The End of the Moog Voyager

[dslsynth]

but the thing I cannot find is the large yet relatively simple synthesizer with strong fundamentals, including multiple VCOs, multiple LFOs, complete envelopes, a full-sized keyboard, and so on.

Do you want such a machine as a mono or would you like to have it as a poly? If so, how many voices? Could you accept to use modules and then buy full sizes keyboard controllers to connect them with?

Strong fundamentals and multiple oscillators sounds really tasty to my ears! Small voice count module, please!

Interesting that Moog now goes full vintage with a MODEL D reissue. Wonder how it would sound compared to the original version issued back in the day? I have not forgotten the comment by snowcrash about vintage instrument having dark noise on their pitch CV. Could be fun to try that concept in a modern voice architecture with audio rate CV calculations.

[Sacred Synthesis]

A monophonic synthesizer.  DSI has me happily covered in the polyphonic department.  Between the three larger instruments - the Poly Evolver, Prophet '08, and perhaps one day the Prophet 12 -  I'm all set.

[Razmo]

Yeah, it's called "to reface."

Did you mean "refarce"?

Actualy some live users prefer the small keys, especialy in today's live electronic dance music scene, where they have myriads of small desktop units that they tweak away on... I can see the point of having small keyboards in that situation.

Personaly I'm not into small keys... not that I've got big fingers, but I prefer full-sized keys... but with that said, I'm very much interrested in the new Yamaha Reface DX... mainly because it's a modern FM synth without the noise and aliasing of the old ones, plus it has built in effects so that you can tailor FX to a preset... on top, it has some unique features that no other FM synth has... it has feedback on all four operators which is a great plus.

I might actualy get one, even if it has keys, simply because it is so small it will not clutter up my workspace that much... though I wish they had made tham with add-on keys like the new Roland Boutique synths.

Other than that, I'm still waiting for DSI's next module or rack synth... and also I'm waiting for a Sub37 rack... hope it'll be reality some day.

[Paul Dither]

Actualy some live users prefer the small keys, especialy in today's live electronic dance music scene, where they have myriads of small desktop units that they tweak away on... I can see the point of having small keyboards in that situation.

Personaly I'm not into small keys... not that I've got big fingers, but I prefer full-sized keys... but with that said, I'm very much interrested in the new Yamaha Reface DX... mainly because it's a modern FM synth without the noise and aliasing of the old ones, plus it has built in effects so that you can tailor FX to a preset... on top, it has some unique features that no other FM synth has... it has feedback on all four operators which is a great plus.

I might actualy get one, even if it has keys, simply because it is so small it will not clutter up my workspace that much... though I wish they had made tham with add-on keys like the new Roland Boutique synths.

Other than that, I'm still waiting for DSI's next module or rack synth... and also I'm waiting for a Sub37 rack... hope it'll be reality some day.

I think nobody's questioning the use of portable controllers - at least not me. And there are plenty of those out there that all make sense to me: be it something like the QuNexus, the Korg Nano series, the Push, or the Beat Step. That's all fine. In my view, the Reface series is just incredibly overpriced for what it is. Yes, they are well-built and sound good. But I would find them more useful as modules, esp. the CP and YC ones. But maybe it's just me not being able to imagine how it should feel any good to play organ or piano on these ones. For me, that goes hand in hand with a proper key experience.
Above that, I don't get the preset and polyphony limitation and find the iOS solution for saving presets rather ridiculous.

I'm with you in that I find the DX the most interesting synthesis-wise. But again, the expression via the keyboard is rather limited without aftertouch and those displayed sliders make the adjustment of values feel rather clumsy. Personally, I would at least wait until the next NAMM to see whether this series was just a prelude to what I would call more professional and/or exciting instruments that are preferably full-sized. Otherwise, I see no reason why I shouldn't get a FM4 for $6.99 instead that can be operated on an even more portable iPad. (Or use Dexed or FM8 on a laptop in conjunction with a portable controller that's capable of velocity and aftertouch.)

