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Analog / Digital Purists?

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2020, 07:16:14 PM »
I'm definitely not interested in the freaky or weird, Ant, but I'm glad to hear that one more person thinks the Prologue can be beautiful.  It will remain an instrument I'm moderately interested in.  It has a simplicity that fascinates and impresses me.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 08:27:19 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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chysn

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2020, 07:49:59 PM »
I can easily suggest that discovering the world of downloadable User oscs on the Prologue has given that synth a whole new life in my world. It's a gorgeous analog synth - it can do freaky and weird, but it can also do utterly beautiful.

Prologue pushes a lot of my buttons, and I've given it a pretty long look. I think that the Evolver primed me for hybrid synths. Even though I've settled on a Pro 3, it would have been fun to take the Prologue's Multi Engine SDK for a spin. I guess I could get a standard Pro 3 and a Minilogue XD, but I really need to focus.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

megamarkd

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2020, 12:03:28 AM »
I can easily suggest that discovering the world of downloadable User oscs on the Prologue has given that synth a whole new life in my world. It's a gorgeous analog synth - it can do freaky and weird, but it can also do utterly beautiful.

Prologue pushes a lot of my buttons, and I've given it a pretty long look. I think that the Evolver primed me for hybrid synths. Even though I've settled on a Pro 3, it would have been fun to take the Prologue's Multi Engine SDK for a spin. I guess I could get a standard Pro 3 and a Minilogue XD, but I really need to focus.

I think as much as the Korg Pro/Minilogues can offer polyphony, the modulation options available on the Pro-3 far outweigh the extra voices if you are a patch programming fiend.  You can grab an NTS-1 and have most of the Multi Engine that is in the XD and Prologue then run it into the Audio-In on the Pro-1 (or any other synth setup which allows Ext-In ;) )

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2020, 06:55:54 AM »
I can easily suggest that discovering the world of downloadable User oscs on the Prologue has given that synth a whole new life in my world. It's a gorgeous analog synth - it can do freaky and weird, but it can also do utterly beautiful.

Prologue pushes a lot of my buttons, and I've given it a pretty long look. I think that the Evolver primed me for hybrid synths. Even though I've settled on a Pro 3, it would have been fun to take the Prologue's Multi Engine SDK for a spin. I guess I could get a standard Pro 3 and a Minilogue XD, but I really need to focus.

Why not combine a Pro 3 Keyboard and later a Minilogue XD Module?  That would create a fairly compact instrument with a massive sonic range.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 07:05:06 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

chysn

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2020, 10:24:56 AM »
Why not combine a Pro 3 Keyboard and later a Minilogue XD Module?  That would create a fairly compact instrument with a massive sonic range.

You can grab an NTS-1 and have most of the Multi Engine that is in the XD and Prologue then run it into the Audio-In on the Pro-1 (or any other synth setup which allows Ext-In ;) )

I wouldn't rule out either of those options, but I suspect that the Pro 3 is just going to lead to more Eurorack.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Shaw

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2020, 03:24:11 PM »
I had originally started this little thread so I could off-load some of my thought process on you guys.   I had been considering a couple of things: 1) paring down my synths (for space reasons 3 is an optimal number for me), and 2) whether I wanted to go all analog.


As for the first issue, I have pretty much decided to pare down my synth collection to just 3.  Any more than that, and I just end up having synths sitting in a storage closet that don’t get played.


I have ditched the all analog idea.  Even though I generally love and prefer my analogs, I would surely miss not having a digital synth around for those timbres.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2020, 03:37:49 PM »
I feel,the same way, Shaw.  Three seems to be the magical instrument number.  And for the analog-digital breakdown, one hybrid is enough digital for me, beside two analogs.

The great challenge in designing and maintaining the right set up comes from the lure towards getting the new exciting equipment.  My tongue hangs out with each new instrument; but that's just idiocy, because all the new instruments are not what I need.  So, I think it's prudent to apply the breaks most of the time.  We have to discern between what we crave as it's dangled before us in all its glittering glory, versus what we know in our calm intellects will serve our regular needs. 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:18:01 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Shaw

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2020, 04:11:01 PM »
I feel,the same way, Shaw.  Three seems to be the magical instrument number.  And for the analog-digital breakdown, one hybrid is enough digital, beside two analogs.

