Desktop/Module synth recommendation

Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« on: March 02, 2021, 08:00:38 PM »
Here is one of the questions that has no real answer, but perhaps will provide some ideas for me to look at. On other forums (lookin’ at you gslutz), this would be met with some, umm, cynicism, and probably rightly so. But people here are definitely a cut above.

Ultimately, this is really just a thinly disguised excuse to buy a synthesizer, so I think everyone can get on board with this. It would be cool, though, if it resulted in a synth that meets some desires/expectations.

I share synth duties at my church and would like to supplement the keyboard with some different sounds. The music at our church probably can be described as “pop” in sound for the most part (think Chris Tomlin style for those into this genre). It is piano driven (very nice 7 foot Yamaha grand). A small orchestra sometimes (trumpet, trombone, French horn, a couple violins, clarinet). And a pretty decent Yamaha drum kit to keep things in sync. My wife plays the drums and is much cooler than I am (worthless bit of data here but just sayin’ in case she reads this).

The keyboard at the church is a Yamaha S90 XS (88 keys, weighted, old motif type sounds). I helped pick it out some years ago, so even though I am not a fan of it now, I can’t really complain. The synth player is really mostly expected to play big pad chords and fill in the base (and bass) sound behind everything. I sometimes bring in my Prophet 6 and use that to provide a different sound than what the S90 can do. I always end up just setting the P6 by my side but slightly out of reach and using MIDI to play it from the Yamaha S90. There really isn’t enough space to do anything different. And changing up the workflow isn’t practical given that it is a shared duty and the other synth players (while excellent musicians) are not really into the technical side of keyboards.

So the ideal synth would be some kind of smaller desktop style module that is portable and can do nice pads. My Prophet 6 is pretty great for this, but there are shortcomings. First, the keyboard version is not helping me in this environment. Plus I think it confuses most people in the church. WHY DOES HE HAVE THAT KEYBOARD THERE AND NEVER PLAY IT? The black magic of MIDI is beyond the average person as it turns out). But it also does make the transport that much more difficult (remember that I am looking for a synth buying excuse here). But there is also the tuning issue. I’m not sure if my P6 has issues, but this last week was a good of example of it being a PITA. We had a practice on Wednesday. And it was tricky to get tuned to the piano. I ended up working with it after (using a tuner app on my phone) and realized it the pitch wheel was whacked out. I recalibrated that and got it back to where it needed to be. Then on Sunday, I had to recalibrate the synth at the start of practice. And by the end of practice, it was off again. I ran the recalibration again and got it back on pitch. And I tested after the service and it was still on pitch ... but yikes. That is more pressure than I need. I don’t have a good ear for pitch and so don’t know if the keyboard is off while I am playing, but the other musicians there do. They are professionals (as in they make their living as musicians). I am a software engineer ... ‘nuf said.

So that entire previous paragraph was meant to convey my reticence with using an old school analog synth in this situation. I want something that I can be sure is going to be spot on with respect to tuning. But ... I really want someone to explain to me why the new Prophet 10 module is the exact one I need and won’t have this problem. :) You can see where my desires lead me.

So some of the basic needs/wants/requirements driving this:
 - Portable, keyboard not useful, so desktop/module unit
 - Pads are the main need. Perhaps a monster pipe organ sound for a hymn but not required.
 - Fit in with my P6 at home and my Nord Stage 88
 - Lots of blinking lights to look cool (hehe - just kidding ... well okay I do like lights)

I am, of course, really thinking that I want some kind of Sequential/DSI type of synth. I so love the sounds. Things I have looked at:
 - P12 module. I better hurry. Can I still get one?
 - P10 rev4. Mmmmmm. But will it have tuning issues in the middle of a church service?
 - Rev2 module. This seems like a solid choice.
 - Access Virus. Some of the pad sounds are pretty nice. But Armin Van Buuren doesn’t go to my church.
 - John Bowen Solaris module. The idea of this is super cool. The sounds I have heard don’t inspire me. But ... man this seems so super cool. Did I say super cool already? But it kind of sounds like my old Yamaha DX7.
 - Nord Wave 2 desktop. Sadly, this doesn’t exist. I do like Nord products, though.
 - Sequential OB6. Wow this would be great, but I’m not sure it would fit in our church style. Maybe?
 - Your choice here. What would you recommend?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 08:04:45 PM by markwilkins »

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2021, 05:15:26 AM »
Novation Peak should also make the list.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2021, 06:29:27 AM »
I'd consider the Sequential Rev2, Novation Summit, or the Modal Electronics Cobalt 8M Module

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2021, 06:37:45 AM »
Novation Peak should also make the list.