[Razmo]

Actualy some live users prefer the small keys, especialy in today's live electronic dance music scene, where they have myriads of small desktop units that they tweak away on... I can see the point of having small keyboards in that situation.

Personaly I'm not into small keys... not that I've got big fingers, but I prefer full-sized keys... but with that said, I'm very much interrested in the new Yamaha Reface DX... mainly because it's a modern FM synth without the noise and aliasing of the old ones, plus it has built in effects so that you can tailor FX to a preset... on top, it has some unique features that no other FM synth has... it has feedback on all four operators which is a great plus.

I might actualy get one, even if it has keys, simply because it is so small it will not clutter up my workspace that much... though I wish they had made tham with add-on keys like the new Roland Boutique synths.

Other than that, I'm still waiting for DSI's next module or rack synth... and also I'm waiting for a Sub37 rack... hope it'll be reality some day.

I think nobody's questioning the use of portable controllers - at least not me. And there are plenty of those out there that all make sense to me: be it something like the QuNexus, the Korg Nano series, the Push, or the Beat Step. That's all fine. In my view, the Reface series is just incredibly overpriced for what it is. Yes, they are well-built and sound good. But I would find them more useful as modules, esp. the CP and YC ones. But maybe it's just me not being able to imagine how it should feel any good to play organ or piano on these ones. For me, that goes hand in hand with a proper key experience.
Above that, I don't get the preset and polyphony limitation and find the iOS solution for saving presets rather ridiculous.

I'm with you in that I find the DX the most interesting synthesis-wise. But again, the expression via the keyboard is rather limited without aftertouch and those displayed sliders make the adjustment of values feel rather clumsy. Personally, I would at least wait until the next NAMM to see whether this series was just a prelude to what I would call more professional and/or exciting instruments that are preferably full-sized. Otherwise, I see no reason why I shouldn't get a FM4 for $6.99 instead that can be operated on an even more portable iPad.

I agree that the Refaces are not for everyone.... I'd have liked them in module versions too, but all the other issues you mention is not an issue for me... The editing will be done in SoundDiver, as I'll be creating an editor for it (I allready checked the specs... it's doable), so I don't need to touch the synth at all to use it... the bigger keys I have on my master controller keyboard, so the minikeys is not a problem with me either... I don't find the price too high either really... they are not more expensive than other minisynths available like Mininova, MicroKorg XL or even the new Roland Boutiques... and it's just as capable and pro sounding as those in my opinion... and the patch storage... yes it's crippled, but as I'll be using an editor with librarian funcions for it, that's not an issue either.

So I guess it all boils down to how you are to use the synth... I know my usage is probably a bit "apparte", as I'm a 100% studio-rat... and I can certainly see that as the Refaces are meant for live use, the patch storage is crap... but then again... many of these live musicians have an iPad as well...

...but as allways... you cannot please everyone... and still, I'm with you on the minikeys... I find that they have become just a tiny bit too common these days.... but who knows... maybe they were made for aliens with thin fingers 

[Paul Dither]

I agree that the Refaces are not for everyone.... I'd have liked them in module versions too, but all the other issues you mention is not an issue for me... The editing will be done in SoundDiver, as I'll be creating an editor for it (I allready checked the specs... it's doable), so I don't need to touch the synth at all to use it... the bigger keys I have on my master controller keyboard, so the minikeys is not a problem with me either... I don't find the price too high either really... they are not more expensive than other minisynths available like Mininova, MicroKorg XL or even the new Roland Boutiques... and it's just as capable and pro sounding as those in my opinion... and the patch storage... yes it's crippled, but as I'll be using an editor with librarian funcions for it, that's not an issue either.

So I guess it all boils down to how you are to use the synth... I know my usage is probably a bit "apparte", as I'm a 100% studio-rat... and I can certainly see that as the Refaces are meant for live use, the patch storage is crap... but then again... many of these live musicians have an iPad as well...

