The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10

[ddp]

Found this in one of the replies, supposedly from GS:

Update from Dave Smith:
Houston, we have a problem, but we already know the fix: Read yourself:
Prophet 5 / Prophet 10 hardware tweak


"As some users have noticed, there is a drop in high frequencies on the current units in the field. I checked into it yesterday, and I’m highly embarrassed to say that we screwed up. Short story is there are some capacitors that were not meant to be installed, but did in fact get installed, causing the frequency drop.

A fair question would be “how did we not notice this?” This turns out to be due to my ears lacking any high end; too many Yardbirds, Who, Cream etc. concerts in the ‘60s. I picked up serial #1 on October 1st, and it sounded great to me! Since then, we’ve shipped every unit we’ve made because we have a huge backlog. And, with everyone working at home due to the pandemic, no one else played a production unit except me.

Those are just excuses; the real issue is that units in the field need to be corrected. Fortunately, it’s a fairly easy mod if you have access to a soldering iron, or a service center nearby. Two capacitors need to be removed; that’s it.
We will happily swap boards if that is preferred, or swap entire units. We will do whatever is required to make things right.

This affects serial numbers 1 to 195 on Prophet 5s, and 1 to 159 on Prophet 10s.
I owe everyone a deep apology for this; it’s not how we normally work, and I’m really sorry this fell through the cracks. Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,
Dave Smith

I would like to also apologize for any inconvenience and frustration this has caused any of you. While yesterday was stressful, hectic, and overwhelming, I'm glad that we could all work together to better qualify the described problem.

Rest assured that we will make sure to make this right at no cost to owners whom purchased any units within the noted serial ranges."

[Shaw]

Found this in one of the replies, supposedly from GS:

Update from Dave Smith:
Houston, we have a problem, but we already know the fix: Read yourself:
Prophet 5 / Prophet 10 hardware tweak


"As some users have noticed, there is a drop in high frequencies on the current units in the field. I checked into it yesterday, and I’m highly embarrassed to say that we screwed up. Short story is there are some capacitors that were not meant to be installed, but did in fact get installed, causing the frequency drop.

A fair question would be “how did we not notice this?” This turns out to be due to my ears lacking any high end; too many Yardbirds, Who, Cream etc. concerts in the ‘60s. I picked up serial #1 on October 1st, and it sounded great to me! Since then, we’ve shipped every unit we’ve made because we have a huge backlog. And, with everyone working at home due to the pandemic, no one else played a production unit except me.

Those are just excuses; the real issue is that units in the field need to be corrected. Fortunately, it’s a fairly easy mod if you have access to a soldering iron, or a service center nearby. Two capacitors need to be removed; that’s it.
We will happily swap boards if that is preferred, or swap entire units. We will do whatever is required to make things right.

This affects serial numbers 1 to 195 on Prophet 5s, and 1 to 159 on Prophet 10s.
I owe everyone a deep apology for this; it’s not how we normally work, and I’m really sorry this fell through the cracks. Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,
Dave Smith

I would like to also apologize for any inconvenience and frustration this has caused any of you. While yesterday was stressful, hectic, and overwhelming, I'm glad that we could all work together to better qualify the described problem.

Rest assured that we will make sure to make this right at no cost to owners whom purchased any units within the noted serial ranges."

Sounds like all will be right with the world.

[LPF83]

hell, my soft synths sound more like a real analog synth than that one does.

What's your definition of more like "real" analog?

My definition of a real analog synth is...  well... an actual analog synthesizer, as opposed to a virtual one.

[LPF83]

Found this in one of the replies, supposedly from GS:

Update from Dave Smith:
Houston, we have a problem, but we already know the fix: Read yourself:
Prophet 5 / Prophet 10 hardware tweak


"As some users have noticed, there is a drop in high frequencies on the current units in the field. I checked into it yesterday, and I’m highly embarrassed to say that we screwed up. Short story is there are some capacitors that were not meant to be installed, but did in fact get installed, causing the frequency drop.

