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The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10

LoboLives

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #80 on: October 03, 2020, 07:03:07 PM »
It would be interesting to do a social experiment and do a recording with the Prophet 6 but advertise it as a demo of the new Prophet 5 and not tell anyone. Just to see if anyone can really detect that something is amiss. More importantly document the reactions when the curtain is pulled back.
You just pulled the curtain back....

Nah. I wouldn稚 do it. I get enough hate mail.

LoboLives

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2020, 07:18:23 PM »
It would be interesting to do a social experiment and do a recording with the Prophet 6 but advertise it as a demo of the new Prophet 5 and not tell anyone. Just to see if anyone can really detect that something is amiss. More importantly document the reactions when the curtain is pulled back.

There's always been an abundance of sleight of hand on the Internet already though, the real value found today is in authenticity.  What would be of value I think is sort of a quiz format, where a number of patches are done with both a P6 and a P5-Rev4, matching as closely as possible, and see if there is a statistically significant number of folks that can really guess which is which.  I think anything less would be more of a house-egging prank than anything, but someone will probably do it anyway... if not with a P6 then a softsynth, just to mess with people.

A friend of mine did this with a Moog One owner. He gave him a recording of the Korg Prologue and said it was the Moog One and this owner was talking about how much better the Moog One sounded over all the current poly synths on the market....once we told him he absolutely lost it. 

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2020, 08:19:56 PM »
So... I知 thinking the Prophet 5, and then add a Prophet 5 module later so that I can have a stereo synth (or bi-timbral layers of I wanted)...

Anyone care to tell me why that might be a bad idea?

It's an excellent idea.  You'd have one of the best-sounding analog synthesizers on earth.  The only way to improve on it would be to use instead the Prophet 10 keyboard and module.  Then you'd be the king of the mountain.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 08:22:21 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2020, 08:34:31 PM »

I dunno, I知 just really torn on it. I really have to consider if I知 just buying this for the status of it rather than the practicality of it.

I don't think it would make sense from a practical standpoint.  Your P-6 will do everything the P-5 can do and then some.  Nobody's going to be able to tell the difference in a blind test.  Would you be able to design better sounds with the P-5 over the P-6?  Probably not. 

Yes, it's a status question.  I want it for total nostalgia purposes.  I built a career in the '80's on a P-5.  I've already said on this site a few years ago that I thought the P-08 was an improvement over the P-5.  I don't think I will change my mind.  However, to have a P-5 again?  ;D  Especially with the upgrades to bring it into the 21st century.  Wow!

BTW, except for the ping pong effect of putting notes within the stereo field, stereo out does not add anything if there are no effects.  An analog synth is basically a mono instrument.  All the great stereo stuff comes from the downstream effects.  I'm sure that's why DS made the synth mono.
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 08;
Pro 2; Prophet 12; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

MPM

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2020, 09:59:24 PM »
Ugh I’m really torn on this. I know there is no pressure to buy it but my OCD and just my overall mindset towards it is really conflicting. To be 100% honest if they did the two keyboard version of the P10 (with the poly sequencer built in) I would have put a pre order in for both the P5 and P10 regardless of price.

Just buy two P5's and stack them. Or three. Expensive, yes, but you will go to heaven knowing your family can sell them at a profit and pay off your life time of synth debts.

My usual dealer sent me a feeler yesterday and I respond my interest in the P10 was solid, BUT, I want one (5 or 10) set up with the P6 so I can have a decent looong session first. Will be listening for clicking voice stealing particularly.  Either way, P10 RESERVED   ;D
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 10:02:53 PM by MPM »
OB-6  Prophet-6  Prophet.Rev2/16  no kids

LoboLives

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2020, 11:35:35 PM »
Ugh I知 really torn on this. I know there is no pressure to buy it but my OCD and just my overall mindset towards it is really conflicting. To be 100% honest if they did the two keyboard version of the P10 (with the poly sequencer built in) I would have put a pre order in for both the P5 and P10 regardless of price.

