streamlined to get you what you need, as fast as possible, with a single sign-on for all.

And listed with the rest of the Focusrite family of brands was Sequential. It would be cool to have a log-in account and to be able to view my Sequential products in a similar manner as my Novation ones. I dig uniformity. But yeah still wonder about how the warranty stuff will carry over.

I would love to use a module like Components to manage my PRO 3 library/wavetables. And I would love to have a proper forum dedicated to my Novation instruments  :)

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2021, 12:08:00 PM »
Dave says they will still be US made. WHEW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf5TnMnlyKg

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2021, 12:55:17 PM »
Always my favorite words coming from Dave Smith:

"We've got an awesome new product coming out...mmm...July, August or so, maybe another one later this year."
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2021, 12:59:30 PM »
Always my favorite words coming from Dave Smith:

"We've got an awesome new product coming out...mmm...July, August or so, maybe another one later this year."

Likely an OBX reissue and a Pro One reissue.

jok3r

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2021, 12:56:43 PM »
Today the prices for all Sequential instruments went up 200€ at Thomann. Does this have something to do with Focusrite, or are this finally the delayed results of rare materials all over the world?
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2021, 02:54:28 PM »
Today the prices for all Sequential instruments went up 200€ at Thomann. Does this have something to do with Focusrite, or are this finally the delayed results of rare materials all over the world?

Likely the later. The cost of aluminum has increased a lot.

Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2021, 03:59:18 AM »
1. No man (or company) is an island.
2. King Canute got his feet wet.
3. Uli Behringer’s empire is a hard fact to ignore.
4. Focusrite size adds muscle to both market presence and procurement. As has already been said adding new markets to DSI’s list and for purchasing and procurement especially for specialist items needed for keyboard manufacture (E.g. keybeds, displays, DSP, Flash Memory) reducing cost and ensuring availability.

It's not in Focusrite's interest to undermine the DSI/Sequential brand.
So most of this is good news for Dave Smith fans.

My view of Focusrite is that it is much more than just Novation. Novation has a very different niche to DSI.
Big synth stuff: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkR38XLkFear5Sf9QypQvA
| Kurzweil Forte | Casio Privia PX 5s | Nord Electro 3 73 | Studiologic Sledge Black| Roland Juno Di | DSI Prophet 6 | Oberheim DPX 1 | EMU Esi 4000 | 2 x Yamaha Tx7 |

LPF83

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Re: Focusrite Buys Sequential
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2021, 05:19:00 AM »
It's interesting because at Sweetwater I see price increases on some products (like the Rev2 and Prophet 5) but not others (like Prophet 10).

No doubt aluminum prices got crazy.  I had a 4-tier keyboard stand shipped from Jaspers in Germany to the USA one year ago, and if I ordered the same stand today it would cost 40% more.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were some pricing adjustments under the Focusrite brand.  A larger company is more likely to align their pricing strategy with lots of projections and what not -- exactly the kind of stuff Dave doesn't like to do.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.