Prophet 5/10 USB MIDI

StarskyCarr · « **on:** December 09, 2020, 04:34:56 AM »

Is anyone else having issues with MIDI via USB. I'm connecting to a Macbook with USB-C and can receive but not send MIDI (MIDI OUT from the synth not working). Over 5PIN it works fine. Also, when the laptop goes into sleep mode the USB MIDI no longer works at all.

*I've managed to get MIDI OUT working if using another cable - USB B to USB A with an adaptor* so maybe there's a specification on the MIDI cable that I'm missing.

Is anyone able to use a USB-B to USB-C, and if so what cable are you using?

Thanks.

SerErris · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2020, 07:31:06 AM »

Hi Starsky,

I have no direct solution for you, but maybe something to troubleshoot.

1. USB is a serial connection established between two devices (point to point). It does not have directions (e.g. one link to send data and one link to receive data). So if the connection works one way (send for instance) there is no cable thing, that could it make not working in the other direction.

2. You still can try another cable. There are so called "printer" cables available with USB-C to USB-B directly. No Adapter in it.

3. You could also use a USB-B to USB-A cable with an USB-A to USB-C adapter. I am not sure if the USB-B to USB-A Adapter could work or not, but I only have seen it, when you want to create a USB-B to USB-B cable by using USB-B to USB-A Adapter and a USB-A to USB-B standard cable. That is when you want to use for instance a Deluge as a USB-host (which normally has a USB-A port) to use it with an external midi controller keyboard (which has all kinds of USB-slave ports (Micro, Mini, USB-B).

Hope that helps.

fivefathom · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2020, 11:29:39 PM »

Having lots of midi issues, with USB and 5-pin. Using Logic, by chance? I find something about Logic is making the Prophet freeze up and not accept midi in. If you try power cycling the Prophet and unplug and replug the Midi out (or USB) that sometimes solves it. Not perfect, but gives some hints about what might be happening.

Urowho · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2020, 02:29:31 PM »

Quote from: fivefathom on December 12, 2020, 11:29:39 PM

Having lots of midi issues, with USB and 5-pin. Using Logic, by chance? I find something about Logic is making the Prophet freeze up and not accept midi in. If you try power cycling the Prophet and unplug and replug the Midi out (or USB) that sometimes solves it. Not perfect, but gives some hints about what might be happening.

Same here. Often starts off OK and then suddenly the buttons in particular become inoperable. Fixed only by unplugging and sometimes restarting. That’s with logic, single channel, same channel set on P10.

The other thing which is displaying odd behaviour is the portamento. Very inconsistent, nothing until 12 o’clock, doesn’t work on every note played either singly or as chords. I haven’t quite sussed whether this is also a MIDI problem.

araynor08 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2021, 06:26:11 PM »

Quote from: Urowho on December 13, 2020, 02:29:31 PM

Quote from: fivefathom on December 12, 2020, 11:29:39 PM
Having lots of midi issues, with USB and 5-pin. Using Logic, by chance? I find something about Logic is making the Prophet freeze up and not accept midi in. If you try power cycling the Prophet and unplug and replug the Midi out (or USB) that sometimes solves it. Not perfect, but gives some hints about what might be happening.

Same here. Often starts off OK and then suddenly the buttons in particular become inoperable. Fixed only by unplugging and sometimes restarting. That’s with logic, single channel, same channel set on P10.

The other thing which is displaying odd behaviour is the portamento. Very inconsistent, nothing until 12 o’clock, doesn’t work on every note played either singly or as chords. I haven’t quite sussed whether this is also a MIDI problem.

I’m having the same problems using midi controllers. Need to get fixed.

JimDaneker · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2021, 02:59:41 PM »

Same issue here, and on OS 1.5.2 on my Prophet 5. It will just stop sending MIDI over USB after a time. And it's not an issue with Logic - it's the P5 itself, because no app sees MIDI from it after a while. I'm using MIDI Monitor which still sees the P5 connected, but no incoming MIDI. Power cycling the P5 brings it back to life in all apps.

Hopefully there can be a fix for this, as it gets annoying after a while to have to keep power cycling a $3500 synth ;-)

LPF83 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2021, 03:59:24 PM »

Not sure if it helps isolate the issue, but with USB B to USB A cable, Windows and Cubase I don't seem to have issues with the P10 and MIDI or my other synths. All of my Sequential gear using USB at the moment, connected to 2 different hubs then into the PC.

Bavanandan · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2021, 04:15:18 AM »

Frustrating indeed. And ironic, considering Dave Smith’s relationship with MIDI...

LPF83 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2021, 04:54:50 AM »

Quote from: Bavanandan on May 08, 2021, 04:15:18 AM

Frustrating indeed. And ironic, considering Dave Smith’s relationship with MIDI...

