The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Vintage knob function for PX?

Vintage knob function for PX?
« on: January 06, 2021, 10:22:13 AM »
Hi folks,

as you know the slop knob only works right directly with the VA engine on the PX. Used as mod source for samples in the matrix, it is drifting way to far with only a mod amount set to 1.

So it would be cool to overdo the slop parameter and make it work correctly on samples and to add the vintage function as well. This would bringt the samples in the PX really alive without sacrifing a few random LFOs in the matrix.

How do you guys at Sequential think about this? Would it be makeable?

Kind Regards Paul

OB6 desktop x2, DSI Rev2 16, Toraiz AS-1, Prophet 12, Pro 2, Vermona 14, Roland System 8, Matrixbrute, Jomox Sunsyn MKII

blewis

  • **
  • 235
Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2021, 03:49:17 PM »
FWIW, Iíve reported the slop scaling issue in the mod matrix to sample pitch to Sequential support.

I did get a reply saying they were able to replicate and observe the same.

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2021, 04:30:28 PM »
FWIW, Iíve reported the slop scaling issue in the mod matrix to sample pitch to Sequential support.

I did get a reply saying they were able to replicate and observe the same.

Thank you for the info. Good to hear Sequential is aware of that issue. In relation to this subject, I had reported this bug together with a "glide" bug on random LFO to pitch, but support staff wrote they could not replicate them and I had to send a video. I was not able to do so, so the ticket just ran out. Explanation LFO bug: To add desired drift to samples instead of selecting slop in the matrix, I picked a random LFO to produce a slightly different sample pitch on every keytrigger (to simulate different voiceboards). But everytime I hit a new key, the pitch bended from it's initial note value to the random LFO pitch with a kind of very fast portamento, so you could hear a little glide effect. It seemed to my ears, as if I the PX first plays it's correct associated pitch with the note until the order information in the matrix list is reached centiseconds afterwards, resulting in a sort of lag.

I would be interested if others stumbled about this little issue as well?
OB6 desktop x2, DSI Rev2 16, Toraiz AS-1, Prophet 12, Pro 2, Vermona 14, Roland System 8, Matrixbrute, Jomox Sunsyn MKII

LoboLives

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2021, 03:08:55 PM »
Personally I donít think itís needed at all in the PX. Iím not sure how it would benefit something that is primarily sample based. Iíd much rather see full MPE support on the PX and the ability to transpose the sequencer on the fly without having to hold down the record button.

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2021, 09:33:41 PM »
Personally I donít think itís needed at all in the PX. Iím not sure how it would benefit something that is primarily sample based. Iíd much rather see full MPE support on the PX and the ability to transpose the sequencer on the fly without having to hold down the record button.

Thank you for your input. Following your logic, a vintage knob function is not needed, I start to wonder, why most 8DIO sample libraries for the PX are vintage instruments?

In it's pure form, every sample you play on a keyboard is a 1:1 copy of itself. The usual work to bring some life into sampled instruments was changing a sample on every key stroke (by velocity or rotation), but this uses additional memory places and often it is not easy to realize in a basic sample managing software.

Now Sequential had the great idea of improving it's classic slop parameter by adding more variations at once with the so called "Vintage knob". Why shouldn't benefit sampled instruments from this feature as well? If you really don't want variety on your samples at all, you are not forced to use any sort of modulation. Just my opinion.
OB6 desktop x2, DSI Rev2 16, Toraiz AS-1, Prophet 12, Pro 2, Vermona 14, Roland System 8, Matrixbrute, Jomox Sunsyn MKII

LoboLives

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2021, 08:23:51 AM »
Personally I donít think itís needed at all in the PX. Iím not sure how it would benefit something that is primarily sample based. Iíd much rather see full MPE support on the PX and the ability to transpose the sequencer on the fly without having to hold down the record button.

Thank you for your input. Following your logic, a vintage knob function is not needed, I start to wonder, why most 8DIO sample libraries for the PX are vintage instruments?

In it's pure form, every sample you play on a keyboard is a 1:1 copy of itself. The usual work to bring some life into sampled instruments was changing a sample on every key stroke (by velocity or rotation), but this uses additional memory places and often it is not easy to realize in a basic sample managing software.

Now Sequential had the great idea of improving it's classic slop parameter by adding more variations at once with the so called "Vintage knob". Why shouldn't benefit sampled instruments from this feature as well? If you really don't want variety on your samples at all, you are not forced to use any sort of modulation. Just my opinion.

