Minimoog Model D

chysn

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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2016, 05:19:41 AM »
I am extremely interested in how the Crowminius compares to a vintage MiniMoog D vs. a new MiniMoog D. I don't care if they sound exactly the same. I'm curious which sounds thicker, deeper, and better.

In Moog's introduction video, Nick Montoya said that they studied a bunch of different Model Ds to develop the reissue's sound. I thought that was really interesting, that there's such wide variation in the "Minimoog sound" that they had to basically average them out. There will be a lot more consistency in new Minimoogs, due to modern manufacturing methods (even if Moog builds the instruments with 1970 techniques, the components will still be fabricated in modern factories).

The point being that a one-to-one comparison of an original against the reissue will be interesting but not terribly informative.
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Jason

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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #121 on: May 27, 2016, 06:32:06 AM »
In Moog's introduction video, Nick Montoya said that they studied a bunch of different Model Ds to develop the reissue's sound. I thought that was really interesting, that there's such wide variation in the "Minimoog sound" that they had to basically average them out. There will be a lot more consistency in new Minimoogs, due to modern manufacturing methods (even if Moog builds the instruments with 1970 techniques, the components will still be fabricated in modern factories).

The point being that a one-to-one comparison of an original against the reissue will be interesting but not terribly informative.

Well again, for me personally, I don't care if a given synthesizer is an exact match with anything else. What matters most to me is which sounds the best... and again, by that I mean, which has the thickest, deepest, and widest sound when comparing a similar patch. Although it has been said by many that all MiniMoogs sound different, it is my understanding that there were basically three versions of the Model D. Some consider the earliest to be the best sounding but the least stable for tuning. The AJH modular attempt at recreating the MiniMoog sound in the MiniMod was an attempt to capture that earlier sound, so comparing it to the new MiniMoog D would be interesting.

These comparisons remind me of the comparisons people make with Hammonds. Many people say that each sounds different, because there are so many components working together, especially when the Leslie is added. So the attempts to recreate the sound fail, in part, because we are always trying to recreate our particular Hammond, and everyone's Hammond sounds different. But again, when comparing a similar setting and amount of drive, I think 9 out of 10 will say that certain clones sound "objectively" better than others. Subjective descriptions like warmth, fullness, and thickness all equal something that is cumulatively more "objective."

Regarding the Moog 15, I haven't seen the comparisons, but I would bet that it is objectively better sounding than the new MiniMoog D. It's like comparing Keith Emerson's Modular Moog with one of his MiniMoogs. One was clearly better sounding. (Emerson mostly used his MiniMoogs for bass sounds, not leads.) There was an old Keyboard Magazine article about his Modular in which his old tech Will Alexander called it "The World's Most Dangerous Synth" and talked about how it sounded like a blanket was being taken off of a MiniMoog. They each use basically the same things: 3 oscillators, etc... But he said the Modular sounds thicker, wider, deeper (fill in the term used to try to explain a sound...) Having heard it live a few times, I have to agree.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 06:36:29 AM by Jason »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2016, 11:29:14 AM »
Following this discussion, the word "fickle" comes to mind.  When those of us who belong to the purist analog-favoring traditional musician camp speak about our preferences in synthesizers, I think we're sometimes presumed to be fixated on a small number of instruments.  As if we feel, "I've got to have a Minimoog Model D or I'll just go mad.  I want those white wheels and the red and blue rocker switches.  I must have the heavy wood frame and that little overload bulb.  Oh yes, bring it all back!"   Or, fill in some other vintage icon.  We're not nearly so fickle or fixated.  What we're after is quality character of tone, irrelevant of the instrument that offers it.   Jason has rightly used the familiar words to describe this character: "thick," "deep", "warm," etc.  Bulls-eye!  That's all I'm after, and that's all that many of us are after.  The quest is more musical than material; it's not to bring back the old days with the old instruments; it's not to re-live our younger days by having in our basements our old belongings.  It's a quest for a musical virtue that is often undermined by modern standards.  And there are many objective aspects to it that all but a few people can recognize.

So, as much as the title of this thread is "Minimoog Model D," regardless, there's something broader to the issue than merely one synthesizer.  In a sense, the Minimoog is only a symbol.  The broader issue is the type of synthesis that the Minimoog represents. 

Personally, I don't care if I never play a Model D or a Moog anything for the rest of my life.  I don't care if I never play an ARP Odyssey or a 2600.  What I do care about is the musical character of a synthesizer, its sonic personality.  I want much more than an impressive spec sheet.  I want a musical instrument capable of charm and sweetness.  The catch is, however, that many of us feel the older designs achieved this better than the newer ones, and that's where the misunderstandings begin.  But it's ultimately not about the age or era of an instrument, but about its character.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 11:43:43 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #123 on: May 27, 2016, 11:32:24 AM »
Like S.S., I've definitely been wondering if Moog will release a module version of the MiniMoog.

