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This synth is underrated

LPF83

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This synth is underrated
« on: December 22, 2020, 03:03:21 PM »
I've only had my P12 desktop module a few weeks, and I'm well aware I'm late to the party.

But wow what a great synth!...truly underrated.  Not just in the way it sounds, but the palette it provides for sound design opportunities....Not just musically useful sounds, but bizarre film score type of sounds, it just begs for experimentation. 

The range of sounds it is capable of, it's sort of like a DX7 and a PPG Wave had a baby that was adopted by a Prophet 5 shortly after birth, thus learned to behave as a subtractive synth :)

My "warm analog" needs are well-met by my other synths....the P12 brings something truly unique to my music creation process.  I see now why Dave calls it his favorite of their product line.

I'm eager to see what the successor to the P12 might be... maybe there's not one planned, and that's why they still sell the module?

I was on the fence about buying the module, the KB was discontinued and I was afraid I would miss all the knobs and sliders.  But, for now I have two expression pedals and I just remap the sliders in the mod matrix.  IMO the additional knobs aren't needed because the user interface is brilliant throughout.. For now I don't feel I'm missing too much by not having pressure.   Am I wrong about that?  And if so are there external MIDI touch slider controllers I should be considering? 

Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

LoboLives

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2020, 06:50:52 PM »
Agree 100%. I truly hope we see a successor to this or the Poly Evolver or a mixture between the 2. I don't know if I'd prefer 4 digital oscillators or 2 digital oscillators (wavetables, FM) and 2 VCOs.

It really is something that is missing from Sequential's current lineup.

Although Dave said their next two instruments are analog...so....we likely won't see it for a while.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 07:31:38 PM by LoboLives »

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2020, 04:43:18 AM »
I totally agree! Every time i come back to the p12 after a while im like "WOAH, what a beast". Im very happy i bought one of these!

LPF83

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Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2020, 04:54:50 AM »
Agree 100%. I truly hope we see a successor to this or the Poly Evolver or a mixture between the 2. I don't know if I'd prefer 4 digital oscillators or 2 digital oscillators (wavetables, FM) and 2 VCOs.

It really is something that is missing from Sequential's current lineup.

Although Dave said their next two instruments are analog...so....we likely won't see it for a while.

Yeah, I'd love to see a Poly Evolver MKII module with 6-8 voice polyphony.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2020, 10:44:11 AM »
LPF83,

Several years ago when I first got my P12 it really surprised me too.  It had a bottom end more than I was expecting.   It can be very crisp or very analoguish too when dialing in just a little slop on each oscillator.

 You asked about pressure.   I  do use pressure AT quite a bit.  I think its because  here's so many ways to mod route on this instrument that  option to make AT one of those routings  is always available.  It responds to other instruments AT signals just fine, so you could have that option easily.    As an example....using the Linn Instrument controller hooked to to the P12.....  once I got the bend ranges and everything set up this  control device really works good in conjunction with P12.     


So after owning P12 for a few years now  I'm better able to defend why it'll be a keeper.   In short,  I love that it has a a raw palette to work from.  No pre- routed assumptions that bother me so much on the some other polys I own.   Let me put the darn LFO or extra envelope where I want it to go!  P12 does  allows that perfectly.  This is a synth users synth-  meaning that it entices you to build a patch ground up before prematurely engaging reverbs and other effects.   

My only complaint on the ergonomics would be that switching between layer A and B can be hard to tell what layer you are immediately editing and with the write button so close by the layer select it caused accidental write overs to happen a few times.



« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 10:52:24 AM by Soundquest »
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

LPF83

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Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2020, 12:36:56 PM »
LPF83,

Several years ago when I first got my P12 it really surprised me too.  It had a bottom end more than I was expecting.   It can be very crisp or very analoguish too when dialing in just a little slop on each oscillator.

 You asked about pressure.   I  do use pressure AT quite a bit.  I think its because  here's so many ways to mod route on this instrument that  option to make AT one of those routings  is always available.  It responds to other instruments AT signals just fine, so you could have that option easily.    As an example....using the Linn Instrument controller hooked to to the P12.....  once I got the bend ranges and everything set up this  control device really works good in conjunction with P12.     


