Feature Request Prophet-5 vintage knob function in P6/OB6

[LoboLives]

Since having the slop @ 50% and above induces sea sickness, it would be nice if any future upgrade (however unlikely) used the last 64 steps of the Slop knob for Vintage.

That way, existing presets could still use slop at 0%-50% and be thresholded at 50%. Only those presets with extreme Slop would be less... sloppy.

Then if you turn the slop knob to 51%, we'll you're 1% into the vintage realm.

Or, to make it less discontinuous, value of 50% to 100% of the Slop knob are actually 50% to 0% Vintage (reverse direction)

That way crossing over from 50% slop to 50% vintage is a bit smoother. The algorithm would be discontinuous, but the resulting effect would be equally as deep - just derived from a different vector.

That creates a gradient of the slop knob like this:

clean -> mild slop -> pretty sloppy -> very sloppy -> very vintage -> pretty vintage -> mild vintage -> barely vintage

Almost like a PWN knob for slop/vintage!

That would be killer. I would pay for an upgrade to that. And it makes it easier for people to choose to try the new firmware because they'd feel like it was the "best of both worlds"

I think this is a good idea, if it's possible to change the behavior of the "slop" knob. But i think we need a function switch between "slop" and "vintage". Otherwise all presets with "slop" will not sound correct.

Sometimes you want to induce sea sickness.w

[wbajzek]

I think I would like this feature. As I understand it, it works more like I'd expect "Slop" to than it actually does. I suppose it might affect the sound of existing patches, but I don't really see how it would do so in a way that was inconsistent with their intention. Like, if you turned up the slop knob on a patch, you wanted slop. It might be achieved a different way, but would it really catastrophically change the way patches sound? I guess I'd need to hear some comparison examples to know.

[Polydata]

I would also add that it’s particularly essential on these two synths, since with the other polys you create envelope slop / voice mismatching with the mod matrix. The “vintage” algorithm is a great and simple solution for adding flexibility to digital envelopes.

[owenhatken]

Very keen for this feature too! Happy to pay for it if need be

[LoboLives]

I would also add that it’s particularly essential on these two synths, since with the other polys you create envelope slop / voice mismatching with the mod matrix. The “vintage” algorithm is a great and simple solution for adding flexibility to digital envelopes.

It's a completely different sound. Even Dave said it's nothing like Slop.

[wbajzek]

Doesn't the Prophet have a few unused global settings slots? Maybe the behavior could be selectable that way.

[blewis]

Right. Possibly. But at some point you have to decide if this would be per patch or global.

Valid arguments for both. I have a preference.

This came up in P10 voice limit discussions. Per patch or global? Pym noted valid args for both.

Doesn't the Prophet have a few unused global settings slots? Maybe the behavior could be selectable that way.

[alexpen]

++ for OB-6 as well.

Behringer UB-Xa is out soon, so the vintage knob will be a great USP.

[Samuel Laflamme]

That would be amazing! Ready to pay for this. I think the most clever way to make it would be to give option to select between the SLOP and the Vintage Knob. So all the presets using the slop would be kept as is...  And... what about a P6 REV 2 with Vintage knob, 5 octaves, bigger knobs and filter selection between P5 (rev 1-2, rev3) and P6! I still dream!

[Samuel Laflamme]

Check this out! Jonathan used VCO 2 to emulate the vintage knob behavior... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhvjXPwjWkM&ab_channel=JonathanRoberts

[666]

+1! the vintage knob on the prophet 5/10 is MAGICAL!
Please make the p6 an ob6 even more better!

[Pym]

Yeah this is what we thought about as the easiest way to integrate it but the problem is it changes a TON of stuff in the background and having it all blend right would require a great deal more code

This is why it's taking a while to determine , designing the integration isn't easy.

Since having the slop @ 50% and above induces sea sickness, it would be nice if any future upgrade (however unlikely) used the last 64 steps of the Slop knob for Vintage.

That way, existing presets could still use slop at 0%-50% and be thresholded at 50%. Only those presets with extreme Slop would be less... sloppy.

Then if you turn the slop knob to 51%, we'll you're 1% into the vintage realm.

Or, to make it less discontinuous, value of 50% to 100% of the Slop knob are actually 50% to 0% Vintage (reverse direction)

That way crossing over from 50% slop to 50% vintage is a bit smoother. The algorithm would be discontinuous, but the resulting effect would be equally as deep - just derived from a different vector.

That creates a gradient of the slop knob like this:

clean -> mild slop -> pretty sloppy -> very sloppy -> very vintage -> pretty vintage -> mild vintage -> barely vintage

Almost like a PWN knob for slop/vintage!

That would be killer. I would pay for an upgrade to that. And it makes it easier for people to choose to try the new firmware because they'd feel like it was the "best of both worlds"

I think this is a good idea, if it's possible to change the behavior of the "slop" knob. But i think we need a function switch between "slop" and "vintage". Otherwise all presets with "slop" will not sound correct.

[LPF83]

Yeah this is what we thought about as the easiest way to integrate it but the problem is it changes a TON of stuff in the background and having it all blend right would require a great deal more code

This is why it's taking a while to determine , designing the integration isn't easy.