This does look/sound promising. I have seen the name and am aware of it but had never actually looked at one (where "look" means search the interwebs and watch youtube videos). But it does indeed appear to be a strong contender.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2021, 08:45:34 AM »
I meant the module forms, of course.  And the Peak, not the Summit.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 08:49:53 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2021, 07:48:36 PM »
I'd consider the Sequential Rev2, Novation Summit, or the Modal Electronics Cobalt 8M Module

Thanks for the additional recommendation on the Novation (Peak). I’m glad I asked my novel-length question here. Otherwise I would not have looked at it; I am thinking the Novation might possibly be a really good choice for me. The only practical option for me to “demo” any of these is via the internet unfortunately. So I feel I am missing some of the appeal of the Rev2. I really want it to be my favorite, but all of the videos and sound clips are leading me to the Novation at the moment.

Assuming I do indeed buy the Novation (or something), I will follow up here with a rave review of whatever I end up with. It takes me a long time to reach a real verdict on anything, so my initial default reaction is to be super pleased with new things.

jg666

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Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2021, 03:22:21 AM »
When I bought my Rev2 a few years ago, I also had a play with the Peak at the same time. My thoughts at the time were

1) The Rev2 factory patches sounded much better to my ears than the Peak

2) I found it a lot easier to create nice sounding patches myself on the Rev2. I hadn’t played around with either before that day so it was an indication of the ease of getting a decent sound out of the Rev2 (for me anyway)

3) The Novation Peak is a much deeper synth which allows you to do a lot more in the long term.

4) They are both great synths :)
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2021, 11:32:03 AM »

So some of the basic needs/wants/requirements driving this:
 - Portable, keyboard not useful, so desktop/module unit
 - Pads are the main need. Perhaps a monster pipe organ sound for a hymn but not required.
 - Fit in with my P6 at home and my Nord Stage 88
 - Lots of blinking lights to look cool (hehe - just kidding ... well okay I do like lights)

I am, of course, really thinking that I want some kind of Sequential/DSI type of synth. I so love the sounds. Things I have looked at:
 - P12 module. I better hurry. Can I still get one?
 - P10 rev4. Mmmmmm. But will it have tuning issues in the middle of a church service?
 - Rev2 module. This seems like a solid choice.
 - Access Virus. Some of the pad sounds are pretty nice. But Armin Van Buuren doesn’t go to my church.
 - John Bowen Solaris module. The idea of this is super cool. The sounds I have heard don’t inspire me. But ... man this seems so super cool. Did I say super cool already? But it kind of sounds like my old Yamaha DX7.
 - Nord Wave 2 desktop. Sadly, this doesn’t exist. I do like Nord products, though.
 - Sequential OB6. Wow this would be great, but I’m not sure it would fit in our church style. Maybe?
 - Your choice here. What would you recommend?

Those are all overkill for this use case IMO.  I mean you can't go wrong with a Dave Smith synth ever, but I wouldn't lug one back and forth for a church gig myself.  Too many chances for it to get damaged/stolen/lost, and it's not like anyone but you will even care that it's a DSI.

Frankly you could run any number of very cheap apps from an iPhone/iPad that would more than satisfy your needs.  In fact, Alchemy within Garageband on iOS would be amazing for this, and you can use the touchscreen in it's morph pad to morph between 8 different timbres per patch.  If I were you, that's what I would do.

If you must have a non-phone/tablet device, then I'd suggest a Micromonsta 2.  Very affordable, very small, sound amazing.

