Changing the program of split/stack a/b sounds

[Cobraman]

How do you change the sound (patch) of either Split/Stack A or B in a program? For example, if U-1-100 is a stack with (A) Piano and (B) strings, but I want to change the sound (patch) of (B) to brass, how would I change the (B) to brass?

[timboréale]

I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any means to load layer B separately from layer A, e.g. to load the layer A of one patch and the layer B of another. The two layers are not independent in the patch memory.

[Cobraman]

I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any means to load layer B separately from layer A, e.g. to load the layer A of one patch and the layer B of another. The two layers are not independent in the patch memory.

That is a disappointment, if you are correct. I guess I did not do my homework this time before buying. I'm not entirely upset because this thing sounds great as it is. Until today, I never realized that the original Prophet 5 did not have splits and stacks, so I guess I should be happy with what this does do. Thanks for your reply. 

[jok3r]

You should look into the last parameter of the misc menue... perhaps it suits your needs...

[timboréale]

TIL. Nice find! That's not even in the manual (and I just checked the current one from the Rev2 product page, not there either).

[skipgilles]

I find it puzzling that the multi-timbrality (double layers/stacks), which is such a great selling point of the Rev2, is so poorly integrated in its user interface. Selecting layers (and setting their relative volume!) should of course have been on the front panel! Not hidden in the first (volume) and last (layer patch) parameter of the misc menu...

[timboréale]

The selecting layers thing was added rather late in the firmware, making me think it was not an original use case. The volume is the first misc param, that strikes me as fairly direct. It's not something you change super often, and if you need to modify it while playing you can just map a control to the VCA, so I don't see that as an omission, personally.

[skipgilles]

Indeed, clearly, it wasn't an original use case, which I find utterly puzzling. Further, concerning layer volume: I need to access this all the time when playing live. I tend to play base in the left layer and leads in the upper layer. Sadly, modulating VCA is really something different than what modulating layer volume would be.

[timboréale]

If your use case requires that (mine definitely doesn't, so this is clearly a case-by-case thing), why not use the B outs and stick a volume pedal on them? Might solve your particular situation fairly elegantly!

[timboréale]

Indeed, clearly, it wasn't an original use case, which I find utterly puzzling. Further, concerning layer volume: I need to access this all the time when playing live. I tend to play base in the left layer and leads in the upper layer. Sadly, modulating VCA is really something different than what modulating layer volume would be.

Well yes, I didn't exactly mean the VCA destination - usually one modulates the VCA envelope amount to control a layer volume.

[skipgilles]

Oh, yes, VCA envelope makes more sense, haha. However, this will only apply to the osc-amp-envelope, not to, e.g., noise, sub, and all other modulations to the sound.

[timboréale]

The noise and sub go through the Amp just the same as the rest of it - the osc mixer is before the filter, which is before the VCA (which is controlled by the VCA envelope). All additional modulations will be affected as well.

Try it - it's nearly identical to using program volume, there are maybe some subtle differences dealing with velocity mapping and such, but it's quite effective, highly dynamic, and for stage purposes (e.g. balancing layers, fading one in and out, adjusting split ratio, etc) totally workable.

Since they can't add a knob for it as a firmware update, this works pretty darn good as a replacement option.

[jok3r]

The noise and sub go through the Amp just the same as the rest of it - the osc mixer is before the filter, which is before the VCA (which is controlled by the VCA envelope). All additional modulations will be affected as well.

Try it - it's nearly identical to using program volume, there are maybe some subtle differences dealing with velocity mapping and such, but it's quite effective, highly dynamic, and for stage purposes (e.g. balancing layers, fading one in and out, adjusting split ratio, etc) totally workable.

Since they can't add a knob for it as a firmware update, this works pretty darn good as a replacement option.

I can second that. I'm using this method all the time and it works pretty good on stage. I suppose you spend some time learning the possibilities and all the glory of this synth.

[skipgilles]

A bit of an unnecessarily unfriendly comment, my constructive critique on the UI design choice stands. (call me a spoiled Nord-kid But thanks, I see I overlooked that many parameters are directly coupled to VCA env. I will try to work around this way, spending the mod-wheel on it.

[jok3r]

A bit of an unnecessarily unfriendly comment, my constructive critique on the UI design choice stands. (call me a spoiled Nord-kid But thanks, I see I overlooked that many parameters are directly coupled to VCA env. I will try to work around this way, spending the mod-wheel on it.

Sorry, my post was not meant to sound unfriendly... unfortunately the written words did not transport the tone my words would have had, if I said it to you directly 

I will give you another possible solution to be constructive again, too: In the manual I see, that Program Volume is controllable per midi. So if this feature is very importand for you, and you want to have the problem solved in hardware, you could add a midi controller of your choice and program it to control program volumes. Good midi controllers can control several parameters with only one physical knob/fader/etc. so you could even build a balance fader or knob. But even if you have only "one parameter per controller" you can at least modify both layers levels separately. In the end it would free up your mod wheel for other purposes.

The good thing about most todays synth (not only Sequential) is that basically everything can be controlled per MIDI, so you can add physical controllers for everything to your liking... if you are willing to carry around another piece of gear for this purpose.

[skipgilles]

Hee, that's an excellent idea, thanks!  (and no worries )