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Vintage Knob Feature Request, and Analysis

Vintage Knob Feature Request, and Analysis
« on: March 08, 2021, 03:28:42 PM »
Vintage Knob Feature Request:

Either:
1. Adjust the Max Values of the Vintage Knob so Filter ADR Timing is scaled down by a factor of 2x and Filter Cutoff Values down by a factor of 5x.  (and a couple other slight variations to values as outlined in video below... ie: add a bit of offset between Osc1/2 variance, shuffle max delta between voices)

OR

2. Add another variant of the Vintage Knob, selectable from Globals, so instead of just "Off, On" choices, we have "Slop, Vintage 1, Vintage 2"  For Vintage 2 mode, use the exact same methodology and logic, but just change the max values as outlined/recommended in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7tdp5tvopU

Based on the analysis I did, and being a programmer (I know, dangerous statement following.. ;) ), I'm guessing this should be a fairly trivial task / easy to implement... seems that there's probably just a small lookup table of max offsets stored, and by changing a couple dozen stored values and re-saving firmware, it could be done in a short period...  of course, I could be mistaken... may be more involved, but the request remains :)

I'm really stoked on having the Vintage Knob, and the methodology for how its implemented is great... but based on working on this topic of voice variance / voice modeling over the past few years, I just think that adjusting the max values will result in it being even better throughout the entire range of the knob... improved vintage character at lower values and also still be usable at 3/4 or even max settings, without having extremely dissonant filter and env temporal offsets.

FYI:  I didn't mention in the video:  I know the initial response might just be "well, just turn the knob down, problem solved"...  while that holds true for many other situations, it doesn't work well in this case, because this one knob controls a large variety of different offsets, and some of them are "off by different magnitudes".    ie:  In my opinion, the Osc 1/2 tuning total offset range is perfect, the ADR timing offsets need to be scaled down by 2x, and the Cutoff variance needs to be scaled back by 5x or so to be more musical/usable.   So, if I turn the dial way back to avoid the extreme dissonance in filter variance, then I loose all the interesting offsets to Osc tuning per voice.   

Again, really great job overall on the implementation, and thanks for porting the Vintage Knob over to P6!  It's great to have on this synth. 

« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 04:08:24 PM by creativespiral »

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Re: Vintage Knob Feature Request, and Analysis
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2021, 09:28:50 PM »
Ey, thanks a lot for this video. It is very useful to have a detailed explanation of how the vintage knob works.
Overall, the only thing I don't agree with you is when you said that some results are not good (or useless), on a maximum aperture of the knob. Because, if I think it is too much, you just can turn the knob to the middle, and there you will have the result that you want. Of course is not exactly the same because all the parameters will move at the same time (tune and envelope time, for example), but, even though a vintage synth won't have that behaviour, I think that having the possibility of a waaay to unreal result may conclude in some interesting results when using the synth in a more experimental way.
But again, thanks for the video. Very useful and educative.

Re: Vintage Knob Feature Request, and Analysis
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2021, 09:50:48 PM »
Wow, thanks for this. I hope Sequential will consider this

Re: Vintage Knob Feature Request, and Analysis
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2021, 10:23:23 PM »
Ey, thanks a lot for this video. It is very useful to have a detailed explanation of how the vintage knob works.
Overall, the only thing I don't agree with you is when you said that some results are not good (or useless), on a maximum aperture of the knob. Because, if I think it is too much, you just can turn the knob to the middle, and there you will have the result that you want. Of course is not exactly the same because all the parameters will move at the same time (tune and envelope time, for example), but, even though a vintage synth won't have that behaviour, I think that having the possibility of a waaay to unreal result may conclude in some interesting results when using the synth in a more experimental way.
But again, thanks for the video. Very useful and educative.

You bet.... my feeling is that, if possible, the optimal solution would be to just add a third option to the Globals 3 menu...  so instead of two options (Slop, Vintage), you have three (Slop, Vintage 1, Vintage 2).   Based on the analysis I did, it seems like the max offsets are probably just stored as a small array of numbers... if there could just be another instance of the Vintage mode available with max values like I outlined, it would give an option for a lot more vintage (yet very musical) variance.   

I've spent a lot of time over the past few years researching and experimenting with per voice variance, on a variety of instruments, and I feel pretty strongly that the values I outlined would result in some great sounding character options for P6... improving the vintage 80s type of feel at low and medium values, and making higher values much more usable / less dissonant.     
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 10:24:58 PM by creativespiral »

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2 - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/