You have velocity to control the filter amount and amp amount. That usually adds enough variation on a sample sound. I'm not sure what benefit introducing random pitch drift, envelope slop would have on string samples or brass samples or piano samples. Moreover, I don't even think it would work properly on multisamples. Much like how glide only works on stretched samples and not multisamples.

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2021, 11:14:29 AM »
Glide is limited by the limited pitch shift range of the default algorithm, even before you consider the desire to follow the timbral variation represented by a variety of samples.  It's a pretty different consideration when you're just talking about subtle detuning, which is absolutely possible.  There are also variations applied to envelopes with the vintage mode adjustments, if memory serves.

That said, I do tend to agree that it's not as simple as applying the exact same work and being happy with just that for the Prophet X, though the MPE support would be most welcome.  There are just a lot of other opportunities to enhance the instrument in ways that are more uniquely suited to its architecture and character.  Support for larger SSD storage for samples would be lovely, of course.  I'm also still hopeful that moving loop points while preserving cross-fading consistently could be done if it were a priority, and I'd love to see a way to load samples and corresponding presets into available areas without the author having to anticipate where they're going to load.  Then there are all the little nuisances, like wanting to see the name of a preset you're about to overwrite when saving (perhaps showing it when holding compare?)

mkx

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2021, 02:12:18 PM »
There are just a lot of other opportunities to enhance the instrument in ways that are more uniquely suited to its architecture and character.  Support for larger SSD storage for samples would be lovely, of course. 


Open-sourcing firmware and basic functions is so 2000s, yet..

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2021, 09:21:34 PM »
First post here: Thanks a ton to Lady Gaia above for her incredibly useful software engineering on the px toolkit--it really made a tremendous difference to me in my decision to purchase this synth originally and in how I use it.

I have to say that MPE support and some an implementation of the vintage knob for samples would be absolutely delightful. Hearing what the vintage knob does to the OB6/P6 it's immediately obvious that it gets those synths much closer to 'that sound'. Of course 'that sound' isn't too important for everybody, but 'that sound' is why I got into synthesis in the first place.

Contra a lot of people on this and other forums, I have always suspected that one of Dave's primary objectives with this synth was actually in part to be able to recreate a large number of vintage analogues in a single box--hence the set of 8dio add ons that we ended up seeing. Of course the filters would never be able to accommodate every particular sound--it's hard to get a perfect 12db filter sound out of the X-- but it it still remarkable how close one can get if you spend some time on sound design.

And yet, there's always a gap. The vintage knob really seems to close that gap a bit.

In as far as the vintage knob involves modulating pitch per voice and envelope timings on the filter and the VCA, I can't help but believe that the vintage knob could be applied on the X to both samples and digital oscillators. The details haven't been entirely revealed as far as I'm aware, but I hold out hope that the vintage knob might be ported here, at least in part.

It seems like Sequentials MO is largely to release a new synth, provide a few support updates, and then move on to something else for a while before returning to a synth and providing support details--I certainly hope that is the case with the X.

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2021, 05:55:47 PM »
A Vintage Knob and MPE support (or a Channel per Voice Setting) update like on the P6 would absolutely make sense for the ProphetX/XL. sure there are some other nice feature requests but those new features would especially make sense to breathe live into samples or single cycle waveforms on the Prophet X.

2511

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2021, 11:28:11 PM »
I vote for a Vintage Knob too for the PX !!!

sofine

  • **
  • 121
Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2021, 06:37:03 AM »
+1 for vintage
+1 for MPE
+1 for better sample / preset management

GGW

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2021, 07:34:33 PM »
+1 for vintage

drxcm

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2021, 12:12:22 AM »
Iíd like some kind of implementation of this too.

Whatís the downside of having another modulation source available?

blewis

  • **
  • 235
Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2021, 09:38:41 AM »
I bet a Vintage knob function would give a nice quick spread of the stereo filters from a simple knob turn.

Yes, you can tweak left/right cutoff, res, and randomize the ENV a bit, but it takes time and chews up mod slots.

Turning a Vintage knob and getting something equivalent that is already ďtuned as musicalĒ would be fantastic.

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2021, 11:50:40 PM »
+1 for the vintage knob!

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2021, 01:17:13 PM »
+1 Vintage knob!!!

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2021, 02:45:58 PM »
Nice to see so much feedback on this, but I ask myself how does Sequential think about it? Any updates?
OB6 desktop x2, DSI Rev2 16, Toraiz AS-1, Prophet 12, Pro 2, Vermona 14, Roland System 8, Matrixbrute, Jomox Sunsyn MKII

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2021, 04:55:28 PM »
+1 Vintage Knob

Re: Vintage knob function for PX?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2021, 10:35:59 AM »
Would love the vintage knob function as well.