The great challenge in designing and maintaining the right set up is in the lure towards getting the new exciting equipment.  My tongue hangs out at all the new instruments; but that's just idiocy, because all the new instruments are not what I need.  So, I think it's prudent to apply the breaks most of the time.  We have to discern between what we crave as it's dangled before us in all its glittering glory, versus what we know in our calm intellects will serve our regular needs.


"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2020, 04:18:48 PM »
Amen, brother!
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2020, 04:53:35 PM »
For me it was about emulating the Carpenter/Howarth setup with modern gear. More recently though I’ve been slightly shying away from that idea as I’ve been listening to more and more soundtracks and experienced more tonal variety that inspires me but I think if I stick to my original plan I should be more than satisfied.

Some would say emulating the Carpenter/Howarth setup is gluttony and stupid but I figure the setup is absolutely perfect and while I can’t get exactly the same setup with modern gear, I wouldn’t need anything else once the setup is completed.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Tempest Drum Computer, ISLA S2400 Drum Sampler, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2020, 06:51:49 PM »
Count me in the three synths is the magic number camp.  I figure my Kronos, an analogue or digital polysynth, and a monosynth would suit me well.  Thankfully I haven't fallen into the modular hole though at times I am very close to the edge.

Shaw

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2020, 08:26:04 PM »
I’ve decided on my 3 (do I really need to say “for now, at least”?  We all know we are addicted, and we all know that prevailing winds can change)... and it is cheating a bit for me to say “three”...

  • Moog One — this thing is a beast, and “greater than the sum of its parts” definitely applies here.  And it has a large number of parts.  It is essentially a 16v analogue with a mod matrix that approaches the Kurzweil VAST architecture.  The mod matrix (with the latest firmware) allows for functions!
  • Prophet X - It’s just intensely capable.  And I feel as if I have only just scratched the surface.
  • The Prophet 5 — this is where I am cheating with the word “3” because I really intend to get both the Keyboard (which I have ordered) and the module (“_______”) to create a bitimbral / stereo P5.  Yes, I know that’s “overkill”, but if I’m limiting myself to 3 synths...

Anyway, this thread, though we rambled, and griped, and got out of tune as we are wont to do, played a good part in that decision making — thank you all for your contributions.

Will let you know when my P5 arrives.  My SW guy tells me, based on my place in the SW line, I am looking at mid-November.  Fine by me.  No rush. Please make mine with care.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2020, 09:53:50 AM »
That's an impressive threesome - restrained but musically powerful.  Excellent choices, Shaw.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Shaw

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2020, 10:40:35 AM »
That's an impressive threesome - restrained but musically powerful.  Excellent choices, Shaw.


:)


Hopefully I can stop “trading synths” (as my wife calls it) and start making music.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2020, 12:00:07 PM »
I'm definitely not interested in the freaky or weird, Ant, but I'm glad to hear that one more person thinks the Prologue can be beautiful.  It will remain an instrument I'm moderately interested in.  It has a simplicity that fascinates and impresses me.

They sound really good, I was at a gig before the zombie acopolypse took over and was listening to this amazing sounding synth so I went up to the keyboard player at the end and asked what it was and it was a prologue.

jok3r

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2020, 10:15:00 PM »
It is essentially a 16v analogue with a mod matrix that approaches the Kurzweil VAST architecture.  The mod matrix (with the latest firmware) allows for functions!

Could you explain that statement a little bit more? Are the functions all that goes into VAST directions, or is there more to it?
Unfortunately I don't have a Moog One and played it only three or four times at Thomanns before it was removed from their showing room. And there never was time to dive in deeply...
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES,  Akai MPK 261

Shaw

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2020, 10:10:35 AM »
It is essentially a 16v analogue with a mod matrix that approaches the Kurzweil VAST architecture.  The mod matrix (with the latest firmware) allows for functions!

Could you explain that statement a little bit more? Are the functions all that goes into VAST directions, or is there more to it?
Unfortunately I don't have a Moog One and played it only three or four times at Thomanns before it was removed from their showing room. And there never was time to dive in deeply...