A fair question would be “how did we not notice this?” This turns out to be due to my ears lacking any high end; too many Yardbirds, Who, Cream etc. concerts in the ‘60s. I picked up serial #1 on October 1st, and it sounded great to me! Since then, we’ve shipped every unit we’ve made because we have a huge backlog. And, with everyone working at home due to the pandemic, no one else played a production unit except me.

Those are just excuses; the real issue is that units in the field need to be corrected. Fortunately, it’s a fairly easy mod if you have access to a soldering iron, or a service center nearby. Two capacitors need to be removed; that’s it.
We will happily swap boards if that is preferred, or swap entire units. We will do whatever is required to make things right.

This affects serial numbers 1 to 195 on Prophet 5s, and 1 to 159 on Prophet 10s.
I owe everyone a deep apology for this; it’s not how we normally work, and I’m really sorry this fell through the cracks. Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,
Dave Smith

I would like to also apologize for any inconvenience and frustration this has caused any of you. While yesterday was stressful, hectic, and overwhelming, I'm glad that we could all work together to better qualify the described problem.

Rest assured that we will make sure to make this right at no cost to owners whom purchased any units within the noted serial ranges."

Sounds like all will be right with the world.

Great follow up from a great company.  What I want to know is, how many of those existing videos where it already sounds great is one of the affected units?  I assume since the issue was just discovered, it has to be all of them (minus pre-production units)?  If they sound that good now I can only imagine once repaired or replaced.

[A Thousand Eyes]

The fix is not going to make them more analog (by your very definition in fact) or (for others) make up in some perceived lack of bottom end.

Edit: I don't mean to come off rude here, but that's what I'd expect given the statement and what little I watched of the comparison video.

[LPF83]

The fix is not going to make them more analog (by your very definition in fact) or (for others) make up in some perceived lack of bottom end.

Edit: I don't mean to come off rude here, but that's what I'd expect given the statement and what little I watched of the comparison video.

Doesn't seem rude... Exceedingly non-sequitur given that all I actually said was that the broken Rev4 sounded like a soft synth to me...  but not rude.  I think you confused what I said with some sort of debate over "what real analog is", and that has nothing to do with my comment.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Found this in one of the replies, supposedly from GS:

Update from Dave Smith:
Houston, we have a problem, but we already know the fix: Read yourself:
Prophet 5 / Prophet 10 hardware tweak


"As some users have noticed, there is a drop in high frequencies on the current units in the field. I checked into it yesterday, and I’m highly embarrassed to say that we screwed up. Short story is there are some capacitors that were not meant to be installed, but did in fact get installed, causing the frequency drop.

A fair question would be “how did we not notice this?” This turns out to be due to my ears lacking any high end; too many Yardbirds, Who, Cream etc. concerts in the ‘60s. I picked up serial #1 on October 1st, and it sounded great to me! Since then, we’ve shipped every unit we’ve made because we have a huge backlog. And, with everyone working at home due to the pandemic, no one else played a production unit except me.

Those are just excuses; the real issue is that units in the field need to be corrected. Fortunately, it’s a fairly easy mod if you have access to a soldering iron, or a service center nearby. Two capacitors need to be removed; that’s it.
We will happily swap boards if that is preferred, or swap entire units. We will do whatever is required to make things right.

This affects serial numbers 1 to 195 on Prophet 5s, and 1 to 159 on Prophet 10s.
I owe everyone a deep apology for this; it’s not how we normally work, and I’m really sorry this fell through the cracks. Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,
Dave Smith

I would like to also apologize for any inconvenience and frustration this has caused any of you. While yesterday was stressful, hectic, and overwhelming, I'm glad that we could all work together to better qualify the described problem.

Rest assured that we will make sure to make this right at no cost to owners whom purchased any units within the noted serial ranges."

This may not be enough for some P5/10 owners, but it's the definition of transparency.  Dave made an honest mistake.  Take it or leave it.

