The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

OB-Xa

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2021, 11:00:43 AM »
personally, I prefer the OBX over the OBXA. The original OBX had a character which the XA lacked, Because the X used Oberheim filters while the XA used Curtis filters. there's just something awesome about the 12 DB Oberheim low pass filters. most people seem to lust after 24 DB filters, but I really like the way a 12 DB filter sounds if it has a decent amount of resonance, Which the Curtis filters lack in 2 pole mode. I find it hard sometimes to re-create some of those sounds on my Rev 2 because the 24 DB filter just can't sound like that. if I'm not mistaken, the Rev 2 and XA filters are either the same or similar.

ddp

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2021, 07:56:21 PM »
I despise Behringer, this is yet more despicable behavior.
Buchla, Polyend, Minimoog reissue, Moog One, Prophet 10 & X, Tempest, formerly Prophet 6 and Rev2.

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2021, 01:15:24 PM »
I am fairly ambivalent about B cloning synths, especially ones where the original maker has no interest in doing it. They are just giving people what they want. It does seem to me like B was a factor in getting a P5 rev4.

That said there's just no need to take a guys name for marketing.

LPF83

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2021, 01:52:11 PM »
I am fairly ambivalent about B cloning synths, especially ones where the original maker has no interest in doing it. They are just giving people what they want. It does seem to me like B was a factor in getting a P5 rev4.

That said there's just no need to take a guys name for marketing.

What I find the most offensive is the pursuit of profit maximization of mediocre musical instruments using a strategy that depends on capitalizing on brand and product identities that were originally created by legendary entrepreneurs.  All of this without even a nod of credit or respect toward those pioneers of the industry, much less asking permission or making a feeble attempt to reach out and collaborate on ideas... even going so far as to sue (unsuccessfully) in an attempt to censor opinions.

Acknowledging what made those great synths so great would mean that the clones would then be obligated to faithfully reproduce the characteristics of the original that had been identified.  And that's much harder (and more expensive) than churning out a cheap knock off that doesn't do the original justice.

There are so many plugin vendors that have created "inspired by" products without trademark hijinks and making lots of enemies along the way; I don't understand why a hardware company can't do same.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2021, 02:28:07 PM »
By stark contrast, look at the way Korg has reproduced the ARP synthesizers.  They've done so with high praise and respect for the originals, even to the point of inviting David Friend onto the Odyssey project.  That's to have both decency and class. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKFLNOzBhHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R4niN0o_58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAzmMbLgkkQ
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 02:46:23 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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LPF83

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2021, 04:43:06 PM »
By stark contrast, look at the way Korg has reproduced the ARP synthesizers.  They've done so with high praise and respect for the originals, even to the point of inviting David Friend onto the Odyssey project.  That's to have both decency and class. 

Exactly.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2021, 05:34:29 PM »
In fact, Korg's website even contains a link to the Alan R. Pearlman Foundation:

https://alanrpearlmanfoundation.org/
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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2021, 12:40:06 AM »
I agree Korg is doing a great job with ARP and I hope to see more instruments from that partnership. Preferably an Omni with patch memory.

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2021, 03:25:30 AM »
Yes, I'm hoping for an Omni II as well. 
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blewis

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2021, 04:52:30 AM »
UB-Xa was a good name, but changing one character certainly froths up the internet.

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2021, 05:26:09 AM »
And rightly so.  It makes one wonder if this is to get one up on Dave Smith before he can reissue the same instrument.  Dave beat B to the punch in reissuing the Prophet 5/10.

What would we all say here, and what would be the general Internet response, if Dave Smith reissued the Oberheim OB-1 using the same appearance, design, and name, and with no credit offered to Tom?  Most everyone would be outraged over the injustice, even if it were all legal.  But we've come to expect so much from the other guy.  It's the new low in the synthesizer industry.

I must admit that, a while ago, I grew somewhat indifferent to some of this, and was at least toying with the idea of buying a B ARP 2600.  It's long been the instrument I've most admired but could never afford.  But then I re-read the accounts of his highness' business practices, especially as they concerned DSI/Sequential, and that was that.  No B for me. 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 05:52:04 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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LPF83

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2021, 07:17:28 AM »
And rightly so.  It makes one wonder if this is to get one up on Dave Smith before he can reissue the same instrument.  Dave beat B to the punch in reissuing the Prophet 5/10.

What would we all say here, and what would be the general Internet response, if Dave Smith reissued the Oberheim OB-1 using the same appearance, design, and name, and with no credit offered to Tom?  Most everyone would be outraged over the injustice, even if it were all legal.  But we've come to expect so much from the other guy.  It's the new low in the synthesizer industry.

I must admit that, a while ago, I grew somewhat indifferent to some of this, and was at least toying with the idea of buying a B ARP 2600.  It's long been the instrument I've most admired but could never afford.  But then I re-read the accounts of his highness' business practices, especially as they concerned DSI/Sequential, and that was that.  No B for me.

Even if Dave did a reissue of a vintage synth with no involvement of that synth's pioneer, if the result was a faithful replica he would still be in a better place.
I am the first to admit, if B did a reissue of a Jupiter 8 for example, and the thing was truly a dead ringer in sound, quality, form factor, etc.  and it came in under $1k, I would probably buy one.  I might duct tape over the B logo in shame and embarrassment, but I would probably buy one.

