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Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?

Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« on: November 09, 2020, 11:27:03 AM »
Hello,

I am thinking on getting the Prophet-10 but for vintage reasons I would also like to be able to play it with 5 voices to get this "voice cut" when playing chords. Would I be able to play the Prophet-10 like a Prophet-5?

Kind regards

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2020, 12:27:50 PM »
Hello,

I am thinking on getting the Prophet-10 but for vintage reasons I would also like to be able to play it with 5 voices to get this "voice cut" when playing chords. Would I be able to play the Prophet-10 like a Prophet-5?

Kind regards

I am in the same boat, and I've heard many others elsewhere wondering same...last I heard, it was being considered.  I'm probably going to hold off on my purchase for a while until the decision materializes. 
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Shaw

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2020, 12:27:54 PM »
Hello,

I am thinking on getting the Prophet-10 but for vintage reasons I would also like to be able to play it with 5 voices to get this "voice cut" when playing chords. Would I be able to play the Prophet-10 like a Prophet-5?

Kind regards


You could remove the 2nd voice board...
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2020, 12:30:04 PM »
Hello,

I am thinking on getting the Prophet-10 but for vintage reasons I would also like to be able to play it with 5 voices to get this "voice cut" when playing chords. Would I be able to play the Prophet-10 like a Prophet-5?

Kind regards


You could remove the 2nd voice board...

I think ease of toggling back and forth between 5 and 10 (or even better being able to set it to a value in between to imitate voice stealing on 6 and 8 note vintage synths) is probably a key wish list item for a lot of folks.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

ddp

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2020, 11:49:54 PM »
It's not for me.  If you want a new Prophet 5, buy one.  I think more voices is better.  10's all the fingers I have, so it's a good number.  16 and 32 were dreamed up by programmers.
Buchla, Polyend, Minimoog Model D, Moog One, Prophet X, Tempest, formerly Prophet 6 and Rev2.

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2020, 04:04:02 AM »
It's not for me.  If you want a new Prophet 5, buy one.  I think more voices is better.  10's all the fingers I have, so it's a good number.  16 and 32 were dreamed up by programmers.

Sometimes additional voices are good and sometimes they get in the way.. some folks would like to capture the sound of the voice stealing on the P5 for faithful vintage recreations, but also have access to the entire 10 voices on the unit.  To me limiting the voice count seems like a very reasonable feature request for a $4300 synth.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Qwave

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2020, 07:32:50 AM »
... 16 and 32 were dreamed up by programmers.
Play a two bass notes and and a four note chord on the right hand. Then two different bass notes and another four notes on the right. This would need 12 voices if the release is not longer than the tempo you change the chords.

And if you use a sustain pedal (in hold mode), you may even use more voices.

The actual needed voice number depends on playing style and the result you would like to get. If you like chords blend from one to another, you may even need more than 10 voices.

And if you got split and layer function, you might even need more voices easily. So the numbers are not dreamed up by programmers.

I got a Prophet 10 Rev4. And the number of voices is OK most of the times. But I did had some voice stealing happening. But these were in rather extreme situations. Not everyday use.
keep on turning these knobs

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2020, 08:05:17 AM »
... 16 and 32 were dreamed up by programmers.
Play a two bass notes and and a four note chord on the right hand. Then two different bass notes and another four notes on the right. This would need 12 voices if the release is not longer than the tempo you change the chords.

And if you use a sustain pedal (in hold mode), you may even use more voices.

The actual needed voice number depends on playing style and the result you would like to get. If you like chords blend from one to another, you may even need more than 10 voices.

And if you got split and layer function, you might even need more voices easily. So the numbers are not dreamed up by programmers.

I got a Prophet 10 Rev4. And the number of voices is OK most of the times. But I did had some voice stealing happening. But these were in rather extreme situations. Not everyday use.

Another factor is the nature of the sound being used.. a voice count that works with a patch with piano-like properties may have a different requirement than a fat poly pad sound.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2020, 02:37:45 PM »
I admit, with my interest in the Prophet 10, I have ZERO interest in recreating any vintage songs/tracks that used voice stealing to 'good effect'. I'm not a fan of voice stealing in general and can think of only ONE of my own songs where it WAS used to good effect (on an ratty old MS2000 VA with 4 voice poly where it may not have sounded the same with 8.. or 10 voices). In fact I have zero interest in re-creating ANY famous P5 patches/songs/covers...I want a P10 for NEW sounds for my OWN music, and there I do not want poly limits killing things.

However, the case of using something due to limitations and making the best of it (P5 in the past) still applies to P10, it's a different thing with the luxury of NOT having to have voices stolen so obviously and that is more desirable for me by a long shot. Also 6 voices are minimum for me really, the MS2000 and previous JD-XA (4 voices) drove me mad as I'm a 'player'. 6 voice synths have never been a problem even with voice stealing but still not ideal, 5 is a bridge too far imo.

Having sold all my other sequentials (Prophet 6, OB-6 and '08 Rev 2) I'm gonna grab a Prophet 10 to go with my Prologue 16 and have gotten used to having the polyphony there when I need it, esp as someone who plays 4,5 note chords a lot and would like to go from one to the next without an immediate and ugly voice cut off (sure it has its places but few and far between vs the more natural high poly). 10 voices is an ideal number for me, love that they made the 10 and it feels like the 'real' upgrade to this 2020 model/rev 4 is the voice count in a P5 format with reliability. Obviously the 2 filter choices are also a massive bonus. But a 10 voice prophet 5 with extras that looks and feels pretty much the same as the legend is a dream come true for many of us!