If the church is paying for it and you just want an excuse to get a desktop synth on someone else's dime, then I'd go with the P10 rev4 or OB6 all day.  IMO the P12 really benefits from more knobs, even if the UI for the desktop is quite good.  And the Virus... I just can't recommend a product from any company that has sat on it's ass for 10 years.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 11:37:48 AM by proteus-ix »

LPF83

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Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2021, 11:52:45 AM »
  And the Virus... I just can't recommend a product from any company that has sat on it's ass for 10 years.

I got the impression the OP isn't interested in the overall Virus sound, but if that's even a consideration I'd look at the Waldorf Kyra.  They were on sale for $1999 some time back.  Then again maybe Iridium should be on the list.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2021, 07:24:59 PM »
@proteus-ix regarding using iPad type of soft synth: That is a very practical and probably really good solution. I hadn’t been thinking of that, so it’s a good call out. However, I’m using this exercise partially as an excuse to buy myself another relatively good synth. So I like your recommendation for the P10 better :)  I do think that would be ideal for what I want aside from cost. But since I have a P6, I’m thinking something with a little less overlap makes sense in the near term for me (for use outside of the church gig). I do fully intend to eventually own a P10 rev4. Next time around maybe. And I will take a look at the Micromonsta; it’s another one I’ve never heard of. I am apparently not well versed in what is available these days.

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2021, 04:32:06 PM »
I got the impression the OP isn't interested in the overall Virus sound, but if that's even a consideration I'd look at the Waldorf Kyra.  They were on sale for $1999 some time back.  Then again maybe Iridium should be on the list.

Thanks for mentioning this. I’ve been listening to various samples/demos of the Iridium over the last couple of days now. I’ve been vaguely aware of the Quantum but have never really investigated. This certainly has some appeal to me. Something to keep in mind in the future.

I have placed an order for a Novation Peak. It seems like it will fit the niche use I am targeting (church gig) but should also be a nice complement to my P6 and Nord Stage. Regardless of how it gets used, I’m sure I will have a wonderful time playing with it and tweaking sounds. Thanks to those who suggested looking into it.

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2021, 01:49:55 PM »
I promised/planned to post back here with a follow-up on the Peak. I have had it now for perhaps 10 weeks. Curiously, I am still rather uncertain how I feel about this synth. I am happy to have purchased it and have had an enjoyable time playing around with it. It is very intuitive to use, is beautifully and solidly built, fun to program, has a zillion 3rd party presets, and seems to be a wonderful synth overall.

One of the primary intended purposes for this synth was to be able to use it while playing during the worship sets at the church I attend. I still have not taken it in to try it out for that. I have been unable to program a sound that makes me happy for blending in with other instruments. I play super basic stuff at our church. The main goal is to be a backup for the other instruments and to make the overall sound "big" (at least that's my goal). It seems dead simple, but I have spent quite a lot of time trying to program (or steal or modify) a patch to do this and have failed to find what I want. I have been trying to create a basic "brassy" kind of patch that is very easy to create on the P6. J3PO has a great 6-ish minute video describing such a patch that I use with my P6. It's really just a saw wave with a few mods.

My basic test for trying it out is to either play it solo or to play it via MIDI from my Nord Stage 3 along with a "mostly" basic piano patch. And I can't make a patch that sounds good to me. Admittedly, I am absolute rubbish at programming synths and have the musical capabilities of a mediocre 12 year old piano student (despite many years of playing and being on the older end of the human age spectrum). Still ... I do have an idea of the sound I like and probably not a bad ear for what might sound okay simply due to many years of fiddling with this stuff. I just can't get there with my skill set.

There is one kind of funny/interesting anecdote from my attempts to create a usable patch. I had spent maybe 2 or 3 hours one evening tweaking a patch and even having my wife who is pretty musical help me dial it in. I finally gave up and went to bed. The next morning I went down to my office (the covid inspired basement that, serendipitously, has my work desk within 2 feet of a few nice synthesizers including the Peak) and turned everything on. Well, who can blame me if the synthesizers got turned on while powering up the laptop. I mean, really. It's just more keyboards. We are programmers. We need keyboards. Before looking at Slack/email/emergencies, I started playing the Peak using the patch I had worked on the previous evening. And it was wonderful! I was thinking it was quite perfect. Maybe my ears from the evening before were just worn out? I verified that was the synth I was playing ... and was quite happy. Woot! Oops - not so much. Long story short: I figured out that another keyboard I turned on adjusted the volume of the Peak to 0 and the Prophet 6 to "lots". I was simply playing the Prophet 6, and it was beautiful. Dang. The Peak wasn't even making a peep.

