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Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules

Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« on: January 12, 2021, 10:16:38 AM »


Sequential today announced that it has created desktop versions of their popular Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Rev 4 synths. They feature the same authentic vintage sound and front-panel controls as the Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 keyboards, but in a smaller form factor designed for portability and space-conscious studios.

“Our introduction of the Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Rev 4 keyboards has been hugely successful. At the same time, a lot of people have been asking us for an easy way to fit them into a smaller studio space or into a touring rig,” commented Sequential founder and original Prophet-5 designer Dave Smith. “It was an easy decision to create a desktop module to fill that need. The great thing is, we managed to fit the same big, ballsy sound of the full Prophet-5 into a desktop model. It sounds every bit as awesome.”

Like the original, the new Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 modules feature two multi-waveform analog oscillators, analog resonant low-pass filters and amplifiers, and a filter and amplifier envelope per voice. Modulation is provided by a multi-waveshape LFO and Poly Mod, a ground-breaking modulation scheme for its time that allowed the filter envelope and oscillator B to be routed to a variety of destinations including filter cutoff frequency, oscillator A frequency, and oscillator A pulse width.

And just like the new Prophet-5/10 Rev 4 keyboards, the modules feature genuine Curtis VCOs and filters as used in the Prophet-5 Rev 3, as well as the Dave Rossum-designed SSI 2140 filter — the modern counterpart of the original SSM 2040 Rossum designed in the Prophet-5 Rev 1 and Rev 2. A Rev switch on the front panel allows users to switch between the two as desired.

Also present is the new Vintage knob, which loosens up the oscillators, filters, and envelopes from voice to voice as they typically are in vintage Prophet-5s. Users can dial in progressively more vintage character from a very stable “4,” as in Prophet-5 Rev4, all the way to “1,” as in Prophet-5 Rev1, which was the most temperamental of all Prophet-5s. The original factory sound set is included as well.

Other modern enhancements include velocity sensitivity and aftertouch to increase expressiveness, as well as MIDI and USB connectivity. Control voltage and gate ins/outs are also present for connecting modular synths and other gear. The new modules are housed in a premium-quality, steel case with hand-oiled sustainable black walnut heartwood trim.

Both modules will be available in February. The Prophet-5 desktop module has a US MAP of $2,499. The Prophet-10 desktop module has a US MAP of $3,299.

https://www.sequential.com/2021/01/desktop-prophet-5-10/
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 01:01:15 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2021, 04:44:55 PM »
Awesome stuff.  Glad I got the keyboard but they'll sell these like crazy.
Oberheim TVS 1a | Antonus 2600 | Sequential Prophet 10 | DSI Tempest | Roland RD-2000 | Martin 000-28 Modern Deluxe

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2021, 12:31:07 AM »
Do the knobs on module have the same size as on keyboard version?
Or is it more P6 / OB-6 size?

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2021, 01:04:59 PM »
I'm sorry but, when talking about the Prophet 5 rev4 desktop, a module with one less voice than a P6 (or OB6) desktop version, for about $400 more?  :o
Not really, no thanks.

I can sorta understand the high price tag for the keyboard version, with all that wood casing work, but a module with two minuscule pieces of wood on each side? No.

I was willing to pay a high premium for my OB6 Desktop, because it has got that sweet Oberheim SEM sound that I was looking for, but this Prophet 5 rev4 doesn't even come close to sounding like a Sequential Circuits vintage P5 (in all the dozens of reviews and demos of it anyway). I'm awaiting Alex Ball's direct comparison video coming soon... Maybe that could change my mind about the sound? But I doubt it. Because, unlike Dave Smith's own admission, I, am not deaf.
Minimoog D (vintage), OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), Prophet REV2-16, DeepMind 12, VC340

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2021, 03:39:42 PM »
I'm sorry but, when talking about the Prophet 5 rev4 desktop, a module with one less voice than a P6 (or OB6) desktop version, for about $400 more?  :o
Not really, no thanks.