Part of me originally wished for a voice cut switch to mimic the legendary P5, but in all honesty, once I was over that novelty i'd prob never use it again and stick to 10 voices which just feels natural, playable and musical.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 02:40:58 PM by SynthHead »
Prophet 10 Rev 4 | Prologue 16

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2020, 09:10:43 AM »
I'm a P10 owner.  I would like the ability to toggle to P5 voice limitation mode.  I'm not sure some of the 10 owners here fully understand what voice stealing actually sounds like.  "In the Air Tonight" is using the limitations of of the P5 to good effect.  There's a D octave pair being held in the left hand and cycling 3-note chords (Dm, C, A#) are being played with the right.  When the right hand chords change, the previous 3-note chord is cut off in favor of the new chord.

You can play this on a P10 and tinker with the amp sustain and releasee to get it close, and it will sound like the song, but the abrupt chordal note cutoff as the new chord hits won't be there.  The transitions will be different.

The list of classic songs with that voice limitation effect is long and is heard on "Everything in it's Right Place" by Radiohead and many others you know well.

If Sequential went as far as including SSM/SSI to CEM capabilities and a vintage knob on the Prophet for historical accuracy, then 5-note mode on the 10 should be an easy decision. 

...Sequential is probably is just pondering a way to make it clear to the user that they are IN that mode so they aren't fielding "broken voice card" support queries constantly. :)



« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 10:16:01 AM by station2station »
Oberheim TVS 1a | Antonus 2600 | Sequential Prophet 10 | DSI Tempest | Roland RD-2000 | Martin 000-28 Modern Deluxe

ddp

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2020, 11:46:08 AM »
I understand what you're saying and it would be a nice extra retro feature.  I hope they consider it if it's possible.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 12:45:58 PM by ddp »
Buchla, Polyend, Minimoog Model D, Moog One, Prophet X, Tempest, formerly Prophet 6 and Rev2.

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2020, 11:51:19 AM »
SEQUENTIAL

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2020, 11:57:16 AM »
Covered in a previous thread: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,4708.0.html

Thanks extempo - as a new owner didn't see the original thread.  Hopefully the input from my post can help to bolster the idea of 5v mode down the line.
Oberheim TVS 1a | Antonus 2600 | Sequential Prophet 10 | DSI Tempest | Roland RD-2000 | Martin 000-28 Modern Deluxe

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2020, 06:40:18 AM »
Covered in a previous thread: https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,4708.0.html

Thanks extempo - as a new owner didn't see the original thread.  Hopefully the input from my post can help to bolster the idea of 5v mode down the line.

I think it's useful to have a thread  on this topic that's not locked, to help gauge the level of customer interest in this feature.  Videos are starting to emerge on topics such as poly glide that are more musically useful when limited to 5 voices, so for Sequential to have a way to gauge interest in this feature I think is as important as other topics (such as vintage knob for P6/OB6 etc) that get discussed here.  Personally still holding off on a purchase until I see where this lands.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 06:42:36 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2020, 09:26:49 AM »
I first ordered the P5 to immediatly switch to a P10 after thinking over. After getting my synth I'm glad to have the 10 voices. Plus I can just pull the voice board if I ever need the 5 voice stealing. But that will probably never happen. ;-)

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2020, 05:33:25 PM »
Hello,

I am thinking on getting the Prophet-10 but for vintage reasons I would also like to be able to play it with 5 voices to get this "voice cut" when playing chords. Would I be able to play the Prophet-10 like a Prophet-5?

Kind regards


You could remove the 2nd voice board...

And then give it to me . :)
Prophet~6|Prophet~10 Rev3|Prophet~10 Rev4|Pro~3 (SE)|OB-6|OB-Xa |Minimoog Model-D (reissue)|Tempest|DMX|LinnDrum|Drumtraks

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2021, 06:08:06 PM »
According to this thread the original P5 and P10 had voice deactivation. 

Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2021, 05:15:26 PM »
According to this thread the original P5 and P10 had voice deactivation.

I can't seem to modify my earlier post, but wanted to post an update.   Confirmed in original manual (see "voice defeat"):

https://yo41t1y5gos9jw8f3lptw0xo-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Prophet-10-Users-Guide-1.2.pdf

Although it wasn't intended for the same use that us P10 owners would like it for (to properly emulate voice stealing on the P5)...  it goes to show that some voice defeat mechanism added would indeed make the Rev 4 true to its pedigree. 

I would be fine if with me if the feature reset to maximum voices on power down, FWIW.   Aside from the useful musical purpose, it would also be useful for troubleshooting purposes.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 05:17:27 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2021, 06:54:19 PM »
Hi everyone, I'm new here.  Just wanted to say hi and add my voice to these requests for a voice defeat option, in whatever way it can be best implemented, for the Prophet 10.

Thank you for your awesome customer support, and this truly amazing inspiring synth!

LPF83

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Re: Prophet-10 Limit number of voices?
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2021, 07:10:31 PM »
Apologies, I posted the wrong link above to the original owners manual citing the source for voice defeat option.  Wish I could modify messages more than a couple of mins after posting.

http://www.synthfool.com/docs/SequentialCircuits/Prophet_Series/Sequential%20Circuits%20Prophet%205%20Owners%20Manual.pdf
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.