The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Voice expansion

Voice expansion
« on: January 03, 2021, 12:50:31 PM »
Im not sure this has been asked but will there be an option to expand the voice count in the prophet 5 like the current option for the rev 2?

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2021, 09:16:14 AM »
I hope with the desktops now announced that this does indeed happen.

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2021, 08:15:43 AM »
Yeah, I really really want this to happen. I'll buy it in 2 seconds flat.

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2021, 09:11:22 AM »
I would also buy as soon as its available!

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 11:59:35 PM »

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2021, 06:59:53 PM »
With the recent PU2 addition, it makes the P10 a no-brainer over the P5.

Unfortunately, when I purchased the P5, this feature did not exist. Hopefully, they will allow us, P5 owners, to buy another voice board, making it a P10.

The firmware is the same for P5 and P10, which probably detects the additional board and reacts accordingly.

The voice board itself is just slotted in place, making it very easy to do it yourself.

I think this will be possible to upgrade. However, it will definitely come with a hefty price making the P10 cheaper than a P5+5. Otherwise, the P5 will cannibalize the P10 sales.

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2021, 11:55:27 PM »
I bought the P5 just because I wanted a P5 and nothing else and Iím perfectly happy with that. But with the new features (voice layer) implemented I hope Sequential will release an additional 5 voice board to the P5. At the other hand voice layering many times sounds better in stereo, at least in my ears, and then it can be achieved by multitracking etc. Another option would be to add a Desktop P5 to the P5 and get an sort of old style P10... A little pricy but sweet.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 12:04:57 AM by Analog Prophet »

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2021, 11:25:44 AM »
I bought the P5 just because I wanted a P5 and nothing else and Iím perfectly happy with that. But with the new features (voice layer) implemented I hope Sequential will release an additional 5 voice board to the P5.

I'm with you on this. I appreciate the extra features on the rev 4 models - they feel like the natural next step in the evolution of the 5. And I hope there is indeed a 5-voice extension card for those who want it, but I'm so used to the "limitations" of the P5 that I can't see myself aching for more voices. Too many toes spoil the finger, or whatever the phrase is!

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2021, 09:04:03 PM »
I'd hate to be limited to 5 voices on a synth that sounds as good as the new Rev 4s, in 5 voice mode when i try it it's jarring and unnatural for much of my playing/composing. Lots of the new epic nature of the rev 4 comes out ONLY on a Prophet 10 with Round Robin mode on, and in 10 full voices flowing orangically. If I'm going 5 voice then I don't mind using Poly unison and having note stealing specifically as a compromise for that thick 4 osc poly sound...

I'm not getting into this again here vs other forums but suffice to say that 5 voices is hella low for ANY poly regardless of what people made with limits/had to put up with 40 years ago. 10 voices is pure heaven on a synth this good and FINALLY beats the jupiter 8 on that score (by 2 voices no less!) and puts the Prophet (5) 10 where it ought to have been all along.

No, too many toes do not spoil the finger? no more than on other high poly units from the jupiter 8 on... too few voices SPOIL a ton of stuff though, to the point it's almost unusable on over 75% of the stuff I, and many others inc old rev 2/3 owners who used to curse the low poly, use them for.

Lets keep this in perspective and not start nay-saying the glory of 10 voices, properly done, at last on probably the best sounding well balanced poly analog ever made that lacked in 2 key areas in the past, poly and weird 'static' voice allocation, both now fixed in the Prophet 10.. along with the other 'improvements' like unison detune, A/T and Velocity and poly unusions that made it to both the 5 and 10 rev 4s. I see quite a few new P5 owners attempting to 'put down' 10 voices as some kinda bad thing and that's ridiculous, those of us who have Prophet 10s can HEAR what an amazing improvement the 10 voices are for natural chord to chord changes (NO MUD just natural) and long solo runs - not to mention it makes poly unsion (at then 5 voices) more than usuable for the occasional thing.

I think once Sequential have cleared the backlog of orders, they can look at the 5 voice expansion as it seems EASILY doable as said above, it literally just plugs into some connectors and screws on top of the main board... I think it's more about supply AND differentiation of units right now. I think if they offer that expansion we'll see quite a few '10 voice nay sayers' changing their tune and buying the upgrade, esp once they actually PLAY it with 10 voices (in a shop) instead of just assuming 10 voices is 'too much' or 'too fat' or 'impossible to mix' like some of the misinformed and self-justifying people posting on certain forums.