...but as allways... you cannot please everyone... and still, I'm with you on the minikeys... I find that they have become just a tiny bit too common these days.... but who knows... maybe they were made for aliens with thin fingers 

Your potential use of a DX, i.e. how you would embed it in your studio and program it via MIDI, is what I would call a rather sophisticated use - in a way even a bit alienated from the original intention if the marketing campaign is anything to go by. And yes, that way makes sense to me. But if I take a look at the Reface series as standalone instruments, I'm quite disappointed. The only thing I find more positive about the Roland Boutiques is that they leave it up to you to use them with a mini-keyboard or not. They're still ultra tiny though. So unless Yamaha and Roland don't convince health insurances to cover shrinking procedures, I will wait for a full-sized UFO to come. 

[dslsynth]

A monophonic synthesizer.  I do think DSI has me happily covered in the polyphonic department.

Makes sense to go for a modular setup then! However I look forward to see you use a future discrete electronics machine from DSI or another manufacturer with strong fundamentals and advanced modulations. That may very well change your look at your other instruments given their potential for more immense sound!

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'll be very interested to see where both DSI/Sequential and Moog take us this winter NAMM.  I'm hoping for some strong analog instruments.  They idea of another Sequential product is tantalizing, since we just don't know in what direction this new line will go - large or small instruments, keyboards or modules?

[dslsynth]

Not to worry! There will be more than one can afford! So lets hope that at least some of them got mini keys!

[Sacred Synthesis]

So lets hope that at least some of them got mini keys!

What?!  Why, you little....

[dslsynth]

I am just trying to take care of your finances (and fiancés)... ;-)

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'm hoping there will soon be something NAMM-ish to post here.

[Paul Dither]

Looks like Arturia filled that void.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Ouch!

[Paul Dither]

Ouch!

Why?

[Sacred Synthesis]

Arturia seems to have borrowed generously from the classic Minimoog frame, and even improved on it by extending the keyboard.  Meanwhile, the Voyager is passing away.  Of course, all of this could change if Moog comes out with, say, a re-issued Model D.

[Paul Dither]

Arturia seems to have borrowed generously from the classic Minimoog frame, and even improved on it by extending the keyboard.  Meanwhile, the Voyager is passing away.  Of course, all of this could change if Moog comes out with, say, a re-issued Model D.

Moog need to do a little more than that, especially since the Sub 37 is out. Feature-wise, the Model D isn't worth more than $500 these days.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'm just saying - regarding the general shape.  I'm still interested to see what Moog has to offer, besides the Mother-32.

[Paul Dither]

Maybe not this NAMM. I've heard that they have a hard time keeping up with the demand for the Mother-32s. They also produced far far more Sub 37s than they planned - I think the latter is about to hit the 10,000 mark soon.

[LoboLives]

I have a Sub 37 and absolutely love it and am looking at getting 3 Mother 32s and chaining them together for sequencing. I like recording in real time and the idea of not having to overdub different sounds is a big plus for me. Especially since I can connect a Midi Keyboard up to it and play it/create sequences easier/transpose on the fly easier.

Moog has always been hit or miss with me. The sound is incredible but I always look for the bang for the buck. I look at a lot of the Moog synths and I've tried them out and I look at the price tag and see what it actually does. Some of them are more than a Prophet 12 and their monophonic with barley any features. I went with the Sub 37 because the sound is there, it's duophonic and has a plethora of useful features. I just think it's mind boggling someone would pay $3-4k for a monophonic synth and in some cases like the Old School, have no features when there's more gear out there with more synthesis and cheaper.

If anything I think Moog should look into giving people the option in constructing their own modular. Sell individual sequencers, white noise generators etc. I've been looking into investing in a Synthesizers.com modular as the Moog modular systems are way out of most people's price range perhaps this might be a good option for Moog.