I can sorta understand the high price tag for the keyboard version, with all that wood casing work, but a module with two minuscule pieces of wood on each side? No.

I was willing to pay a high premium for my OB6 Desktop, because it has got that sweet Oberheim SEM sound that I was looking for, but this Prophet 5 rev4 doesn't even come close to sounding like a Sequential Circuits vintage P5 (in all the dozens of reviews and demos of it anyway). I'm awaiting Alex Ball's direct comparison video coming soon... Maybe that could change my mind about the sound? But I doubt it. Because, unlike Dave Smith's own admission, I, am not deaf.

Price comparisons between two completely different synths based on one more or less voice is kind of a non-starter.  Setting aside videos where someone has jumped through hoops to make them sound the same, the P6 and P5/P10 have a different sound (and honestly my P10 just sounds better overall, even factoring in the vintage knob on the P6).

The Rev 4 includes two filter options - and honestly I think this is one of the most underrated features of the synth.  Everyone goes on about the vintage knob, but being able to flip between filters with such differing characteristics is huge during the sound design process.

Every comment I've read or heard from anyone who owns both a Rev4 and a vintage P5 seems to feel they sound the same.  Do you have either one?  Would you agree that forming an opinion that one doesn't sound like another while having access to neither is a bit biased, to say the least, unless you've heard them in person side by side?

Last night I duplicated the Lyle Mays flute patch "Doctor Mix" recently posted to his channel that he created on his P5 Rev3 and it sounded like a perfect recreation once it was complete.  It took a bit of experimentation to find the exact sweet spots that are not revealed by visually seeing at the dial settings.  The experience of manually recreating that patch using the Rev 3 filter was VERY convincing evidence that the vintage sound has been authentically captured.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2021, 05:40:39 PM »
I agree that if a patch doesn't require a lot of high-end harmonics, the new P5 can probably sound extremely close to a vintage P5. I can program patches on my REV2 that sound identical (99.8%) as a similar patch on my vintage Minimoog D. But there are several things that the Moog can do, that the REV2 simply can't match, and vice versa.

My main gripe about the new P5 is that, so far, when listening to basic, unfiltered, waveforms like the sawtooth, I don't hear the same "in your face" and "buzzy", "sharp as a knife" sawtooth that I remember from my own Prophet 5 rev3.3 back when I had it, that made me say: "Wow! That's impressive!".
That's all.

Minimoog D (vintage), OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), Prophet REV2-16, DeepMind 12, VC340

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2021, 06:11:12 PM »
I agree that if a patch doesn't require a lot of high-end harmonics, the new P5 can probably sound extremely close to a vintage P5. I can program patches on my REV2 that sound identical (99.8%) as a similar patch on my vintage Minimoog D. But there are several things that the Moog can do, that the REV2 simply can't match, and vice versa.

My main gripe about the new P5 is that, so far, when listening to basic, unfiltered, waveforms like the sawtooth, I don't hear the same "in your face" and "buzzy", "sharp as a knife" sawtooth that I remember from my own Prophet 5 rev3.3 back when I had it, that made me say: "Wow! That's impressive!".
That's all.

Our ears start shelving off the higher frequencies as we get older, so it would be a natural progression of the human ear for something to sound brighter in the past than in the present :)  No offense intended, but working from memory isn't quite scientific, especially when comparing something you heard personally to a Youtube digitization of same.

Also see the Starsky Carr video where he noted the effect of the keyboard tracking on the upper filter limit, when comparing it against the P6, some of the demos you've heard may not be accounting for this, I have yet to see a video where every aspect of the synth is really explored.  Then take into consideration there were some videos of the "dark prophets" (as they're being called now), pre-capacitor fix models in the first couple of hundred or so units made, most of which I'm guessing have been repaired by now.