Those that are 100% happy with 5 voices can then just stick with the P5 and save money, nobody cares what others do but to imply 10 voices is a downgrade is pure BS, it's heavenly to have synth THIS great sounding, better sounding than the Jupiter 8... with high enough poly to do it justice and not have it sound like some weird 'sampled' effect when chords constantly cut off.

Prophet 10 is def a no brainer now IF you can afford it, and I see most pros on reviews/forums/videos (ie sonic state) opting for the 10 cos they know also that 5 was always one of the achiles heels of the otherwise world beating P5, esp with poly unsion AND the 5 voice 'dumb down' mode now in the FW anyway. I always wanted a Prophet 5 (vintage) even as the prices rose, but the one thing I KNEW would kill me and stopped me even looking (even though I've owned loads of vintage) was the 5 voice poly not being enough to even play my usual 4 right 2 left chords... so even without the natural flow of 10 voices, 5 voices was just too little for me as a 'proper player' (who also plays piano), 6 voices is my minimum for ANY synth. 10 voices gives enough to allow chords to flow without either clashing or hearing the (2 notes) note stealing on full 6 voice change overs. It's PERFECT.. 10 voices is no flaw or thing that needs working around, I always felt it was a sweet spot for poly analogs. The AN1x that tried to mimic a Prophet 5 in VA had 10 voice poly and worked great (other than not actually sounding like a prophet 5! lol)

 The rest is dependent on your badge pref then, and for me Prophet 5 is the past now.. Prophet 10 is the future.. a genuine powerhouse/worhty upgrade and imo the BEST prophet ever made... better than a vintage P5 rev 2 with its many real-world/daily use drawbacks, better than the old Prophet 10's with their fugly design and different, softer sound and organ looking/over the top dual manuals just to allow space for heat reasons (not to mention the prices of those!)

Originally the allure of the "Prophet 5" name had me in my feels, but the poly was just too low to reconcile... thank god they had sense to release a genuine modern update in the P10, I couldn't go from my (nowhere near as good sounding ex Prophet 6 to 1 less voice for even more money no matter how good the rev 4 sounds by comparison!). Also, I'm now over the Prophet 5 name, it holds only some kudos to synth nuts, not the general public/music fans, and no point kidding anyone... only the VINTAGE Prophet 5's had that kudos, neither then new P5 or P10 has that (and arguably even the vintage ones will now lose it cos they just don't make sense any more vs the rev 4s - P5 or P10). So overall the game has been reset, the P5 (vintage) is the past, the P10 name (now) has been agreeably 'corrected' to be a monster synth but in a balanced/sleek package that actually sounds as good/better than vintage P5's did. For the next 40? years of music I think the rev 4 Prophet 10 badge will gain kudos, and if they stop making rev 4s which they eventually will even if 10 years from now, it'll be the Prophet 10 that is the highly revered not some dusty old P5 we once all loved from our younger days on music we can now (copy if we must?) on the Rev 4s anyway. The rev 4s are the best synth release in many years, probably since the 80s and has reset the game, certainly the vintage game, and has made people realise how many other synths just don't pass muster - from digital VAs, to soft  synths, to insipid modern analogs with cold dull tone, to the ULI-B distasteful clones... even to the Jupiter 8 - nice as it is - it sounds hella thin and lacking in grit, grunt and ballz next to the new Prophet 10 rev 4... so maybe even the JP-8 vintage market will start to receed a little on price too. Sequential are gods for redoing the Prophet 5/10 and giving us what we've all wanted all along... stunning sound, great looks, great build and relatively good pricing. THANK YOU DAVE and co!

Prophet 10 rev 4 *IS* the new daddy of Prophets, like Rev 2 Prophet 5 (double the rev double the voices! ;) ) used to be! Although the VCOs don't change, the 2 filter choices also make this a no brainer over any vintage P5/P10 (the extra doo dahs of the vintage P10s is hardly worth the expense/space/hassle/downsides and slightly inferior tone)

and as this site: states...

From this point of view, the new single keyboard Prophet-10 Rev 4 marketed in 2020 represents the confirmation of the original vision of Dave Smith and John Bowen: a single keyboard, with an agile profile, with all the commands necessary to manage the programming of ten polyphony voices each equipped with the same devastating dynamic power of a good monophonic synthesizer.

