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Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6

Re: Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2021, 02:29:19 AM »
So, if I've got it straight, the Vintage Knob is engaged when you hit Bank and Global, go to 4 and click Yes. Could anyone point me to a preset in the original presets where I could really appreciate the difference. I think I've got cloth ears as I'm not hearing much of a difference. I know I do have cloth ears, which is why I ask. Is there a preset for the cloth-eared amongst us (i.e. me) to really hear what the vintage knob is doing. Thanks. :)

Re: Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2021, 05:31:51 AM »
Don't worry. I think I've trained my ear up. You can actually go between Vintage and Slop without having to leave Global so it becomes easier to swtich between the two and hear the difference. It is especially noticeable to me on unison patches and also when the arpeggio is running as I hear the variations in the filter envelope. The detune is also more subtle than SLOP. It's a really nice update actually. I loved my P6 before, but this update gives it a more 'lived in' vibe. Thank you DSI.

blewis

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Re: Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2021, 08:17:37 AM »
Try playing the built in sequences for factory patches 500-999.

As the sequence plays, crank the Vintage setting. Itís more obvious on some than others, but letting the synth play patterns for you will help you focus on what the Vintage setting is doing.


Re: Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2021, 01:10:14 PM »
Try playing the built in sequences for factory patches 500-999.

As the sequence plays, crank the Vintage setting. Itís more obvious on some than others, but letting the synth play patterns for you will help you focus on what the Vintage setting is doing.

That was a good tip. Thanks. I've played through a bunch of the presets (500-582) adding the vintage knob to see what it does. As you say, subtle with some, more obvious with others. But for all of them, I can't imagine the P6 without the vintage knob now, and it's only been a day. It's like it was always supposed to have this option. Odd, I think - ironic even - that what must be software has been used to make an analog synth sound more 'vintage'.

Re: Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2021, 02:38:55 AM »



The poly mod section has a wider range on the P6 than the P5. In fact, everything does on the P6.

My direct experience is my pro one goes deeper (I will compare again though), and I recall the prophet 3.3 going deeper as well. I was told that prophet 6 is deeper on another thread, but I don't think so. Perhaps I'm wrong about depth or it is other factors or perhaps prophet 6 just sounds tamer, but it definitely sounds a bit tame in comparison. Around 31 minutes in this video he gets into poly-mod and offers a good demonstration of what I'm referring to with poly-mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkF5aI3t7hY&t=2672s
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In this video I simply put the same settings on both synths... 2 sawtooths tuned the same (so tuning is not the issue) I think then add poly mod with OSC2 as the source.  The P5 definitely, absolutely and undeniably has more depth.  I don't know where the quote about having a wider range comes from, but it simply doesn't have anywhere near the same depth of modulation.  Turning mod negative, which I do in the video as well, doesn't increase the mod as someone suggested.  Having both in front of me I can absolutely confirm there's not as much mod depth on the P6. Perhaps the 'range' in the quote isn't referring to the modulation depth, but to the range of parameters modulated?? Even the P5 has a much wider range of osc2 with KYB disengaged going all the way to C9. Perhaps 'range' refers to the P6 OSC2 range going to C5 and the P5 to C4 with KYB engaged?  Whatever it means, it can't refer to the depth of modulation.

Just thought I'd clear that up... I made the video clearly showing what I'm doing with both synths in front of me and it's obvious to anyone listening that there's more depth on the P5. ... which is why I make them ... to clear up confusion and help anyone without access to both to hear demonstrations of their functions side by side.  Hope that helps.

Re: Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2021, 08:17:08 AM »

Added: Changed my mind on the pitch request - seems very patch specific and often its just fine as it is.
  Lol - well seem I changed my mind again after more testing.  Seems the pitch variation does get out of control after 50%.   In addition it would be cool if the Vintage knob would add a little bit of random to the distortion only if its turned up past 0.

I agree with you, overall. I really like how the vintage mode works - but it is far more subtle when it comes to pitch than slop. That means that any patch that was programmed with slop - especially subtle slop - suddenly has practically none.