So. I dunno. I think that a true musician would turn the Peak into a masterpiece. I am, however, unable thus far to make it musical. I will definitely keep trying because it is, in spite of my meager skills, quite amazing. But to sum it up in a trite and silly way: The Prophet 6, to my ears, has a musical soul. It effortlessly sounds beautiful. The Peak sounds sterile to me.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2021, 02:25:08 PM »
Musical instruments can surprise you.  Sometimes you think you have the best one, but it just doesn't appeal to you.  I once had a Minimoog Voyager Old School with a CP-251 module and a Moog Volume pedal.  I had the whole outfit, which cost me a small fortune.  As it turned out, it didn't appeal to me in the least.  I thought I must be crazy, but no. 

Certain instruments, for a host of reasons, strike us as wonderful or almost abhorrent.  It could be related to the interface, the appearance, a nearly subliminal tonal character, or some sort of impression or association.  Regardless, it's best to follow your artistic sense and choose the instrument that seems the most natural for you.  In your case, it clearly is the Prophet-6. 

I would suggest that you follow, rather try to lead.  Don't try to force the Peak on yourself.  You'll only be wasting the time and effort that could be more productively spent with the right instrument.  Go with the P-6.  And don't worry about not liking the Peak.

I'm curious, though.  Have you tried the Rev2?  It might not be to your liking if you especially like the rawness and immediacy of the P-6.  But the Rev2 does stand between the P-6 and the Peak in a sense.  If you can grasp the programming, it offers far more musical power than either.   
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 02:32:18 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2021, 04:09:05 PM »
I promised/planned to post back here with a follow-up on the Peak. I have had it now for perhaps 10 weeks. Curiously, I am still rather uncertain how I feel about this synth. I am happy to have purchased it and have had an enjoyable time playing around with it. It is very intuitive to use, is beautifully and solidly built, fun to program, has a zillion 3rd party presets, and seems to be a wonderful synth overall.

One of the primary intended purposes for this synth was to be able to use it while playing during the worship sets at the church I attend. I still have not taken it in to try it out for that. I have been unable to program a sound that makes me happy for blending in with other instruments. I play super basic stuff at our church. The main goal is to be a backup for the other instruments and to make the overall sound "big" (at least that's my goal). It seems dead simple, but I have spent quite a lot of time trying to program (or steal or modify) a patch to do this and have failed to find what I want. I have been trying to create a basic "brassy" kind of patch that is very easy to create on the P6. J3PO has a great 6-ish minute video describing such a patch that I use with my P6. It's really just a saw wave with a few mods.

My basic test for trying it out is to either play it solo or to play it via MIDI from my Nord Stage 3 along with a "mostly" basic piano patch. And I can't make a patch that sounds good to me. Admittedly, I am absolute rubbish at programming synths and have the musical capabilities of a mediocre 12 year old piano student (despite many years of playing and being on the older end of the human age spectrum). Still ... I do have an idea of the sound I like and probably not a bad ear for what might sound okay simply due to many years of fiddling with this stuff. I just can't get there with my skill set.

There is one kind of funny/interesting anecdote from my attempts to create a usable patch. I had spent maybe 2 or 3 hours one evening tweaking a patch and even having my wife who is pretty musical help me dial it in. I finally gave up and went to bed. The next morning I went down to my office (the covid inspired basement that, serendipitously, has my work desk within 2 feet of a few nice synthesizers including the Peak) and turned everything on. Well, who can blame me if the synthesizers got turned on while powering up the laptop. I mean, really. It's just more keyboards. We are programmers. We need keyboards. Before looking at Slack/email/emergencies, I started playing the Peak using the patch I had worked on the previous evening. And it was wonderful! I was thinking it was quite perfect. Maybe my ears from the evening before were just worn out? I verified that was the synth I was playing ... and was quite happy. Woot! Oops - not so much. Long story short: I figured out that another keyboard I turned on adjusted the volume of the Peak to 0 and the Prophet 6 to "lots". I was simply playing the Prophet 6, and it was beautiful. Dang. The Peak wasn't even making a peep.