I think it's safe to say that this is going to be highly unlikely. I don't see this happening for the Sub 37 either. I think that the Eurorack option will largely replace the module version of any synth in the long run, at least when it comes to monophonic synths. Thinking in those market segments is also part of the single instrument's concept. For example, I know from Moog directly that the Sub 37 has been conceptualized to be a player's synth in the first place, not a synth for tech or modular nerds, which is at least how they "philosophically" justify the lack of CV outs.

As for a Minimoog module: That could not only be regarded as being an unfaithful recreation, but also somehow absurd, since everything that used to characterize a Minimoog is that it's a self-contained unit in the first place. And that sort of self-containment includes the keyboard. It's part of what made it the iconic instrument that opened up the world of synthesis to people that are players in the first place.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 11:47:51 AM by Paul Dither »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #124 on: May 27, 2016, 11:34:11 AM »
Although it has been said by many that all MiniMoogs sound different, it is my understanding that there were basically three versions of the Model D. Some consider the earliest to be the best sounding but the least stable for tuning. The AJH modular attempt at recreating the MiniMoog sound in the MiniMod was an attempt to capture that earlier sound, so comparing it to the new MiniMoog D would be interesting.

With regard to the circuit design, they went with rev. 2 for the reissue.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2016, 11:45:43 AM »
Like S.S., I've definitely been wondering if Moog will release a module version of the MiniMoog.

I don't think this is at all likely.  Moog isn't DSI.  I made reference to using the Minimoog to MIDI control the pitch of a module, such as an Oberheim SEM Pro.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 11:50:20 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2016, 11:46:59 AM »
The catch is, however, that many of us feel the older designs achieved this better than the newer ones, and that's were the misunderstandings begin.  But it's ultimately not about the age or era of the instrument, but about the character.

I agree that it gets problematic as soon as nostalgia comes into play. Yet, there are many young folks that haven't even been around the first time those iconic instruments were out (so they can't really be nostalgic in a strict sense, as they've never really experienced this past at first hand), who would still differ between the instruments in question and most current (or more feature heavy) synths in terms of sonic weight. It's the sort of "lifting the curtain" effect Jason was referring to with regard to the Minimoog vs the huge modular system. It's something intangible at some level: You just hit a key and know, "wow this sounds really deep and musical."

« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 11:52:07 AM by Paul Dither »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #127 on: May 27, 2016, 12:00:11 PM »
There's another aspect though, which involves the player or tinkerer (in case of designing a sound). And this relates pretty well to traditional instruments as well, like the guitar, the piano, the violin, etc. One part of the sound quality is inherent to the build quality and the components being used, the overall design of an instrument. The other important part is in the fingers for example. I mean you can buy a Relic Fender Custom Shop David Gilmour Signature Series Stratocaster for  $5760.00, but it won't make you sound like David Gilmour unless your fingers shape the tone in the same way. The same is applicable to a synthesizer although its sonic character seems to be more fixated by everything that goes on inside of the unit at first sight. There's still the challenge of how to make an inherent musicality shine.

And I guess that a certain aspect of audiophile-ness plays a role too.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 12:02:45 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #128 on: May 27, 2016, 12:12:55 PM »
More in-depth infos about the assembly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi4aEePdkM

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #129 on: May 28, 2016, 01:27:17 AM »
The interesting bit (the main 4 pcb boards) seems to be missing, they are the bits I would like to have seen in detail.

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #130 on: May 28, 2016, 10:56:17 AM »
The interesting bit (the main 4 pcb boards) seems to be missing, they are the bits I would like to have seen in detail.

Then this one is for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC-sAAtxuDQ

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2016, 12:50:52 AM »
It certainly is!

Thanks for the link.

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2016, 08:41:35 PM »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #133 on: July 17, 2016, 08:16:06 AM »
Thanks for finding that, Paul.  By the way, I thought the audio quality of the Tascam DR-40 was excellent - nice and clean and crisp.

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #134 on: July 19, 2016, 04:23:29 PM »

chysn

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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #135 on: July 19, 2016, 04:52:12 PM »
And also, the Model D is now in full production:

https://www.moogmusic.com/news/minimoog-model-d-returns-production
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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #136 on: July 19, 2016, 04:55:38 PM »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #137 on: July 19, 2016, 05:03:59 PM »
Why do I feel like a little boy in a candy store every time I come across a new Minimoog video?

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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #138 on: July 19, 2016, 05:06:54 PM »
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Re: Minimoog Model D
« Reply #139 on: July 19, 2016, 05:07:30 PM »
Why do I feel like a little boy in a candy store every time I come across a new Minimoog video?

Not sure. The Minimoog history video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh4Ok0ex2vU) comes across pretty lousy and awkward though.