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MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?

MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« on: February 27, 2021, 07:40:43 AM »
Hi!

I have a ROLI Seaboard, OB-6 and Ableton live 11.

Connecting the ROLI to the OB-6 without going through Ableton works fine if I set the ROLI to use 7 channels only, I too have the issue of others with Ableton not having that setting for MPE.

But what I am REALLY missing, is the pressure response, to me the main selling point of MPE!

It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the manual addendum of update 1.6.6 either.

While the OB-6 responds to the Velocity of my playing on the ROLI, it does not respond to modulating pressure, or pressing lightly, and then increasing the pressure on the ROLI, which is very expressive on pad / strings sounds.

Please add that in a firmware update to your MPE support, without it makes little sense to have MPE in the first place, at least not to myself!

Thanks for an otherwise wonderful instrument :)


Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2022, 02:35:10 AM »
A year later I thought I'd check back on this, since it is not mentioned in the 1.7.4 update notes.

Am I alone in missing this feature in the MPE implementation? :)

the8bitdeity

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Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2022, 11:48:13 AM »
I'm not 100% certain but I thought there was an MPE issue in stock Ableton 11 compared to the currently active 11.1 beta for MPE specifically with regards to the way Ableton cycled notes + channels (released version will cycle across all 16 channels, beta allows you to limit the channels to 1-6 which is needed for OB-6).

I'm not sure it's the issue you're seeing, but I remember that coming up in discussion.
P12R, uWXT, Kijimi, Xerxes, OB6D, P6D, Hydrasynth, System 8, Pro 3, Wavestate, Peak, MS20D, A4mk2, ARmk2, MC202, Avalon, Model:Cycles, Octatrack, NLDR, H9000, Digitone, Deckard's Dream mk2, Roland System 500 + other Eurorack

Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2022, 12:04:00 PM »
Hi,

That was the first issue, yes - others had reported that too though - what I don't recognize in other discussions is the second issue, on the Z axis pressure modulation.

On the ROLI with it's Equator VST, it's the MPE dimension I use the most:

By just lightly touching the fingers on the surface you get very low notes at first, and then with pressure, you can slowly build the volume up, modulating as you go, live a slowly rising string section. And then by slowly lowering the pressure you can modulate the release volume.

Is there a way of doing that with the OB-6?
If there is, I haven't found one...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 12:26:20 PM by onar3d »

the8bitdeity

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  • Ham handed synth enthusiast
Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2022, 06:28:11 PM »
Are you enabling MPE mode on the OB-6 in the third global menu? See the .txt file at the bottom of the release notes post.
P12R, uWXT, Kijimi, Xerxes, OB6D, P6D, Hydrasynth, System 8, Pro 3, Wavestate, Peak, MS20D, A4mk2, ARmk2, MC202, Avalon, Model:Cycles, Octatrack, NLDR, H9000, Digitone, Deckard's Dream mk2, Roland System 500 + other Eurorack

Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2022, 03:25:19 AM »
Hi, yes, I did that - and that document doesn't mention the Z axis, only the Y one, hence my asking here :)

Best,
Ilias B.

kpatz

Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2022, 01:26:52 PM »
Is Z-axis treated like aftertouch?  What happens if you enable aftertouch in your patch, say to filter cutoff, does the Z-axis affect this?

Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2022, 10:42:47 AM »
Is Z-axis treated like aftertouch?  What happens if you enable aftertouch in your patch, say to filter cutoff, does the Z-axis affect this?

Good tip, I updated to 1.7.4 and tried mapping aftertouch to loudness, it definitely works with the ROLI! Only that there's an interaction with the loudness envelope. I sort of get what I'm looking for if aftertouch is on max, and loudness envelope is set with non-zero attack (or there's an audible click), full decay & sustain, 0 release, velocity switched on and amount at full.

The only think this doesn't do is also allow for fast attack if I play the ROLI rapidly, but that's no big issue!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 10:44:31 AM by onar3d »

kpatz

Re: MPE Z-Axis/Pressure seems to not be used?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2022, 04:26:09 PM »

Good tip, I updated to 1.7.4 and tried mapping aftertouch to loudness, it definitely works with the ROLI! Only that there's an interaction with the loudness envelope. I sort of get what I'm looking for if aftertouch is on max, and loudness envelope is set with non-zero attack (or there's an audible click), full decay & sustain, 0 release, velocity switched on and amount at full.

The only think this doesn't do is also allow for fast attack if I play the ROLI rapidly, but that's no big issue!
It appears, from trying it on mine, that Aftertouch->Amp actually routes aftertouch to Amp Envelope Amt, so you'd need some sustain on the envelope to be able to modulate volume with aftertouch or MPE Z-Axis.

To get a fast "attack" using aftertouch or Z-axis, you'd need a controller that lets you reach a high Z-axis quickly.

It does appear, that even with the loudness envelope amount maxed out, aftertouch can bring it higher as long as sustain isn't at max.