Minimoog Model D

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #160 on: July 23, 2016, 12:19:21 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, the Model D is the most interesting thing Moog has produced for a good while.  I had a Voyager Old School and was terribly disappointed with its sound, especially the sawtooth.  The overall tuning continued to drift even after an hour warm-up.  In only about a year, the octave switches needed to be tuned.  And the modulation was just a pain, so that I had to buy a CP-251. 

The Sub 37 has an excellent architecture and sound, but the keyboard is rather cheap and too short, and two oscillators are the bare minimum.

The Mother-32 has a nice classic sound and is fine for certain purposes, but its architecture is extremely limited.  It could make a decent addition to another instrument.

That's my view of Moog's products.  I'd like to get excited over them, but no.  The Minimoog re-issue, in spite of its many limitations, strikes me as being by far the most musically satisfying product in the Moog line up.  Having once owned a Model D, I know firsthand that you do feel as if you've got an immensely powerful instrument in your hands.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 12:46:50 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #161 on: July 23, 2016, 06:45:28 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, the Model D is the most interesting thing Moog has produced for a good while.  I had a Voyager Old School and was terribly disappointed with its sound, especially the sawtooth.  The overall tuning continued to drift even after an hour warm-up.  In only about a year, the octave switches needed to be tuned.  And the modulation was just a pain, so that I had to buy a CP-251. 

The Sub 37 has an excellent architecture and sound, but the keyboard is rather cheap and too short, and two oscillators are the bare minimum.

The Mother-32 has a nice classic sound and is fine for certain purposes, but its architecture is extremely limited.  It could make a decent addition to another instrument.

That's my view of Moog's products.  I'd like to get excited over them, but no.  The Minimoog re-issue, in spite of its many limitations, strikes me as being by far the most musically satisfying product in the Moog line up.  Having once owned a Model D, I know firsthand that you do feel as if you've got an immensely powerful instrument in your hands.

So when are you going to get one and how many?  ;D

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #162 on: July 24, 2016, 08:56:09 AM »
If it weren't for the recent demise of my car - the one assaulted by a deer that didn't look both ways before crossing - then I might be able to give an affirmative answer!  >:(

But seriously, I don't think I could sink $3,500 into one monophonic instrument.  If the Minimoog was $2,000, then I might save up for it, but the current price puts it out of my league.  I'm best off sticking with full-featured full-sized polyphonics. 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 09:03:01 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #163 on: August 16, 2016, 08:34:52 PM »
I think this instrument has so much character.  Even in a YouTube video, you can hear it.  It has what I found was lacking in the Voyager Old School.  The Model D sounds so good to my ears, it makes me hungry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W698RWbEtcg
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 08:42:19 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Shaw

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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #164 on: August 16, 2016, 10:27:14 PM »
I think this instrument has so much character.  Even in a YouTube video, you can hear it.  It has what I found was lacking in the Voyager Old School.  The Model D sounds so good to my ears, it makes me hungry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W698RWbEtcg
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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #165 on: August 30, 2016, 10:39:36 PM »
So yesterday I had the chance to finally check out the Model D. The short version is that I stand corrected.

The sound per se wasn’t a huge enlightenment to me, as it's too well-known to offer any surprise - at least in my case. But since a Sub 37 was placed right next to it, I took the time to compare the pure oscillator tone of both. The Minimoog’s oscillators have far more bottom end, overtones, and overall weight and I also recognized that the filter seems to open up more than it does on the Sub 37. At times one can get the Sub 37 to sound closer to the Minimoog if one turns the filter drive up, which of course doesn’t work equally well in all registers and adds more than just harmonics. I found that interesting nevertheless.

So what can I say? By comparison, the Sub 37 sounded pretty lifeless and as if someone put a thick blanket over it. This doesn't make me hate my Sub 37, but there is a very obvious difference in tone. Yet, the absence of sync and PWM remain a bummer.

And although it was pretty clear quite quickly that the Model D's tone has indeed that impressive authority to it, I wasn’t as blown away by the overall sound as I was when I checked out the TVS Pro for the first time. So in that sense, I could at least come to the personal conclusion that I would always put Oberheim ahead of Moog in the analog mono synth charts.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #166 on: August 31, 2016, 07:37:28 AM »
A humble admission, Paul.  One either loves or hates the Model D, for all that it can or cannot do.  But there's little doubt where your preference lies.  Keep your Pro 2 and Prophet 6, but sell your Sub 37 and put the money towards either a Two-Voice Pro or the forthcoming Oberheim module.  It seems so clear that it's the Oberheim sound that grabs you.