Another factor to keep in mind is whether YT examples you hear have the Rev1/2 or 3 switch engaged.  When the filter  switch is set to Curtis (Rev3), on most sounds its going to let the highs in faster, resulting in a certain punch.  On some sounds this button makes all the difference in the world.  Also with the knobs, a fraction of a mm of travel can make all the difference in the world, especially with a 4 pole filter.

Maybe someone with both a Rev4 and a Rev3 will post some audio comparisons.  The biggest problem I see with comparisons is that the baseline for comparison is having the knob at the same value.  With manufacturing variance and other factors, sometimes very slight adjustments to knobs are needed from synth to synth to compare apples to apples.

Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2021, 07:27:30 PM »
When I first heard my OB6 Desktop, a couple of years ago when I bought it, the first few patches I tried on it made me go "Wow!".
And those were only run-of-the-mill presets! Even my best friend who had bought the P6 heard the same thing, even though he prefers the overall timbre of the P6 over it. And that's perfectly fine with me. The P6 is a superb sounding synth also.

This new P5 hasn't made me go "wow!" yet, like my original P5 did, some years ago. And neither has my best friend either.

Which made me remember that I had brought my Prophet 5 rev3.3 to his house, and we compared it to his Prophet08 at the time, and there was absolutely no contest as to which one was sounding the best (according to our personal taste), side by side. Shortly after he sold his P08 and got the P6.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 07:30:27 PM by AlainHubert »
Minimoog D (vintage), OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), Prophet REV2-16, DeepMind 12, VC340

jok3r

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2021, 12:56:15 AM »
Alain, isn't it possible that your mind is playing tricks on you? Sometimes we overestimate things from the past, because in our memory has everything been better before. Be it synths, cars, or grandmothers apple pie. This often leads to too high expectations of things present, that can never be met.

I did never own a P5 and my opinion is therefore very unbiased. All videos I saw sound very Prophetish and very "wow" to me. And this "wow"-feeling is not smaller as when I watch videos of vintage P5s. But that's also not a very stable base for assumptions.

I would at least wait until there is a really good comparison video between a Rev4 and a Rev3 before you strengthen your opinion about it.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2021, 05:53:13 AM »
When I first heard my OB6 Desktop, a couple of years ago when I bought it, the first few patches I tried on it made me go "Wow!".
And those were only run-of-the-mill presets! Even my best friend who had bought the P6 heard the same thing, even though he prefers the overall timbre of the P6 over it. And that's perfectly fine with me. The P6 is a superb sounding synth also.

This new P5 hasn't made me go "wow!" yet, like my original P5 did, some years ago. And neither has my best friend either.

Which made me remember that I had brought my Prophet 5 rev3.3 to his house, and we compared it to his Prophet08 at the time, and there was absolutely no contest as to which one was sounding the best (according to our personal taste), side by side. Shortly after he sold his P08 and got the P6.

I have a similar reaction to the Oberheim sound in general as you describe with the OB-6, and its one reason that I bought it before my P6.  However, I believe that the general Obie sound is at its best when it is the only guy in the room.  Meaning, it does not fit into mixes as nicely as the Prophet 6, as a general rule.  The P6 is also much more versatile, and I believe in terms of possible capabilities (i.e. the total number of musical use cases it can excel in) is quite a bit greater than the OB6. 

Yet the Rev4 still has them both beat, comparing the sound of the dry Rev4 against the dry signal from OB6 and P6, turning off FX on those units.  I have also done some comparisons using FX plugins, same on each synth to be sure I'm comparing apples to oranges.

I will leave the Rev2 and P'08 out of the discussion for now, because my Rev2 is a great synth, but for purposes of depth and authentic vintage tone, it is not in the same league as the Rev4, its not really a fair fight.  Comparing them side by side would be consistent with the experience you describe, with the P5/10 sounding overwhelmingly better than the P08/Rev2.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 07:15:09 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2021, 06:00:07 AM »
Alain, isn't it possible that your mind is playing tricks on you? Sometimes we overestimate things from the past, because in our memory has everything been better before. Be it synths, cars, or grandmothers apple pie. This often leads to too high expectations of things present, that can never be met.