So after owning P12 for a few years now  I'm better able to defend why it'll be a keeper.   In short,  I love that it has a a raw palette to work from.  No pre- routed assumptions that bother me so much on the some other polys I own.   Let me put the darn LFO or extra envelope where I want it to go!  P12 does  allows that perfectly.  This is a synth users synth-  meaning that it entices you to build a patch ground up before prematurely engaging reverbs and other effects.   

My only complaint on the ergonomics would be that switching between layer A and B can be hard to tell what layer you are immediately editing and with the write button so close by the layer select it caused accidental write overs to happen a few times.

Thanks for the response, and so true about encouraging you to focus on getting the magic from the sound itself and not solely from the FX, this is something that struck me about it in the first few days of using it.

The layer juggling doesn't bother me, simply because it's very much like how it works on the Rev2 which I had already gotten used to before acquiring this module.

But I have to apologize, my original message wasn't very clear on my question regarding pressure -- I was referring to the pressure on the sliders (there is slider1 position, slider1 pressure and same for slider2 in the mod matrix) rather than AT pressure on the keys themselves.   Right now I use two pedals reassigned to foot and breath controller in global settings, and when I want to use the sliders as a preset was designed, I just reassign slider1 and 2 position to the two pedals.  But, of course pedals don't offer pressure, so I was trying to get a feel for whether I was really missing out or not.  In my experience touch sliders are not all that playable anyway (at least not as much so as pedals), but I have no idea how responsive the ones on the P12 keyboard are.   I will edit my original post to add clarity about what type of pressure I'm referring to.

Do you find that you use the pressure on the two sliders very often?
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

LPF83

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Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2020, 12:37:21 PM »
I've only had my P12 desktop module a few weeks, and I'm well aware I'm late to the party.

But wow what a great synth!...truly underrated.  Not just in the way it sounds, but the palette it provides for sound design opportunities....Not just musically useful sounds, but bizarre film score type of sounds, it just begs for experimentation. 

The range of sounds it is capable of, it's sort of like a DX7 and a PPG Wave had a baby that was adopted by a Prophet 5 shortly after birth, thus learned to behave as a subtractive synth :)

My "warm analog" needs are well-met by my other synths....the P12 brings something truly unique to my music creation process.  I see now why Dave calls it his favorite of their product line.

I'm eager to see what the successor to the P12 might be... maybe there's not one planned, and that's why they still sell the module?

I was on the fence about buying the module, the KB was discontinued and I was afraid I would miss all the knobs and sliders.  But, for now I have two expression pedals and I just remap the sliders in the mod matrix.  IMO the additional knobs aren't needed because the user interface is brilliant throughout.. For now I don't feel I'm missing too much by not having the two sliders plus pressure on each slider.   Am I wrong about that?  And if so are there external MIDI touch slider controllers I should be considering?
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2020, 09:52:28 AM »
LPF83,

Ahh, gotcha.... you meant pressure feature on the sliders.  Ok that makes more sense.  I have to agree with you fully.  I do not use that at all.  I had played with it a bit when first getting the instrument but found that application awkward to use while playing.  It also seemed "too steep of a slope"  for whatever mod I was controlling from it.   In fact when I do use the sliders at all, its only to set in them in  steady hold mode- where a preset level can be left in one spot adjusted.  Again, the idea of grazing these little pads with your finger while playing just seems to make too abrupt of a change.  This versus a mod wheel- where the resistance and place to rest your finger allows a more steady control.   I don't have much use for the sliders and would rather opt for a third pedal if that was a choice.  Sliders might be good for persons interested in rhythmic  pulses and such.

I remember my Roland Gia had a light beam thing called "D beam" as an auxiliary control.  That was sort of cool because the slope of adjustment was pretty gradual, depending on your room lighting.

