Tinnitus from the Rev2?

[OakBloodThree]

Perhaps this is a comment for the "Purist" thread, but my ears have always tolerated analog tones much better than digital ones.  The digital wave shapes tend to have much more complex frequency combinations, including high non-octave partials.  This is true also for drawbar organs.  The two sound sources - digital wave shapes and drawbar combinations - have always bothered my ears much more than analog wave forms and patches.

With respect to digital tones, I don't think it's necessarily a matter of "purism".  Sometimes it's a matter of the quality of the anti-aliasing filter.

Of course the drawbars themselves are not to blame, so I presume you're talking about organs with a tonewheel sound generator.  There's a lot going on there, and they're designed to have inharmonic partials.

[Sacred Synthesis]

My point is that something like a sawtooth wave form has a softer and more harmonious combination of partials.  By contrast, with many somewhat caustic digital tones, it's off to a bad start.  And yes, a wide open filter can contribute to that as well, but there can still be a problem even when the filter is substantially closed.  Those dissonant partials can still be heard. 

As for drawbar organ settings (regardless of sound generation, since many or most drawbar organs are now digital), there are combinations of tones which would instantly give me an ear ache, and I could recognize them as soon as I heard them, before the pain came.  I had to avoid Hammond organs for years - whether in small churches or in my own music room - even though I quite liked them.  Interestingly, pipe organs have never caused the same problem, even though they're fairly loud, especially when the shrill "mixture" stop is used.  So, this has especially to do with electronic tones and the types of electronic tones used especially in digital synthesis.

I have no concerns with patches from the Prophet '08.  Of course, I could deliberately design sounds using multiple oscillators and additive synthesis that would cause the same pain, but I naturally don't do that.  But when it comes to the Poly Evolver's digital oscillators, I have to be careful to keep the volume especially low, or else. 

I'm just commenting on the facts of experience.  This has been a serious health issue over the years, and I many times feared having to give up music altogether.  That's why I've carefully analyzed the problem.  And it appears others have had similar problems.  I'm not making a pro-analog/anti-digital argument.  After all, I'm an overt Evolver enthusiast who is constantly working in digital synthesis. But I have to be careful even with my own Evolver YouTube recordings, which I would never listen to while wearing head phones.  By contrast, I don't need to be careful with the P'08 recordings.

[maxter]

I have mostly been using headphones when playing at home for the last 10 years or so... and even though my tinnitus has been very minor, it started acting up more a few years ago. I never understood just why, as I’ve been careful to protect my hearing in loud surroundings, but I now seriously suspect using high-end headphones directly plugged into the Rev2 was a major contributor... So in retrospect I’m quite glad to barely have touched it in about 2 years or so, as it probably would have gotten a lot worse. I had started to become a bit more careful with the Rev2 because I noticed it got worse after playing it, but I thought it had just strained or exhausted my ears with the high frequencies. But I’m beginning to think it possibly made some very minor long-term damage as well, because it’s remained worse than before ever since.

Regarding digital vs analog, I never had any similar symptoms from playing the JD-800 from what I recall. It’s quite a soft or ”dull” synth in some ways, which may be why the BLIP BLOP type synth folks don’t seem to think much of it. I think the DAC’s only reach up to around 30khz, and the digital filters are very gentle. As it excels as a pad machine, I’ve mainly used its softer waveforms, or ROM-samples. But I think even when doing harsher sounds, it’s still quite gentle to my ears.

Anyway I decided to finally get a proper set of monitors (instead of a dedicated headphone amp) and try to stay away from headphones as much as possible from now on. And to plug into my audio interface instead of the Rev2 on those rare occassions.

I really appreciate this thread and everyones input.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Tinnitus and ear aches are obviously two different conditions with different causes.  But I would say there is some overlap.  Loud noise of any type is damaging to one's hearing.  We've all seen the effects that piercing high pitches can have on glass.  Now imagine that glass is your delicate ear drum membrane.  And it would seem as if loud repetitive percussive sounds would also be dangerous.  Hence, the synthesizer, together with the emphatic rhythmic elements in much electronic music, probably make a killer combination. 