Problem is, the clones that they are reproducing so far seem to be dull-sounding "inspired by" reimagining of the originals.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

chysn

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2021, 02:05:39 AM »
Behringer legally threatened at least one member of this forum—somebody I like and respect—for something said on another forum, in a discussion about synths. For me, there’s simply no redemption from this. There are plenty of instrument and equipment makers.
Pro 3 #1640
macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq
www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2021, 03:16:12 PM »
Behringer legally threatened at least one member of this forum—somebody I like and respect—for something said on another forum, in a discussion about synths. For me, there’s simply no redemption from this. There are plenty of instrument and equipment makers.

I was told that several of us were involved.
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chysn

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2021, 04:09:10 PM »
Behringer legally threatened at least one member of this forum—somebody I like and respect—for something said on another forum, in a discussion about synths. For me, there’s simply no redemption from this. There are plenty of instrument and equipment makers.

I was told that several of us were involved.

Yes, that’s my recollection.
Pro 3 #1640
macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq
www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2021, 05:00:21 PM »
This whole ugly episode hit close to home.  That's presumably why the feelings about it on this forum are still strong, although the comments are admirably restrained.  Some may laugh, but it's almost a matter of company loyalty that binds us over the issue.  I don't think the newcomers on the forum understand this.   A number of us go way back to the previous forum and have been "together" for over ten years.  We feel like we're a part of the DSI/Sequential family and didn't like one bit seeing the family attacked.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 05:10:01 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

LPF83

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2021, 05:25:59 PM »
This whole ugly episode hit close to home.  That's presumably why the feelings about it on this forum are still strong, although the comments are admirably restrained.  Some may laugh, but it's almost a matter of company loyalty that binds us over the issue.  I don't think the newcomers on the forum understand this.   A number of us go way back to the previous forum and have been "together" for over ten years.  We feel like we're a part of the DSI/Sequential family and didn't like one bit seeing the family attacked.

The reason this whole lawsuit ordeal resonates across the synth landscape is because it works out like a story book version of good vs. evil.

On one hand you have the real-deal pioneer of a historically monumental musical instrument (P5), a significant portfolio of similarly impressive follow up products, and a small group of passionate folks continuing to create and support them.

On the other hand you have exemplification of mass-produced corporate product, pandering to every marketing trick within grasp, and going so far as to (unsuccessfully) use large-corporation-biased politics and legal maneuvering to try to eliminate the threat of quality musical instruments, so that substandard ones can thrive.

News flash to the BizzleJer, someone's name will be forever memorialized in synthesizer history and someone else's name will fade into non-memory as soon as China figures out how to make garbage synths themselves and sell them for $160 instead of $600.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 05:27:31 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2021, 05:42:39 PM »
Well said.  Sadly, many look at the situation merely as an opportunity to get instruments for less, and nothing else matters.  They get neat stuff, the neat stuff is inexpensive, and that's that.  Why should they give two hoots about all the righteous anger and moralizing if, in the end, a big beautiful brown box from the music store will be sitting on their front steps?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 05:46:28 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

LPF83

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Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2021, 05:50:57 AM »
Well said.  Sadly, many look at the situation merely as an opportunity to get instruments for less, and nothing else matters.  They get neat stuff, the neat stuff is inexpensive, and that's that.  Why should they give two hoots about all the righteous anger and moralizing if, in the end, a big beautiful brown box from the music store will be sitting on their front steps?

True, and also sadly, to some extent the strategy of lots of low cost products seems aimed toward taking advantage of the addiction that is G.A.S...  the crowd that only gets inspired to use gear that is new to their collection and would rather have tons of cheap gear than a handful of quality pieces.

It's like the difference between having the marketing team figure out how to exploit the psychology of synth buyers and using that outcome to drive product direction and maximize sales, versus going into it with the attitude of "hey let's make great musical instruments that people will still want to play 40-50 years from now".
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: OB-Xa
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2021, 07:30:51 AM »
Well said.  Sadly, many look at the situation merely as an opportunity to get instruments for less, and nothing else matters.  They get neat stuff, the neat stuff is inexpensive, and that's that.  Why should they give two hoots about all the righteous anger and moralizing if, in the end, a big beautiful brown box from the music store will be sitting on their front steps?

I think this comes from people's sense of entitlement. "They are bringing it to the masses instead of the horrible people with privileges!" which is such a bogus mindset. You don't have the right to have a specific synth you earn that right by working, saving up for it and buying it. You aren't owed anything. "Man I hate Sequential I can't afford one! I hate Moog I can't afford one!" well too bad so sad, there's plenty of other affordable gear on the market. It boggles my mind people think the Moog one should be $500 or something. Get bent! Nobody says this about Gibson or Fender, people just go out and get cheaper import guitars...why this sudden hate on for people who are fortunate to have the ability to own expensive equipment?

I have never once seen guys like Synthmania, Mr. Firechild, James Drone or whoever bash people for playing budget instruments so why is it acceptable that it's the other way around?