Which I agree with 100%. The prophet 10 rev 4 is the dream synth Dave had always wanted to make. Everything else so far has been a compromise.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 10:34:13 PM by SynthHead »
Prophet 10 Rev 4 | Prologue 16

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2021, 04:41:38 AM »
 I donít intend to debate 5 vs 10 voices - itís great Dave decided making them both. I believe itís about what the personal style of playing is. I prefer simplicity but with finesse, both from other musicians and if possible from myself as well - the computer always win the play-as-fast-and-complicated-as-possible-battle anyhow. One of my synth heroís is Vince Clarke because his way to use few well selected notes and timing to combine to masterpieces (no further comparison to Vince Clarke). That's the direction of my preferences and a reason why 5 voices not is a limitation to me.

With the new option to turn off 5 voices to get the genuine P5 voice steeling signature sound it wont hurt with 10 voices - the new layering mode is a blast. I tried to mimic it by stacking two takes. My first impression is it sounds slightly different with the voice layering mode as the voices seem to modulates each other in a beautiful way. At the other hand stacking gives stereo option if desired. When/if Dave release an optional 5 voice I will definitely get one, no matter how much it will hurt my limited economy, as the new options from firmware 1.5 gives the best options of every aspect of one of the best synth ever made.


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Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2021, 05:15:57 AM »
One of the things I've learned over the years about the creation music is that dogmatism is awkwardly out of place when it comes to music or any other art form.  The GS forums are an example of how overtly passionate opinions can clutter the headspace and turn otherwise interesting discussions into what becomes ineffectual and pointless.

That said, I'm going to be slightly dogmatic anyway :), and say that poly-unison mode really took the Rev4 to the next level, and is the understated move that put the Rev4 into the top slot of the best poly analogs... no, best synths, ever made.  I think there are many P5 Rev4 owners who will want this feature with 5 note polyphony, so for that reason I hope Dave makes an expansion board available; 5 notes of PU2 mode takes on a new dimension, and to a large extent I think poly-unison is one reason the Jupiter-8 was so popular in the first place, as it helped to overcome thinness even when the divide-down resulted in lowered polyphony.  However, the Rev4 DOES NOT have a thinness problem, and in my opinion the traditional 5 voices of P5 already sounds rich, and the note stealing becomes an important musical characteristic.  Further more, depending on the sound and the playstyle, it's so rich sounding that sometimes 10 notes is too much and it can get messy -- so I like having options.

Since the upgrade, I find myself using all of the various modes (5-note PolyUni, 10-note, and 5-note P5 mode) and primarily P5-style voice stealing... but this is because these features are new and I'm mostly in experimental mode with them.   Time will tell which one I use most.

One thing I can say for certain, owning this synth is immensely satisfying for me and it has exceeded my expectations.  I think the reissue of the Rev4 is a monumental event in analog synth history.  The improvements like dual filters, poly-unison, vintage modes, etc.  make it much more valuable to me than a vintage P5 would have been. 

It's usually hard for me to pick favorites among musical instruments I've owned, because they all have their strengths.  But my P10 is different, it very clearly separates itself from every other synth I've played, and is my undisputed favorite instrument.   If Roland did an authentic re-issue of the Jupiter-8, and did so at a price point that's close to the Rev4, I would probably have to have one, but even then I would still call the P10 the king.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2021, 04:31:22 PM »
This is actually something I took a month or so to ponder before I picked up a Rev 4. I ended up going with another P5 (had a Rev 3 that was sold to make room for the Rev4). For me the poly limitations were always part of the "prophet experience," which is just my own personal experience of course.

I really like limitations in the context of creativity, it definitely helps me zone in more on the music and less on the other stuff. I have the Arturia V Collection, for example, and although the sounds are rather impressive and very useable I find myself just menu diving on my PC for ages and just tinkering with sounds but never getting fully into a creative headspace. With the P5 the limitations really are good boundaries for the creative process and they really help me out personally. Generally I'll come up with something on the Prophet and then use some of the more complex synths or vsynths to fill in the rest. 

In the future if an expansion board was available I would still absolutely pick it up. I can't say I would install it right away, but having the option for more voices wouldn't be a bad thing because I have no idea what I'll want down the line. 

Re: Voice expansion
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2021, 10:36:01 AM »
Not that we're voting here, but I would love to see this option offered at some point. :)