Just buy two P5's and stack them. Or three. Expensive, yes, but you will go to heaven knowing your family can sell them at a profit and pay off your life time of synth debts.

My usual dealer sent me a feeler yesterday and I respond my interest in the P10 was solid, BUT, I want one (5 or 10) set up with the P6 so I can have a decent looong session first. Will be listening for clicking voice stealing particularly.  Either way, P10 RESERVED   ;D

As explained....two Prophet 5s does not make a Prophet 10.

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2020, 02:27:51 AM »
The P6 is so much more synth. Don’t really understand the design-choice for a mono output. Love the filter settings and improved ui-design though.

I spent more than a few early months using only one output of my P6, eschewing the internal FX, and running the synth into an ancient chorus pedal. All in the spirit of "trying to make the P6 sound like a P5." I gradually made my way back to the stereo outs and internal effects of the P6, as I learned to love the synth as very much its own entity. I'm delighted to see a mono out, no fx, no sequencer/arp etc. on the new P5. The Fatar keybed and MIDI/USB are the sort of "modenr" features I'd expect, but I love that Dave has basically just made a new, "best of all worlds" Prophet 5. The P5 has such weight and majesty to its sound, and always sits easy in a mix for me. It's pretty self-contained in the best way. 

I've truly fallen in love with the P6, and have said before that if I was to pick a single synth to use for everything, it'd be that one. I now own two P6s and have a rev 3 P5, but there's simply no way I can shake off the idea of "needing" a rev 4. The Prophet 5 has always been the ultimate synth to me.

I can imagine that a lot of pro players really welcome the new rev4 since a lot of the chips are not easy to find and the old ones are harder and harder to maintain. If there wasn’t a P6 I would consider the p5 or 10, but the P6 is also a machine that I fell in love with and just right. The HPF, the distortion, the effects, switchable velo and aftertouch are such great improvements, it is just an epic machine to be honest. If there would be a desktop version of the 5 or 10, rackable and soundwise a lot different than a P6 I will consider it.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 02:47:34 AM by solidtrax »
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LPF83

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2020, 05:15:24 AM »
It would be interesting to do a social experiment and do a recording with the Prophet 6 but advertise it as a demo of the new Prophet 5 and not tell anyone. Just to see if anyone can really detect that something is amiss. More importantly document the reactions when the curtain is pulled back.

There's always been an abundance of sleight of hand on the Internet already though, the real value found today is in authenticity.  What would be of value I think is sort of a quiz format, where a number of patches are done with both a P6 and a P5-Rev4, matching as closely as possible, and see if there is a statistically significant number of folks that can really guess which is which.  I think anything less would be more of a house-egging prank than anything, but someone will probably do it anyway... if not with a P6 then a softsynth, just to mess with people.

A friend of mine did this with a Moog One owner. He gave him a recording of the Korg Prologue and said it was the Moog One and this owner was talking about how much better the Moog One sounded over all the current poly synths on the market....once we told him he absolutely lost it.

It doesn't surprise me at all, as an owner of a Minilogue XDm.  The Prologue lacks the brilliant sequencer of the XDm, but otherwise I believe sounds pretty much the same (Prologue has more voices though).  I'm often amazed at how well a $550 Korg module holds up against three monsters (P6, OB6 and Rev2).  In fact with three simultaneous onboard FX, and the motion tracks on the sequencer, at times it excels over my other boards for certain use cases, even though the raw tonal character of the oscillators isn't in the same league.

I may be stirring the pot with this one, but to my ears the Minilogue XD/ Prologue do in fact sound better than the Moog One even if we took the rediculous price difference out of the equation.   I don't know why but in every video I've heard of the Moog One I just feel it punches way below its weight class.  Sometimes I think I should just add a Minilogue XD Keyboard to supplement the module and have 8 voices.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 05:18:20 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 11.

blewis

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2020, 07:40:54 AM »
Well that certainly is the expensive 10 voice option...

Are there any auto-pan euro rack modules whereby on can use the CV outs and implement an external pan spread?