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #167 on: August 31, 2016, 08:08:08 AM »
put the money towards either a Two-Voice Pro or the forthcoming Oberheim module.  It seems so clear that it's the Oberheim sound that grabs you.

Which module are you referring to? DSI OB-6? (now cross-listed on the Tom Oberheim site as well, BTW)

Or something else (e.g., the Eurorack SEM Plus, or....)?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 08:17:15 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard with Yorick Tech LFE, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Six-Trak, Prophet 2000

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #168 on: August 31, 2016, 08:51:02 AM »
put the money towards either a Two-Voice Pro or the forthcoming Oberheim module.  It seems so clear that it's the Oberheim sound that grabs you.

Which module are you referring to? DSI OB-6? (now cross-listed on the Tom Oberheim site as well, BTW)

Or something else (e.g., the Eurorack SEM Plus, or....)?

The latter.  I'm sure you've seen Tom's glimpses of it at NAMM.  I think it's very impressive, too, and I especially like that he's added four-stage envelopes.  It seems like a good choice if one doesn't want to pay the full price of the Two-Voice Pro.  Just combine two Eurorack SEMs, and you've got one superb stereo mono synth.

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #169 on: August 31, 2016, 09:18:11 AM »
A humble admission, Paul.  One either loves or hates the Model D, for all that it can or cannot do.  But there's little doubt where your preference lies.  Keep your Pro 2 and Prophet 6, but sell your Sub 37 and put the money towards either a Two-Voice Pro or the forthcoming Oberheim module.  It seems so clear that it's the Oberheim sound that grabs you.

I should make clear, though, that I didn't hate the Model D sound - neither on its own nor by comparison to the TVS Pro. It's just like "yeah, it sounds like a Minimoog" for me, and that's that. Don't get me wrong, the oscillators sound absolutely nice and musical, and despite the absence of hard sync and PWM, it's a really nice instrument.

What shapes my personal impression, though, is that the sound of the Model D appears to be more worn than almost anything else I can think of in the monosynth realm. If it was 1970 that would be different of course. So, it's mostly the kind of over-representation of the Model D that makes it sound more redundant to me than let's say a less prominently featured instrument like the TVS. It's like with songs that have been over-played.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #170 on: August 31, 2016, 09:59:50 AM »
Yeah, I understand.  It's not that you hate the Minimoog, it's just that you're definitely tired of it.  Too much of a good thing, perhaps. 

Of course, the Oberheim sound has been around nearly as long, and for those of us who listened way back to groups that prominently used Oberheims (Styx, etc.), there's a bit of the same sonic redundancy, only on the other side.  Personally, I'd be happy with either instrument, since the sort of music I make is disassociated from such groups, and the lines I play will never resemble their lines.  I do think that's an issue.  My point is, if one pursues a different type of music than these instruments were most often used for, I think one can still breath new life into them.  And this applies even to Carlos' work, since it used Moog modulars in a still fairly progressive manner, at least regarding the choices of sounds.  That's what I disliked about the "Switched-On Bach" stuff - the sounds.  I must have listened to those recordings a hundred times, even though I didn't like the sounds used! 

If one is going to play progressive rock on a Minimoog or an Oberheim, then I'd say he or she will fall into a rut and have a difficult time sounding original.  But I suppose these instruments will be very popular among the cover bands who actually are striving to sound other than original.

So, where do you stand regarding Oberheim synthesizers, Paul?  Have you decided on an instrument or a module yet?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 10:11:35 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #171 on: August 31, 2016, 10:13:50 AM »
Yeah, I understand.  It's not that you hate the Minimoog, it's just that you're definitely tired of it.  Too much of a good thing, perhaps.

Rather that, yes. But also not really tired because the sound is great, no question. Just less of a wow-factor for me personally.

Of course, the Oberheim sound has been around nearly as long, and for those of us who listened way back to groups that prominently used Oberheims (Styx, etc.), there's a bit of the same, only on the other side.  Personally, I'd be happy with either instrument, since the sort of music I make is disassociated from such groups, and the lines I play will never resemble their lines.  I do think that's an issue.  My point is, if one pursues a different type of music than these instruments were most often used for, I think one can still breath new life into them.  And this applies even to Carlos' work, since it used Moog modulars in a still fairly progressive manner, at least regarding the choices of sounds.  That's what I disliked about the "Switched-On Bach" stuff - the sounds.  I must have listened to those recordings a hundred times, even though I didn't like the sounds used!