So. I dunno. I think that a true musician would turn the Peak into a masterpiece. I am, however, unable thus far to make it musical. I will definitely keep trying because it is, in spite of my meager skills, quite amazing. But to sum it up in a trite and silly way: The Prophet 6, to my ears, has a musical soul. It effortlessly sounds beautiful. The Peak sounds sterile to me.

I’d recommend using the “diverge” function in the oscillator section to get nice per-voice offsets, otherwise the almost-perfect tuning can sound a bit sterile.

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2021, 08:04:08 AM »

I’d recommend using the “diverge” function in the oscillator section to get nice per-voice offsets, otherwise the almost-perfect tuning can sound a bit sterile.

I do indeed use that diverge option. It definitely adds some “life” to the sound. I also have the drift value in that same oscillator section turned up a bit. My suspicion is that it is still largely a learning issue for me. Just this morning, I fiddled around more with the 4th version of the patch that I am currently striving for. And I increased the envelope depth a bit to make the filter open a bit more with more key velocity. And, suddenly, it is sounding a lot closer to what I am trying to obtain.

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2021, 08:11:26 AM »

I would suggest that you follow, rather try to lead.  Don't try to force the Peak on yourself.  You'll only be wasting the time and effort that could be more productively spent with the right instrument.  Go with the P-6.  And don't worry about not liking the Peak.

I'm curious, though.  Have you tried the Rev2?  It might not be to your liking if you especially like the rawness and immediacy of the P-6.  But the Rev2 does stand between the P-6 and the Peak in a sense.  If you can grasp the programming, it offers far more musical power than either.

I do agree with you on this. It is so very subjective, and that is also part of what makes it all so wonderful. The world would be a much sadder place if we all had the exact same “ears”. I think that for me, the learning process for a given instrument is a much longer process than for most people. For example, it took me well over a year (perhaps it was a couple years) before the Prophet 6 truly called my name. I’m just a bit slow :)

I have not tried out a Rev2 but probably should. I, unfortunately (or maybe “fortunately” from my bank account’s perspective), don’t have any practical way to try out any instruments without just ordering them.

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2021, 09:42:30 AM »
I've mentioned this before on this form, but I do feel the crisp precision on the Summit and Peak oscillators can be a fooler.  Understand that there's just more going on in the high and low range of the audio spectrum- so a careful approach to filtering might be needed to warm things to familiarity.   Try using that split filter, it's really nice, especially in LP-LP setting , w. just a tad of offset.    Once dialed in, it's now taken the role as pad monster and retro electric pianos in my setup.   
Sequential/DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop,   Pro-2, Pro-3, OB6, P-12,
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

jg666

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Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2021, 12:09:11 AM »
I just wish the summit had graphical representations of the envelopes like my Pro2 has. I've got so used to having those that I miss it on other synths that don't have this feature. If it did have this feature I would be very tempted to buy a Summit.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2021, 06:30:40 AM »
Try using that split filter, it's really nice, especially in LP-LP setting , w. just a tad of offset.    Once dialed in, it's now taken the role as pad monster and retro electric pianos in my setup.

Can you clarify what you mean here by “split filter”? I re-read the filter portion of the Peak manual and am not understanding. Or is this maybe something that the Summit has but the Peak does not?

Thanks!

Re: Desktop/Module synth recommendation
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2021, 08:16:21 AM »
Try using that split filter, it's really nice, especially in LP-LP setting , w. just a tad of offset.    Once dialed in, it's now taken the role as pad monster and retro electric pianos in my setup.

Can you clarify what you mean here by “split filter”? I re-read the filter portion of the Peak manual and am not understanding. Or is this maybe something that the Summit has but the Peak does not?

Thanks!

What is probably meant is the “dual” filter option. It’s one of the options alongside 12dB and 24dB in the hardware buttons. Once you’ve selected “dual”, you can then press the “filter” menu and select various series or parallel configurations and specify a cutoff offset between them.

It’s a Summit-only feature.