Speaking of sliders....Not sure I'm too exited about that control blob they put on the side of the Polybrute.  I don't know,  I'll need to try it I guess.   On the other hand, the one across the top of the keys looks very useable.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 09:53:59 AM by Soundquest »
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

LPF83

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Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2020, 10:21:23 AM »
LPF83,

Ahh, gotcha.... you meant pressure feature on the sliders.  Ok that makes more sense.  I have to agree with you fully.  I do not use that at all.  I had played with it a bit when first getting the instrument but found that application awkward to use while playing.  It also seemed "too steep of a slope"  for whatever mod I was controlling from it.   In fact when I do use the sliders at all, its only to set in them in  steady hold mode- where a preset level can be left in one spot adjusted.  Again, the idea of grazing these little pads with your finger while playing just seems to make too abrupt of a change.  This versus a mod wheel- where the resistance and place to rest your finger allows a more steady control.   I don't have much use for the sliders and would rather opt for a third pedal if that was a choice.  Sliders might be good for persons interested in rhythmic  pulses and such.

I remember my Roland Gia had a light beam thing called "D beam" as an auxiliary control.  That was sort of cool because the slope of adjustment was pretty gradual, depending on your room lighting.

Speaking of sliders....Not sure I'm too exited about that control blob they put on the side of the Polybrute.  I don't know,  I'll need to try it I guess.   On the other hand, the one across the top of the keys looks very useable.

Thanks, good to know I'm not missing anything with the sliders of the keyboard version.  Feeling very satisfied with the module.

Interesting you should mention the Morphee control (I think that's what they are calling it) on the Polybrute, because I was eyeballing the Expressive E Touche controller, which basically looks like a standalone version of same.  I decided to back away from it for now, I got the impression that fiddling with the software and trying to make it do what I expected it to do may not be worth it.  But maybe it is a good solution for some?  I like pedals because they free my hands to do the actual playing, work the other knobs, etc.



Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2020, 12:23:24 PM »
The P12 was heavilly bashed when it was released, probably due to the choice of digital oscillators... I was one of the only ones to try to defend it and I don't regret since it pushed me to improve my sound design skills...

And now, after have decided I could live without the P6, nor the OB-6, I wonder if I really need the P5 rev4 coz Dave's Interview about it gave me some details, then I tried to use one of the sliders as a pseudo "vintage" knob, and it gave inspiring results, I made a new song and my singress is currently writing the lyrics :-p
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 12:26:58 PM by Mr Kay »

LPF83

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Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2020, 01:31:30 PM »
The P12 was heavilly bashed when it was released, probably due to the choice of digital oscillators... I was one of the only ones to try to defend it and I don't regret since it pushed me to improve my sound design skills...

And now, after have decided I could live without the P6, nor the OB-6, I wonder if I really need the P5 rev4 coz Dave's Interview about it gave me some details, then I tried to use one of the sliders as a pseudo "vintage" knob, and it gave inspiring results, I made a new song and my singress is currently writing the lyrics :-p

I think the timing of when the P12 release probably had a lot to do with disdain for digital operators.   The market had no shortage of virtual analog options at the time, what was missing was GOOD VCO based analog polys (a need finally fulfilled with the P6 and OB-6).  I can kind of understand that, because what I like about the P12 is that it covers a completely different set of territory compared to my analog synths.  If I were using it as a replacement for VCOs, I would be left wanting.

At the moment I'm into a vintage sound, and a lot of the sounds of the 80's were a combination of analog and digital.. I think it's the blending of the two that sounds so good.  Not that the P12 isn't capable of sounding analogish, it's just that I specifically bought it for it's "digital but with analog filters" sound... something I cannot get as easily from soft synths or my other hardware.

So, my hunch is you would still enjoy a P5/P10 Rev4 (or even a P6/OB6) if you chose to add one to your toolbox.  You'll find that they are just harmonically as different from the P12 as night and day... and I think that's why they complement each other in a mix so well.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 01:34:04 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

LoboLives

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2020, 09:30:52 PM »
The P12 was heavilly bashed when it was released, probably due to the choice of digital oscillators... I was one of the only ones to try to defend it and I don't regret since it pushed me to improve my sound design skills...