[A Thousand Eyes]

.  I think you confused what I said with some sort of debate over "what real analog is", and that has nothing to do with my comment.

Actually, you were the one who turned it into that. Admittedly I only watched the first patch comparison up to the filters being fully opened. Silly me, I didn't realize the unit was actually "broken" and sounded less like real analog than a soft synth...  Here I thought it had to do with the two capacitors...

[creativespiral]

This forum really needs a “like” button.

Damn it!... had to actually reply to LIKE your comment!!    I've been thinking the same for years.   Having emotes really does improve forum engagement - makes people more interested in posting content (as they're more likely to receive positive feedback) and in general it improves positivity and forum growth. 

Would be awesome to switch over to Xenforo forums.   It's such a great forum system... nice looking skins good navigation and UI,  waaaay better search functionality, like/love/haha/sad/angry emotes, great composition tools, etc...   

https://xenforo.com/solutions/#xf

Fractal Audio uses Xenforo... It's the best run / most active / positive forum out there.   

... I'd even be willing to help set it up if there's interest ... 

[Shaw]

Fractal Audio uses Xenforo... It's the best run / most active / positive forum out there.   

Absolutely love the Fractal forum (guitar gear for you synth heads who aren’t hip).
Intelligent, helpful... less snarky.

But this forum has great folks too... it just needs a “like” button.  I agree about not having the “like” button encourages discourse... but sometimes you just want to give a post a quick “yeah, mate”!

[AlainHubert]

Could there be those two same capacitors in my Prophet REV 2 that I could remove to get a better high-frequency response? Because compared to my OB6, the sawtooth waveform on my REV2 sounds somewhat dull, much like the new "faulty" P5 REV4.
(one can always dream...)

[LPF83]

.  I think you confused what I said with some sort of debate over "what real analog is", and that has nothing to do with my comment.

Actually, you were the one who turned it into that. Admittedly I only watched the first patch comparison up to the filters being fully opened. Silly me, I didn't realize the unit was actually "broken" and sounded less like real analog than a soft synth...  Here I thought it had to do with the two capacitors...

You don't feel that adding two unintentional capacitors on the assembly line "breaks" the intended functionality of a synth?  Interesting.... Dave and crew apparently does.

For sake of not beating a dead horse, perhaps we can try replacing the word "broken" with "defective", to see if it adds clarity.  For the (easily confirmed) record, my point was only that to my ears, the "defective" Rev4, or "that Rev4 which was produced with an overabundance of unnecessary parts" sounded like a soft synth to me.  Anyone is free to go back and read my message and confirm I didn't try to dip a toe in philosophical discussions about what constitutes real analog.  I think you'd really enjoy some of the endless pedantic debates that take place on the GS forums.  Me I have a very limited "filter" (no extra charge for pun) on how much time I'm willing to waste on those, so you probably won't find what you're fishing for here with me.

[A Thousand Eyes]

Anyone is free to go back and read my message and confirm I didn't try to dip a toe in philosophical discussions about what constitutes real analog.  I think you'd really enjoy some of the endless pedantic debates that take place on the GS forums.  Me I have a very limited "filter" (no extra charge for pun) on how much time I'm willing to waste on those, so you probably won't find what you're fishing for here with me.

I think you confused what I said with some sort of debate when you decided to take the original comment out of context by focusing only on the first sentence. You've been mulling about whether or not to pick one up ... my point is maybe the P5/P10 fundamentally won't live up to your standards even when the fix comes, which ended up being the needed removal of two capacitors that were resulting in a drop in high frequencies.

[LPF83]

Anyone is free to go back and read my message and confirm I didn't try to dip a toe in philosophical discussions about what constitutes real analog.  I think you'd really enjoy some of the endless pedantic debates that take place on the GS forums.  Me I have a very limited "filter" (no extra charge for pun) on how much time I'm willing to waste on those, so you probably won't find what you're fishing for here with me.