I did never own a P5 and my opinion is therefore very unbiased. All videos I saw sound very Prophetish and very "wow" to me. And this "wow"-feeling is not smaller as when I watch videos of vintage P5s. But that's also not a very stable base for assumptions.

I would at least wait until there is a really good comparison video between a Rev4 and a Rev3 before you strengthen your opinion about it.

I thought the Neon Nights video (below) was pretty convincing.  In the cases where they don't sound identical, it can be attributed to very slight differences in knob settings.  For example depending on the sound, if poly mod filter amount is set to exactly 2, moving the knob a small amount above or below that number (so that the line is still visually pointing at 2), can have a major impact on the sound.  And I'm sure that manufacturing tolerances make sure that this makes it impossible for every Prophet to sound exactly the same (much less Prophets from two different eras).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tsV0eVijYY
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

jok3r

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2021, 06:58:23 AM »
Oh, I already forgot about this video. My mind is playing tricks on me, too.

I think no 2 analog synth will sound alike exactly, too. I find this video very convincing, too. Watched it again immediately. Sometimes I think his Rev4 sounds a little bit different than the other one, but I would not say better or worse... just different, but as good quality wise.

I will get one, as soon as I saved up for a P10 keyboard version.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2021, 09:34:06 AM »
Oh, I already forgot about this video. My mind is playing tricks on me, too.

I think no 2 analog synth will sound alike exactly, too. I find this video very convincing, too. Watched it again immediately. Sometimes I think his Rev4 sounds a little bit different than the other one, but I would not say better or worse... just different, but as good quality wise.

I will get one, as soon as I saved up for a P10 keyboard version.

Another thing you may notice in that video, some of the classic patches have a lower volume level on the Rev4 than the original, so he should have boosted the volume a bit on those patches that had more presence on the Rev3, not sure why he didn't.  Also not sure if Sequential is planning to address the lower volume issue on classic patches in an OS update or not.  It's been described elsewhere in this forum.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2021, 10:37:15 AM »
Alain, isn't it possible that your mind is playing tricks on you? Sometimes we overestimate things from the past, because in our memory has everything been better before. Be it synths, cars, or grandmothers apple pie. This often leads to too high expectations of things present, that can never be met.

I did never own a P5 and my opinion is therefore very unbiased. All videos I saw sound very Prophetish and very "wow" to me. And this "wow"-feeling is not smaller as when I watch videos of vintage P5s. But that's also not a very stable base for assumptions.

I would at least wait until there is a really good comparison video between a Rev4 and a Rev3 before you strengthen your opinion about it.

Hmm, yeah. You might be right on the memory playing tricks hypothesis.

But I distinctly remember when I first got my Prophet 5 rev3.3, it was sitting next to my Korg Mono/Poly at the time, and it struck me how much more "American" the P5 sounded next to it. And I was simply comparing a single oscillator, with a sawtooth waveform, filter wide open with nothing else. Apples to apples. The Korg sounded very "Japanese", well behaved, perfectly balanced between highs, mids and lows. The P5 was brash in comparison with predominant mids, sizzling highs, and growling lows. And I'm just talking about a single oscillator here!

This new rev4 single oscillator sounds dull with a sawtooth waveform. Period. Even with those unwanted caps removed. What good is a subtractive synthesis analog synth with a low pass filter, if there's not much to subtract, to begin with?

This new P5 compared to a vintage P5 sounds like a Moog Voyager compared to a vintage Minimoog D. That's the best analogy I can use to describe what I'm hearing so far.

But I might perhaps change my mind when I hear this rev4 in person, one day?
Minimoog D (vintage), OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), Prophet REV2-16, DeepMind 12, VC340

A Thousand Eyes

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2021, 12:04:24 PM »
This new rev4 single oscillator sounds dull with a sawtooth waveform. Period. Even with those unwanted caps removed. What good is a subtractive synthesis analog synth with a low pass filter, if there's not much to subtract, to begin with?