And now, after have decided I could live without the P6, nor the OB-6, I wonder if I really need the P5 rev4 coz Dave's Interview about it gave me some details, then I tried to use one of the sliders as a pseudo "vintage" knob, and it gave inspiring results, I made a new song and my singress is currently writing the lyrics :-p

I think the timing of when the P12 release probably had a lot to do with disdain for digital operators.   The market had no shortage of virtual analog options at the time, what was missing was GOOD VCO based analog polys (a need finally fulfilled with the P6 and OB-6).  I can kind of understand that, because what I like about the P12 is that it covers a completely different set of territory compared to my analog synths.  If I were using it as a replacement for VCOs, I would be left wanting.

At the moment I'm into a vintage sound, and a lot of the sounds of the 80's were a combination of analog and digital.. I think it's the blending of the two that sounds so good.  Not that the P12 isn't capable of sounding analogish, it's just that I specifically bought it for it's "digital but with analog filters" sound... something I cannot get as easily from soft synths or my other hardware.

So, my hunch is you would still enjoy a P5/P10 Rev4 (or even a P6/OB6) if you chose to add one to your toolbox.  You'll find that they are just harmonically as different from the P12 as night and day... and I think that's why they complement each other in a mix so well.

I think a lot of it had to do with people's ignorance when it comes to a "Prophet" synth. Most people think they were only analog synths and any deviation to that is blasphemy. Obviously these people have no knowledge of the history of the company or it's synths.

Personally even though I'd appreciate a VCO/Wavetable oscillator hybrid....having 4 digital oscillators with wavetables and linear FM I actually find more attractive because the idea of "A new color" to the pallet.

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2020, 12:46:15 AM »
So, my hunch is you would still enjoy a P5/P10 Rev4 (or even a P6/OB6) if you chose to add one to your toolbox.  You'll find that they are just harmonically as different from the P12 as night and day... and I think that's why they complement each other in a mix so well.

Well, on my P'12, I managed to reproduce my OB-6 favourite preset, the famous "Broken EP" (which actually relied on the X-mod and not the VCO)
https://soundcloud.com/thedisease/pb6

And one of my favourite patch ever  8)
https://soundcloud.com/thedisease/dusk

Actually, I tried the P6 and the OB-6 and they'd overlap with what I make with my P'12, then I use other machines, mostly Korgs

Re: This synth is underrated
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2021, 01:09:03 AM »
I'm also well aware that I'm late to the party, but yes, my favorite DSI/Sequential synth is prophet12 and PRO2 - the most powerful synth that Dave has ever created as he said when p12 was launched, and still is in my opinion.

Like evolver and its sister models, the prophet12/PRO2 synthesis is digital analog hybrid. Uncle Dave has packed everything he had in his hands to create these models. They literally are full blown modular synths smashed into compact keyboard format. Great sounds too, naturally what you expect from DSI/Sequential.

But then again, what people demanded to him was prophet-5 reissue. Hence, after evolver-series he had to create full analog synths like prophet '08, all the mophos, and tetras. Then again, after prophet12/PRO2 he had to create full analog synths complete with VCO like prophet-6, OB-6, and finally the prophet-5 Rev4. History repeats itself.

Don't get me wrong, I had a prophet-5 Rev3 before, and I loved it so much. It finally broke, and I had to give it to a friend, but it was such an awesome synth that no matter how you tweak it, no matter what the knob positions are, they always sounded great. Indeed, the prophet-5 is a real vintage masterpiece, needless to mention. I also love OB-6, fabulous sounds.

That being said, if I had enough money to buy a p5 Rev4, then I still hunt for finding a prophet12. Or maybe look for different kinds, for instance moog one, Waldorf Quantum, or John Bowen Solaris. I know pretty well what I'll do with a p5 already, but haven't fully explored my own sonic universe with a p12 or other models.

I still love reading the preface of owner's manuals for prophet12 and PRO2. It's filled with message from uncle Dave saying "You gotta keep movin' forward". Yes I fully agree, and I will.

Thanks.
DSI: prophet12, PRO2, evolver keyboard, ensoniq: VFX-SD, Roland: V-Synth, TB-3, Kurzweil: PC361, Arturia: microFreak, KORG 800DV, monotron-series, kaossilator 2, volca nubass, volca modular, SQ-1, MakeNoise 0-Coast, 0-CTRL, lots of iOS/Mac soft-instruments
Roland A-50, KMI QuNexus
Logic Pro X