To my ears, the amount of vintage pitch variation is right around where slop would get at level 3 (or the 4th tick mark, if you count the first tick mark).

For a vintage mode, honestly, I think that's great. Turned up all the way, it sounds almost exactly like the same analog drift that I saw with my prophet 6 module in the first few days (interestingly, while the module took over a dozen tuning sequences to get to a stable pitch, the keyboard version, which I returned the module for, has only needed one).

I also really like how the vintage knob treats the 6 voices as distinctly different - just like how it really behaves when it's out of tune due to temperature.

I don't want to sound ungrateful - what Dave Smith has done here is simply wonderful. They make the best synths (in my opinion) and the seem to be one of the best companies out there. Their support of their products seems second to none.

What I would like to see added is a second vintage mode. This first, tasteful one and a second one that is more aggressive with detuning; something that is more in line with the amount of detune and craziness that slop gave: a slop+vintage mode.

My gut says that simply matching the slop knob's pitch variation one-to-one wouldn't work well if they kept the exact same amount of variation of the other parameters that the vintage knob changes. (I imagine that hearing both at 10, together, wouldn't sound very good.)

That makes me think that what would be musical for a 3rd mode (slop+vintage) could be:

1) The "vintage" elements stay the same and the pitch variation is slightly more aggressive. Maybe allowing 10 on the knob to match where slop alone would be when was set to 6, instead of 3 (which is where the current vintage max seems to be).

2) A more complex arrangement where the "vintage" elements and the pitch elements don't increase across the full knobs movement. E.G. 0-5 works exactly like the current vintage mode and 5-10 only increases pitch variation OR 5-10 adds the all voice drift that slop was famous for. It's less vintage, but it would allow for the degree of craziness that slop can achieve.

3) Let slop be exactly the same amount of variation as "original slop" and just let the vintage elements get even crazier as you turn up the knob. (I imagine this would result in a "tasteful" vintage setting being just barely turning up the knob, which might not be desirable. I also think maxing both out would be a but too much, personally.)

4) A different, non-linear approach to both vintage and slop that would allow strong control over vintage but also the breadth to get as crazy detuned as what slop originally allowed.

5) The simplest: let "vintage" go further - at least twice, if not three times as far. If the current mode maxes out the pitch variation where slop was at 3, doubling (or tripling) it doesn't seem unreasonable.

Option 2 and 3 would allow the amount of "slop" programmed into existing patches to remain largely untouched. Option 1 would bring vintage mode closer to what was intended on the patches. I think option 3 or 4 would be really desirable options.

However, regardless of what I think is best, I believe a new, 3rd mode is necessary - I want to be able to leave the mode on globally, and still be able to turn that knob to maximum to get something as crazy as what was originally intended. That knob has always pushed the bounds of tastefulness - and I think it still should be able to. Every improvement with the new vintage mode is positive - except the range for it.

Right now, I'm debating reprogramming a lot of patches with a different amount of slop to match the vintage mode requirements to get the same pitch variation versus continuing to toggle vintage mode on/off.

The only thing that keeps me coming back to the original slop is the fact that vintage, while it can get crazy, cannot match the detuned craziness that slop could achieve. I approve of the current vintage knob's tastefulness. I just wish that there was a way to capture that while ALSO allowing that one knob to get as crazy as the original.

I applaud the new vintage mode - and the incredible support for their products - but that knob originally allowed pushing the bounds of tastefulness and I would like to see it not applied in such a safe way.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 08:23:17 AM by crapinet »

Re: Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2021, 12:46:45 PM »
Hey guys, update done on my P6 and i love it so much ! 😜
Well i've just noticed that the polymod depths (both filter env & osc 2) are affecting the vintage behavior. That's quite intriguing. Even when no destinations are selected, i can clearly hear them work on the vintage "messiness" in both their respective ways.
So i wonder if you guys have experienced that too, and if this was intentional programming from Sequential or not...
Anyway i personnally think this is an awesome hidden feature and make this wonderful synth even more unique 😎