You do realize they're using the same VCO chips as the rev 3? Other than that, the rev 1/2 filter is slightly "improved" over the original according to SSI. It sounds like you made up your mind before you even heard the thing, just like your eagerly awaited UB-Xa. Perhaps you're thinking more with your wallet than with your ears...

But I might perhaps change my mind when I hear this rev4 in person, one day?

Then you should have stopped right there until you do.

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2021, 12:41:08 PM »
This new rev4 single oscillator sounds dull with a sawtooth waveform. Period. Even with those unwanted caps removed. What good is a subtractive synthesis analog synth with a low pass filter, if there's not much to subtract, to begin with?

Where did you get your basis for the statement about the dullness of the sawtooth of the Rev4?  The reason I ask, is that in the Starsky Carr video, I notice the keyboard button in the filter section is not illuminated.  Tap that twice so that its on Full, and the saw wave will sound immediately brighter and punchier, as the slope downward past the 21khz range is elevated substantially (more like default brightness of P6).  One might think that this button would only have effect when the filter is not fully open -- and I'm not sure I could offer an explanation other than to say I assume it was done this way because the original P5 was same.  But it makes a world of difference so you are NOT hearing the brightness potential of the saw in that video.

Can someone else with Rev4 confirm above?  Any explanation re: effect of button with filter wide open would be of interest as well.

Also note that in a lot of the YT videos, folks are running the signal through outboard gear.  By the time the saw wave travels through my three Strymon pedals, it is nothing even resembling a pure saw wave anymore.

Yes the "dark prophets" (filtergate) had a brightness issue.  The repaired ones and remedied serials do not.  I don't know what happened with the capacitor issue, but more than likely Dave was just being a good leader when he took the fall for the snafu and blamed his aging ears, so I don't think it's fair or remotely giving the credit he deserves to blame his hearing.  Something like the filter gate incident can happen with something as simple as the wrong diagram being attached to an e-mail.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2021, 10:50:08 PM »
Okay. I'll just shut up about it, then. For now.

I just wish that Dave would have done a proper Prophet 5 clone, and not a rev4.

 
Minimoog D (vintage), OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), Prophet REV2-16, DeepMind 12, VC340

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2021, 05:15:06 AM »
Okay. I'll just shut up about it, then. For now.

I just wish that Dave would have done a proper Prophet 5 clone, and not a rev4.

The consensus, including from those that own both, is that the Rev4 is a proper reissue, with added features such as filter switch, after touch and velocity, USB, etc.  If your opinion differs from consensus, then that's fine, but to continually pontificate that it doesn't sound like the original with nothing to substantiate the claim is pretty much beating a dead horse.  At least be ready to bring something to the table that supports your claim, because when everyone else says it is and you say it isn't, the burden of proof is on you.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2021, 07:33:33 PM »
Can anyone from Sequential (or whomever else has hands on experience) comment on the size of the knobs on P5/10 desktop versions? Judging from photos, they look to be smaller than on the keyboard version, but a bit larger than those on the Prophet 6?

jok3r

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Re: Prophet-5 and Prophet-10 Desktop Modules
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2021, 01:14:41 PM »
Okay. I'll just shut up about it, then. For now.

I just wish that Dave would have done a proper Prophet 5 clone, and not a rev4.

The consensus, including from those that own both, is that the Rev4 is a proper reissue, with added features such as filter switch, after touch and velocity, USB, etc.  If your opinion differs from consensus, then that's fine, but to continually pontificate that it doesn't sound like the original with nothing to substantiate the claim is pretty much beating a dead horse.  At least be ready to bring something to the table that supports your claim, because when everyone else says it is and you say it isn't, the burden of proof is on you.

Just found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzF_X3R_yY8

In the second half, he is comparing both revisions. I think this is pretty convincing that the new ones sound very good.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES