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Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3

Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2020, 05:45:06 AM »
Attention all of the same to the frequency 48Khz etc. I had the opportunity to import in another format and the quality was reduced. Very metallic result. That said, in a search for a metallic sound, it can be useful.

I think you will be able to experience it yourself :)

__ Fr
Attention tous de même au à la fréquence 48Khz etc. J'ai eu l'occasion d'importer dans un autre format et la qualité était amoindrie. Résultat très métallique. Ceci dit, dans une recherche de son métallique, ça peut être utile.

Je pense que vous allez pouvoir faire l'expérience vous même :)
Paper & Pencil

Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2020, 06:06:51 AM »

I slip in several Riddim, Dubstep style audio clips. The result is much better!
So file in 48khz, 16 bits, 1024 samples converted to .syx. In the Pro 3: some drive, an LFO, a rotary speaker effect and a little sweep with the LFO.

Result that tears !! ;) 8): o

__FR
Je glisse plusieurs extraits audio de style Riddim, Dubstep. Le résultat est bien meilleur!
Donc fichier en 48khz, 16 bits, 1024 échantillons converti en .syx. Dans le Pro 3: un peu de drive, un LFO, un effet de haut-parleur rotatif et un petit balayage avec le LFO.

Résultat qui arrache !! ;) 8): o
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 06:08:53 AM by lvbeethoven »
Paper & Pencil

Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2020, 08:08:51 AM »

Other wavetable scan take from an imported wavetable.

Works much better.  8) Riddim test !
Paper & Pencil

chysn

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Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2020, 06:19:10 PM »

Other wavetable scan take from an imported wavetable.

Works much better.  8) Riddim test !

Ha! That's a fun wavetable.

Are you feeling better about your Pro 3 now? Mine should be here Tuesday.  :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 06:56:38 PM by chysn »
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Previous: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01, DSM03
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Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2020, 03:10:19 PM »
Yes, it works better. Now, "making good wavetables" remains difficult, at least not easy. Sometimes some are more convincing than others.

That said, the process of creation, conversion, transfer is super heavy.
 :)
Paper & Pencil

Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2020, 07:01:40 PM »
I come back to the post,

It is very difficult to add 48khz 16bits 1024 samples all with good wave cycles.
Serum offers a good possibility, really.

I found a solution to make the addition successful.

By outputting the 16 cycles from Xfer Serum, I obtain 16 files in 2048 samples 44100Hz.

After importing into Audacity and converting to 48Khz, the 16 files make 1882 samples. Problem!

The solution is to export them in 48khz, 1882 16-bit samples and then send them back to Audacity. So when the new 16 cycles import in 1882 samples format ... as if by magic, they end up in 2048 samples !?

Then just convert them to 96Khz to convert them to 1024 samples.
The final export of Audacity in 48khz keeps the number of samples at 1024.

For verification I open the files again in Audacity and now they are in 1024, 48Khz 16 bits.


So once in the Pro 3, the result is much cleaner. Finally!
The method is laborious. I do not understand why so many complications.

I would like to know how Sequential we managed the trick to have 48Khz 16 bits and 1024 samples.

Finally, I'm happy, I'll do another test.

Anyway chysn, if you need a tester for your system, i would gladly volunteer.


I tried this method, and while it did work, the waveforms still do not sound like they did in serum...they seem more dull, with less  upper harmonics. I'm wondering why that is happening still...
Sequential Pro-3, Elektron Analog Heat MK2, Elektron Analog RYTM MK2, Elektron Analog Four MK2, Pioneer Toraiz SP-16, Behringer TD-3, 104hp Modular Synth w/Mutable Instruments modules, 48hp Modular FX box with Intellijel Rainmaker and Audio I/O, Eventide H9 MAX

chysn

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Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2020, 10:07:15 AM »
I tried this method, and while it did work, the waveforms still do not sound like they did in serum...they seem more dull, with less  upper harmonics. I'm wondering why that is happening still...

That's probably natural, since Serum's waveforms are 2048 samples per cycle. With the Pro 3, you've got less information in a single cycle so the upper harmonics, especially, will suffer.

However, if you're okay sharing your original waveforms and your sysex file, I wouldn't mind having a look inside.
Pro 3

Previous: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01, DSM03
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2020, 05:55:30 PM »
Sure I don't mind sharing at all!

The wavetables are from stock Serum, the juno106 wavetable + 5 additional tables I messed with (took the last wave and made 5 copies, then mucked about with them)

Dragged them into audacity (44khz 16bit, 2048) then converted to 96khz (hit the down arrow on the file, then rate => 96khz) then switched project rate to 48khz, and exported.

Checked via dragging them back into audacity, and sure enough, they are 48khz , 16bit, 1024.

Created the sysex file, and exported to the pro3

Let me know what the results are!  :D

*** Update ***
Ok I also just realized, that during my A & B testing of the waves loaded into the pro3, I was testing them against the serum waves which were un-processed...so they hadn't had the morph tables removed (not that there are any in the juno106 wavetable in serum) , nor had I done the "fade edges -> gird size" command. Upon doing this command, I can see it does modify the tables substantially. Upon testing the pro3 against the waves which the fade edges command completed, they do sound quite close. Still slight duller, but much closer.

***2nd Update***

Re-did the wavetables from serum WITHOUT using the fade edges, and they still sound great! and VERY close to the serum wavetables. I'm thinking that the dullness could just be because they are now going through an analog filter? Either way, much happier with the results now. Going to not bother with fading the edges anymore, as it changes the wave too much, and it doesn't seem to be necessary!

I included the sysex for the juno without the faded edges as well (real_Juno) for people to have. Waves 11-16 are just my modified waves of the wave in position 11
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 07:06:19 PM by RAFH »
Sequential Pro-3, Elektron Analog Heat MK2, Elektron Analog RYTM MK2, Elektron Analog Four MK2, Pioneer Toraiz SP-16, Behringer TD-3, 104hp Modular Synth w/Mutable Instruments modules, 48hp Modular FX box with Intellijel Rainmaker and Audio I/O, Eventide H9 MAX

chysn

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Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2020, 09:27:41 PM »
Thanks! Looks like you found the issue!

By the end of the week, I'll have Audacity out of your workflow. You'll be able to upload the WAV file generated by Serum directly to a web app and get back a system exclusive file. I've got a working command-line application, and I just need to throw together a web interface. I just bought Serum myself, and I want as direct a line as possible from Serum to my Pro 3.
Pro 3

Previous: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01, DSM03
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2020, 06:55:54 AM »
Thanks! Looks like you found the issue!

By the end of the week, I'll have Audacity out of your workflow. You'll be able to upload the WAV file generated by Serum directly to a web app and get back a system exclusive file. I've got a working command-line application, and I just need to throw together a web interface. I just bought Serum myself, and I want as direct a line as possible from Serum to my Pro 3.

That will be awesome! Look forward to it. For your web interface, if you've never tried it yet, I recommend trying out React! It's pretty quick for putting together single page web apps!

On another note, I really wish the Pro3 could handle higher resolution SCWs...seems like quite an oversight on the part of Sequential, when these days Serum uses 2048, and Ableton uses 4096, and we are stuck with 1024 in a hardware synth! I hope sequential is listening, and can perhaps update this in the future!
Sequential Pro-3, Elektron Analog Heat MK2, Elektron Analog RYTM MK2, Elektron Analog Four MK2, Pioneer Toraiz SP-16, Behringer TD-3, 104hp Modular Synth w/Mutable Instruments modules, 48hp Modular FX box with Intellijel Rainmaker and Audio I/O, Eventide H9 MAX

chysn

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Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2020, 08:24:48 AM »
For your web interface, if you've never tried it yet, I recommend trying out React! It's pretty quick for putting together single page web apps!

The first version will be a static Bootstrap page that feeds the WAV file, name, and wavetable number to a script that executes the C binaries. Later versions will use Angular, because that's what my staff uses at work, and I've been meaning to learn it anyway. It's been a long, long time since I've done front-end web stuff, and it's all new.
Pro 3

Previous: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01, DSM03
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

chysn

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Re: Wavetable: Software / Hardware - Result in Pro 3
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2020, 08:01:24 AM »
I just bought Serum myself, and I want as direct a line as possible from Serum to my Pro 3.

My original vision for that "direct line" was to use the Web MIDI API to allow system exclusive transfer from WAV2Pro3 to the Pro 3, without needing any extra software. WAV2Pro3 was going to be a librarian in addition to a converter.

Unfortunately, Web MIDI is still immature when it comes to system exclusive. It sends too fast over USB for the Pro 3. The Pro 3 recognizes that a wavetable is coming its way, but can't keep up. And there's no way to slow down the transfer with Web MIDI. The Web MIDI project has an issue report already, but it's from 2016, so the MIDI feature may or may not come to fruition in a timely manner. It's too bad, because it would enable so many cool applications, not just for the Pro 3, but across the industry.

I've given a couple people the URL to the WAV2Pro3 prototype. I'll make it public when the sharing and visualization features are done. Anybody interested in testing? PM me here. The main difference between WAV2Pro3 and Sequential's tool is that WAV2Pro3 takes an entire wavetable in a single file, like the WAV file output of Serum, Vital, and presumably other wavetable plug-ins. This file can contain any number of waveforms, and WAV2Pro3 automatically upsizes or downsizes to 16. No messing around with converting bunches of WAV files.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 08:09:41 AM by chysn »
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Previous: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01, DSM03
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
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