I'll try to answer that.   First, what I liked about Kurzweil's VAST was 2 things:  1) almost anything could modulate anything else, and 2) because of the functions, the complex modulations could be achieved (using various functions a+b, a-b, a/b, (a+b)/2, (a/2)+b... where a and b could be anything from a long list of modulation sources).   This offered some very nice modulation capabilities that ranged from subtle to wild.

As for the Moog One... It's very capable in terms of modulation.  The modulation section of the manual alone is 11 pages. And I'm not sure what the limit on modulation slots is (I've never run out, though I think someone said 40, but again, not sure)... and modulation setups can be independently saved and recalled in new presets.

Every slot has a source and destination (of course), but add to that a "controller" and a "transform". So you could have an LFO (Source) modulate filter cutoff (destination) with an amount scaled by velocity (controller) and then square that result (transform) to create an almost parabolic effect.

Originally the Moog One's mod source / controller / destination list looked like this:













But the newest improvements came with Version 1.3 which added some Function to the transform list as well as new source and destinations... and if you just read the manual, you would miss it because the cool stuff in Version 1.3 was detailed in release notes but the manual wasn't changed.

Here's the relevant portions of the release notes:













VAR 1 - 10 allows for some powerful capabilities.  For example, have a complex modulation row modulate (with complexity) another modulation row.... up to 10.
Or create a modulation setup where you have the same Source / Controller / Transform sent to a Var, and then that Var is used as the source in several rows (so you don't have to repeat the source / controller / transform work on each row) AND have that VAR modulate each successive row by different controller / transform amounts....

And the list of transforms and functions very much reminds my of what the K2xxx was capable of.  It's different, but it reminds me of the depth that was available in the Kurzweil.  Just reading through that list gives me tons of ideas.  And other parts leave me scratching my head wondering what the hell I would do with that.

And keep in mind, a lot of that modulation capability in the Kurzweil was often (by me at least) put to use to make the machine sound more analog / organic.  With the Moog One, you have this capability in an analog machine

... and this is why I am unlikely to ever part with the Moog One.  It's near mathematically impossible for me to explore all of it's possibilities.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

jok3r

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2020, 11:12:15 AM »
I know the VAST Architecture from my PC361. I think it is pretty much the same as in the Kxxxx Series. And yeah... it's absolutely powerful. But programming it on the synth screen is hell...

What you say about the Moog One update sounds pretty good to me. What I find most interesting are the VAR1-10 controllers in combination with the functions. If I get this right, this should allow functions of functions of functions, etc. ... I like the idea that I could express nearly any mathematical function this way and apply that to a synth parameter. You could build the mother of all envelopes this way. That would be the point in my life where all the Analysis lessons in school and at university would pay off ;D

Unfortunately I will never own a Moog One... at least not if I want my wife to stay with me until we're old ;-)
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES,  Akai MPK 261

Shaw

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Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2020, 11:47:55 AM »
What I find most interesting are the VAR1-10 controllers in combination with the functions. If I get this right, this should allow functions of functions of functions, etc. ...
Exactly.  The VAR 1-10 can be both sources and destinations.  So imagine them as "re-usable modulation / function boxes" that can both send and receive information.


Unfortunately I will never own a Moog One... at least not if I want my wife to stay with me until we're old ;-)

That's a choice only you can make...

Years ago, I played in a bar band in Asia... and the bar owner used to tell the singer of one of the other bands... "boy, life is about choices... and you gotta chose:  Do you wanna be Elvis or Aunt Jamima?" (the singer was a white dude who always wanted to wear a dew rag while singing).
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Analog / Digital Purists?
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2020, 03:23:58 PM »
Also it's one of the few times I went "Why didn't you just use VCOs?" simply because it doesn't feel like George took these FPGA oscillators to their full capabilities compared to something like the Summit. In fact I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would by a Super 6 over a Summit.

Perhaps because nontraditional waveforms are where this synth really shines. To my ears (at least from online examples), the Super 6 is the most characterful hybrid synth to hit the market in ages. However, I don't like how limited it is, especially in the small amount of waveforms it can store. The oddest thing of all is that the second oscillator can't do anything beyond the traditional waveforms... If Udo decides to release a more deluxe version, then I'll certainly consider it. I wasn't that impressed with the 2144 in the PX (that the S6 also uses), but as I said, the PPG Wave and Emulator are still the best sounding in their field imo, so there's obviously more to it than simply using the 2044 chip (or one based off it).