Since having the slop @ 50% and above induces sea sickness, it would be nice if any future upgrade (however unlikely) used the last 64 steps of the Slop knob for Vintage.

That way, existing presets could still use slop at 0%-50% and be thresholded at 50%. Only those presets with extreme Slop would be less... sloppy.

Then if you turn the slop knob to 51%, we'll you're 1% into the vintage realm.

Or, to make it less discontinuous, value of 50% to 100% of the Slop knob are actually 50% to 0% Vintage (reverse direction)

That way crossing over from 50% slop to 50% vintage is a bit smoother. The algorithm would be discontinuous, but the resulting effect would be equally as deep - just derived from a different vector.

That creates a gradient of the slop knob like this:

clean -> mild slop -> pretty sloppy -> very sloppy -> very vintage -> pretty vintage -> mild vintage -> barely vintage

Almost like a PWN knob for slop/vintage!

That would be killer. I would pay for an upgrade to that. And it makes it easier for people to choose to try the new firmware because they'd feel like it was the "best of both worlds"

I think this is a good idea, if it's possible to change the behavior of the "slop" knob. But i think we need a function switch between "slop" and "vintage". Otherwise all presets with "slop" will not sound correct.

Implementing new features in a way that's guaranteed to retain backward compatibility with all existing created content can be very challenging..  I'd imagine doing this in a way that doesn't risk breaking existing sound banks could be no small order!

[Old Timer]

Check this out! Jonathan used VCO 2 to emulate the vintage knob behavior... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhvjXPwjWkM&ab_channel=JonathanRoberts

Nice video, thanks. I wonder what would happen if you send the random LFO to FREQ 2 as well, combining OSC2 to filter and Random LFO to OSC2?

[spaceshipearth]

I think you're absolutely right, thinking about it from the release management perspective, it seems possibly not worth the trouble to charge money for this feature, as the merge maintenance hassle would probably offset any additional revenue.

Also I don't know how it would be possible to validate a paid upgrade. The minute the OS gets out it would be all over the place. License keys would cause a huge hassle when renting a board from a backline vendor and needing to update the software, for example.

That being said, there are lots of features I'd toss some money at for the various Sequential/DSI products I have bouncing around.

[LPF83]

I think you're absolutely right, thinking about it from the release management perspective, it seems possibly not worth the trouble to charge money for this feature, as the merge maintenance hassle would probably offset any additional revenue.

Also I don't know how it would be possible to validate a paid upgrade. The minute the OS gets out it would be all over the place. License keys would cause a huge hassle when renting a board from a backline vendor and needing to update the software, for example.

That being said, there are lots of features I'd toss some money at for the various Sequential/DSI products I have bouncing around.

Not everyone's a thief though.  Cracked versions of plug-ins or other musical software have been around all along, yet some of us have legit licenses for everything.

[wbajzek]

I don't think Sequential's interested in bribes, they just want to make sure they can release it in a supportable way and most likely that means they'd rather have one version to support than two.

[crapinet]

This would be very exciting!

As creative as the bipolar idea would be, I would be happy with something as simple as the slop knob being completely replaced as a vintage knob. Yes, it would subtly change some sounds that I have made (as well as many presets), but I think I would like the change, at least for any patches that I've made that use slop. I feel that way because anywhere I used slop either subtly or drastically, the "vintage" aspect would be equally subtle or drastic. Having played around with the Rev4, I think turning "slop" into "vintage" would always line up with (or enhance) my intentions, at least personally.

However, I can see the desire to not have this alter any previous presets or custom patches. Because of that, maybe making it a global option makes the most sense if it can't be saved per patch. (Maybe that could be done by expanding the range of the existing "slop" parameter (e.g. doubling the range of the current slop parameter with the current range just being "slop" and the upper levels being "vintage," that could potentially leave existing patches alone and allow for new patches to use the new feature) but I have no idea if that's doable or not.)

Of course more options than just "slop" and "vintage" would be nice (like the bipolar idea or being able to adjust how "sloppy" the filters or the osc are getting per patch INDEPENDANTLY (e.g. the slop knob alone adjusts just the osc slop and a keypress plus the slop knob adjusts just the filter's slop)) - but I don't want to get greedy. I'd really be happy with anything.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but we're just talking about expanding what get's sloppy with slop, right? That's why I feel like even just replacing the slop knob with a "vintage" knob would be musical in most cases.

(Obligatory "I made an account just because I am excited to comment on this.")

[Tarjeijazz]

I like the way you are thinking!

[fixture]

Adding envelope variation to the slop knob would be a massive improvement and would be a huge gesture to prophet 6 / ob6 owners. I'd certainly pay for it. Frankly, I'm trying hard not to feel a bit resentful about being an after thought... especially because poly-mod is very weak in comparison to the vintage Sequential and the new prophet 5/10. Even Behringer's poly-mod goes deeper. That's a whole project that has needed fixing for sometime.

I made an account just to comment on this as well and perhaps create a poly-mod request, if one hasn't been already.