From what I can tell it is an issue with USB-C connectivity though? That sounds more like an OS driver issue on the device the synth is being connected to than anything to do with the MIDI spec to me.

Bavanandan · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2021, 12:56:29 AM »

Yes, you’re quite right - I was being too reductive

Vagonbreix · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2021, 05:46:36 AM »

I’m having midi issues with 5pin midi and ableton . Not for the moment with usb midi . It’s annoying all the prophet have more or less same midi problems .

oldgearguy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2022, 02:12:40 AM »

note - I wanted to send this as a PM to cbmd, but that was blocked, so I'm posting publicly.

I'm helping the Conductive Labs guys test out their MRCC MIDI patchbay. Since it handles DIN and TRS MIDI and USB, it's a great modern take on a patchbay.

What they are running into is that USB doesn't always seem so universal. Some gear just does not want to send/receive MIDI via USB through the MRCC. They don't have the funds to buy everything that is reported as incompatible to test in person, so they rely on others and contacts with the manufacturers to help understand where in the protocol is the disconnect.

The Prophet 5/10 is a recent machine that has an issue with USB MIDI and the MRCC. I recently picked up a Prophet 10 desktop (great job on it BTW) and can confirm DIN MIDI works fine and USB MIDI does not.

Can the Conductive Labs guys contact you (or whoever is the best person for USB discussions) directly to share what they see on their end? I am available to beta test changes to either Sequential or Conductive Labs gear, but they have the protocol analyzer and can give the most direct/complete feedback.

LPF83 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2022, 04:40:35 AM »

Quote from: oldgearguy on March 18, 2022, 02:12:40 AM

note - I wanted to send this as a PM to cbmd, but that was blocked, so I'm posting publicly.

I'm helping the Conductive Labs guys test out their MRCC MIDI patchbay. Since it handles DIN and TRS MIDI and USB, it's a great modern take on a patchbay.

What they are running into is that USB doesn't always seem so universal. Some gear just does not want to send/receive MIDI via USB through the MRCC. They don't have the funds to buy everything that is reported as incompatible to test in person, so they rely on others and contacts with the manufacturers to help understand where in the protocol is the disconnect.

The Prophet 5/10 is a recent machine that has an issue with USB MIDI and the MRCC. I recently picked up a Prophet 10 desktop (great job on it BTW) and can confirm DIN MIDI works fine and USB MIDI does not.

Can the Conductive Labs guys contact you (or whoever is the best person for USB discussions) directly to share what they see on their end? I am available to beta test changes to either Sequential or Conductive Labs gear, but they have the protocol analyzer and can give the most direct/complete feedback.

To initiate contact, I'd suggest having Conductive Labs guy send email to the support address at Sequential, since there's no guarantee they will see this message in the forums.

Analog Prophet · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2022, 10:26:18 AM »

Same problem to Allen & Heath SQ Series Mixing Consoles when multitracking. Nowadays they added to the user manual: Note that not all USB 3.0 ports are fully backward compatible with USB 2.0 – for bestresults, it is therefore recommended that a USB 2.0 port is used where available. Whereunavailable, USB 3.0 ports utilising xHCI host controller drivers should be avoided asmany are known not to support the isochronous transfer method used for streamingaudio. I guess it can be a similar hardware problem here (but not streaming audio of course).

h4ndcrafted · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2022, 04:01:24 AM »

Just wanted to add myself to the list, no issues with din.

With Maschine Ihave to plug and re plug the usb cable otherwise knobs seem to act weird.thought it was a midi loop.
I’m using one parameter and another seems to just jump randomly , like suddenly I’ll get max resonance.

brucegill · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2022, 04:34:56 AM »

Pleased to find its not just me lol. USB and Logic has been hell. DIN and Ableton was fine.... Buy the looks of above, it's not Logic, its just USB issues

LPF83 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2022, 04:50:40 AM »

To those having USB issues, are you on Mac or Windows?

brucegill · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2022, 07:07:47 AM »

Quote from: LPF83 on June 23, 2022, 04:50:40 AM

To those having USB issues, are you on Mac or Windows?

Mac here

strytten · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2022, 10:18:48 AM »

How long my are your usb cables? I’ve heard ideal length is no more than 4 ft.

brucegill · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2022, 10:28:59 AM »

Quote from: strytten on June 23, 2022, 10:18:48 AM

How long my are your usb cables? I’ve heard ideal length is no more than 4 ft.

One to my P5 is 1.5m and the one to Matriarch is 4m. Matriarch is solid and no problems at all.

Only thing I can think of trying next is the USB goes to a Arturia interface, then that connects to my Mac. So maybe if I can find a 2m cable I could try direct to the Mac.