[OakBloodThree]

With respect to digital tones, I don't think it's necessarily a matter of "purism".  Sometimes it's a matter of the quality of the anti-aliasing filter.

Correction: I should have said "reconstruction filter", which comes after a DAC.  (The anti-aliasing filter is before an ADC).

In any case, I wasn't talking about any of the filters (analog or digital) used in the synthesis itself.

[LPF83]

I have mostly been using headphones when playing at home for the last 10 years or so... and even though my tinnitus has been very minor, it started acting up more a few years ago. I never understood just why, as I’ve been careful to protect my hearing in loud surroundings, but I now seriously suspect using high-end headphones directly plugged into the Rev2 was a major contributor... So in retrospect I’m quite glad to barely have touched it in about 2 years or so, as it probably would have gotten a lot worse. I had started to become a bit more careful with the Rev2 because I noticed it got worse after playing it, but I thought it had just strained or exhausted my ears with the high frequencies. But I’m beginning to think it possibly made some very minor long-term damage as well, because it’s remained worse than before ever since.

Regarding digital vs analog, I never had any similar symptoms from playing the JD-800 from what I recall. It’s quite a soft or ”dull” synth in some ways, which may be why the BLIP BLOP type synth folks don’t seem to think much of it. I think the DAC’s only reach up to around 30khz, and the digital filters are very gentle. As it excels as a pad machine, I’ve mainly used its softer waveforms, or ROM-samples. But I think even when doing harsher sounds, it’s still quite gentle to my ears.

Anyway I decided to finally get a proper set of monitors (instead of a dedicated headphone amp) and try to stay away from headphones as much as possible from now on. And to plug into my audio interface instead of the Rev2 on those rare occassions.

I really appreciate this thread and everyones input.

Supposedly, tinnitus can get worse with age.  Even though I already have some hearing loss I've had since young, I don't think I've ever actually experienced tinnitus.

What's surprising to me, though, is if headphones are a major contributor to hearing loss, we haven't seen a hearing loss epidemic via the rise of portable music players and smartphones.. not to mention increased computer/headphone use general (loud video games, etc.).    I mean we had the Sony Walkman back in the 80s, and I've had some form of portable music involving headphones most of the time since then...  listening to high energy music has always been my go to strategy for "diverting attention from pain" during workouts.  Yet I don't think my hearing has gotten any worse.

For a while I was effectively self-employed and funding my own disability insurance.  The underwriters wanted to add a hearing-loss exclusion to the policy, and I said no and they agreed on the condition I got a comprehensive hearing test.  I did, and while results didn't indicate perfect hearing by any means, they weren't bad either, and no worse than when I was a kid.

[maxter]

I frequently use a portable mp3 player with cheap earbuds when I'm working, working out and such (more or less always have for 20+ years, but I have barely noticed any direct effect on the tinnitus from it. I used to listen at louder volumes sometimes too. So I agree, with no real epidemic to be seen. But I suspect the particular combination of a synth able to output hot levels in the top registers, together with reference headphones particularly aimed to reflect the top end of the spectrum, could be a different story. I've tried to locate other contributors and causes (as I thought it seemed a bit silly at first), but the input by others in this thread has made me more suspicious. However I should add, the last couple of years have been tough mentally (and I also considered the aging factor), which made me brush off the crazy idea of synth+headphones as a cause. So I definitely suspect a combination, but I should have been more cautious upon the worsening of symptoms after having just played the Rev2. It just seemed silly, after all I didn't play it "that" loud.

[Sacred Synthesis]

But I suspect the particular combination of a synth able to output hot levels in the top registers, together with reference headphones particularly aimed to reflect the top end of the spectrum, could be a different story.

There's nothing healthier for the ears than a nice cheap pair of head phones with a limited frequency range!  $19.99 should be just about right.

[ryankm]

The tinnitus is just a teething problem you are having not use to freq.'s.   This is the price of being a musician and having nice equipment  You'll get this with every instrument out there using headphones.  Best bet is to start recording all the sounds you  want to hear and then play them back or dial back on the high freq's a bit with a mixer.  But my ears always heart regardless when doing recording sessions.  That way when you record it will get a higher quality because you always lose in recording unless you have like 2" tape and million dollar studio. 

In a way the pain is why it sounds good!