Yeah, that describes my problem pretty well: Basically, that it would be much more of a challange for me to get different things out of the Minimoog than those I'm so used to.

So, where do you stand regarding Oberheim synthesizers?  Have you decided on an instrument or module yet?

As of now, synths are not my main concern. I'm about to fly back to Germany tomorrow while all of my stuff is being shipped across the Atlantic. Then I'm going to defend my dissertation in Berlin this fall, then comes more job seeking, and after having been successful, it might be practical to think about next synths again.  ;)

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #172 on: August 31, 2016, 10:19:33 AM »
You mean there's more to life than Moogs and Oberheims?  I couldn't agree more.  I hope things work out well for you.

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #173 on: August 31, 2016, 10:22:05 AM »
You mean there's more to life than Moogs and Oberheims?  I couldn't agree more.  I hope things work out well for you.

Haha, yes! And thanks for your wishes!

To answer your original question more precisely though, I'd rather go with a TVS Pro, as I quite like it as a whole package. Nevertheless, at about 4,000 Euros it's quite expensive in Europe.

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #174 on: August 31, 2016, 11:18:51 AM »
What is the dissertation about Paul?

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #175 on: August 31, 2016, 12:01:56 PM »
What is the dissertation about Paul?

You really wanna know?  ;D

The English title is going to be "Land Surveys: Rolf Dieter Brinkmann's and Einar Schleef's Mise en Place on the Stage of the 20th Century." Rolf Dieter Brinkmann and Einar Schleef are two German authors - one from the West, the other one from the East. Brinkmann was amongst the first, who translated American beat literature into German, he made text collages, wrote poems, novels, and also did audio-visual collages. Schleef was a painter, stage designer, director, writer, and photographer. What both have in common is a unique approach in dealing with questions related to places - questions that literally haunt their works.

How is that specifically related to land surveying? - Well, in the German tradition (I'm talking about early narratives, i.e. the aural history of sages), the land surveyor is a character that always appears as a ghost. It used to be a person that measured wrongly in his lifetime - either on purpose or by accident - and subsequently ends up being cursed to reappear as a ghost that will have to return to the landmark he put into the wrong place as long as a living being puts it into the right place. So this fellow - the haunting and haunted land surveyor - is kind of the mascot of my dissertation.

On a wider scale, my dissertation is a modular writing project about why measuring (in the widest conceptual sense, but also in the sense of land surveying) makes uncanny (in the Freudian sense of not-at-homeness) and how the question of dwelling is related to hauntology (yes, again spooky things). The inquiry arises from the question of how the works of the above-mentioned artists can be read as mutations of the perception of those spatial shifts that occured over the course of the 20th century, which in turn have been affected by the first total mobilization (the introduction of the Man Machine in WW I) and the birth of Fordism (both coincidently happens in 1914), up until the total dissolution of boundaries that arose due to late capitalism and never ending wars (the main assumption here is that space is always already produced and that the war of 1914 basically never ended until today with regard to the phenotypes it introduced). So the theoretical background is quite wide and covers History, Sociology, Philosophy, and Economy to name a few POVs. Hence it's going to be a big book.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 12:07:22 PM by Paul Dither »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #176 on: August 31, 2016, 12:11:01 PM »
And that's the short version!

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #177 on: August 31, 2016, 12:13:53 PM »
And that's the short version!

Well, I can also share the abstract that I submitted for grants in the past. The whole thing will be mainly in German though, which made most sense, as the works of the two artists haven't been translated to a larger degree. But I'll be happy to share the roughly 500 pages with you in case you wanna pimp your knowledge of German.  ;)

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #178 on: August 31, 2016, 12:39:03 PM »
In German?  Umm, I don't think so.  I only know a handful of German words - all religious.  But you could always send it to me in Ecclesiastical Latin.  Then I could give you my version of it, chanted to a Psalm Tone.  Who knows - we might have a hit!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 12:44:12 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #179 on: August 31, 2016, 02:10:15 PM »
In German?  Umm, I don't think so.  I only know a handful of German words - all religious.  But you could always send it to me in Ecclesiastical Latin.  Then I could give you my version of it, chanted to a Psalm Tone.  Who knows - we might have a hit!

Word!  ;)