I think you confused what I said with some sort of debate when you decided to take the original comment out of context by focusing only on the first sentence. You've been mulling about whether or not to pick one up ... my point is maybe the P5/P10 fundamentally won't live up to your standards even when the fix comes, which ended up being the needed removal of two capacitors that were resulting in a drop in high frequencies.

But I haven't been mulling whether to pick one up.  Since before it was announced what the Rev4 was going to be (and was an unannounced product), I mentioned in a couple of posts (such as this one https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,4499.msg45879.html#msg45879) that I decided to go ahead and buy a Prophet 6, because of the risks of early adoption of any new synth.  When it was announced that the new synth was a P5 reissue, I also stated I would get one.    So it's not a matter of if I will get a Rev4, it's just a question of when, and whether I get a P5 or P10 (which for the time being looks like a P10).  What I am also mulling is whether I want to buy a P10 (as opposed to a P5) without knowing whether a voice count limiter feature will be added, because the stealing of the sixth note is a feature I desire..  I do however also like the flexibility of a higher voice count such as 6 or 8 voices, and as long as they are configurable the option for more is nice too.  And unfortunately since the discussion thread I started around it was locked shortly after I posted it, we may not have a reasonable gauge of what the overall demand for that feature will be (not that it matters, as Dave has said that he thinks forums are a terrible place to collect customer feedback).

So, because of the uncertainty around the voice count limiter and early manufacturing issues, my purchase has been delayed, but at this point is not at all in question with regard to whether it will eventually happen or not.

One thing is for sure, forum discussions can certaintly lead to miscommunications, so hopefully I've clarified things here.

[jimknopf]

I have a Prophet 6 and had a Prologue 16. The Prologue 16 had an incredible months long tuning issue some time ago, and the actual Korg Japan management had executed appalling silence silent about the issue back then for many months, until they finally acknowledged it. Even then they did not commit to a fast solution, nor named a rough time frame for fixing. I sold my Prologue some days ago, for this and other reasons, and will definitely consider the new Prophet 5, now that the darkened sound issue is found and fixed.
I always wanted a Prophet 5 in good condition and really like the straightforward way of Dave's acknowledging a problem and taking full responsibility with a fast fix. I am also extremely satisfied with how useful the Prophet 6 has been for me. One thing I would love to hear before a final decision on any Prophet 5 buy though, are sound demos from fixed (or later) Prophet 5 units without the issue (audio files or Youtube sound demos).

 

[Paul Dither]

Comparison after the fix:

https://youtu.be/6tsV0eVijYY

[jg666]

Am I the only person who is worried about the seemingly lack of quality control here with this release? I've held off from getting a ProphetX due to a seeing quite a few issues involving units being bricked during updates etc and now a whole batch of the new synth has gone out with this problem.

[A Thousand Eyes]

https://www.sequential.com/note-dave-concerning-encoder-issues/
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php?topic=1573.

No. Frankly these sort of things happen all the time, especially with early batches and boutique companies. Not to mention we're currently going through a pandemic... It's how they respond that matters.

[jg666]

That's all well and good but it's no fun being this side of the Atlantic and being faced with having to return an expensive item. I also wouldn't expect to have to get a soldering iron out to repair a brand new item.

Anyway I've said my piece, I don't want to cause an argument or major diplomatic issue so I won't go on about it

I still want to buy every synth Dave makes every time I hear him speak about them!!!

[Sacred Synthesis]

Am I the only person who is worried about the seemingly lack of quality control here with this release? I've held off from getting a ProphetX due to a seeing quite a few issues involving units being bricked during updates etc and now a whole batch of the new synth has gone out with this problem.

Whatever may be the case, it can all be avoided by never buying any instrument that has a low serial number.  Folks have such urgent GAS problems that they don't temper their desires with prudence.  Very simply, buy an instrument only after the main problems have been found and fixed, even if it takes a year or two.