So... I知 thinking the Prophet 5, and then add a Prophet 5 module later so that I can have a stereo synth (or bi-timbral layers of I wanted)...


Anyone care to tell me why that might be a bad idea?

Shaw

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2020, 08:39:18 AM »
So... I知 thinking the Prophet 5, and then add a Prophet 5 module later so that I can have a stereo synth (or bi-timbral layers of I wanted)...Anyone care to tell me why that might be a bad idea?

Well that certainly is the expensive 10 voice option...
Are there any auto-pan euro rack modules whereby on can use the CV outs and implement an external pan spread?

Ah... I should have predicated my statement better.  It痴 not about having a 10 voice unit. In fact, the stats on Sequential.com (the synth comparison chart) don稚 indicate that the Prophet 5 will be capable of poly chaining.   So the Prophet 5 keyboard + module couldn稚 polychain to replicate the Prophet 10.   


But what I am after is 5 stereo voices.   One of my favorite things to do on the Moog One (and Prophet 12) is to take a preset on Synth Layer 1, copy it to Synth Layer 2, and then make slight changes to the second layer (OSC shapes, Filter envelopes, Filter Cutoffs, LFO speeds and modulation amounts), and then pan the 2 layers hard left and hard right.   The multiple small/minute differences between the two sides of the stereo field create such a lush and gorgeous sound.


I think the same thing could be done with a Prophet 5 keyboard and module.   So I知 looking to create something that the 10 voice Prophet 10 can稚 do, nor could it do even if it had stereo outs.


Many of the Moog One samples I did for the Prophet X we池e done this way.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rockエn roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #90 on: October 04, 2020, 10:02:05 AM »
One of my favorite things to do on the Moog One (and Prophet 12) is to take a preset on Synth Layer 1, copy it to Synth Layer 2, and then make slight changes to the second layer (OSC shapes, Filter envelopes, Filter Cutoffs, LFO speeds and modulation amounts), and then pan the 2 layers hard left and hard right.   The multiple small/minute differences between the two sides of the stereo field create such a lush and gorgeous sound.

This is how I create nearly every patch now, including monophonic patches.  But there's one terrible drawback with it: once you've heard this sort of broad stereo richness, you can never go back.  After such an experience, a mono-signal synthesizer sounds sterile and lifeless.
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Shaw

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #91 on: October 04, 2020, 10:29:51 AM »
One of my favorite things to do on the Moog One (and Prophet 12) is to take a preset on Synth Layer 1, copy it to Synth Layer 2, and then make slight changes to the second layer (OSC shapes, Filter envelopes, Filter Cutoffs, LFO speeds and modulation amounts), and then pan the 2 layers hard left and hard right.   The multiple small/minute differences between the two sides of the stereo field create such a lush and gorgeous sound.

This is how I create nearly every patch now, including monophonic patches.  But there's one terrible drawback with it: once you've heard this sort of broad stereo richness, you can never go back.  After such an experience, a mono-signal synthesizer sounds sterile and lifeless.
Yeah... it's addictive.  And that's one of the reasons why I truly enjoy the Prophet X -- it's stereo filters get you most of the way there.


I'm imagining a truly stereo synth (mono or poly) where every parameter (OSC shapes, filter cutoffs, filter resonances, all envelope stages, all LFO parameters, all modulation amounts) could have an adjustable offset between the left and right side of the stereo path.  I already do this, as stated, on the Moog One and Prophet 12, but having this power available on 1 layer from the front panel...   :)
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rockエn roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #92 on: October 04, 2020, 11:19:05 AM »
That's the whole advantage of having two separate units.  As on the Prophet '08, you can follow the more common method of designing a patch on one layer and then copying it to the other layer.  But - just as you described - with a module next to the keyboard, it's much more inviting to continue making differences between the patches, until something immense has evolved.  Before long, you've created two independent sounds that have much more life and scope then merely two layers played simultaneously.  Plus, you have the ability to differently process them.  Especially when in stereo, two independent patches with different amounts of reverb results in a wonderfully broad sound, like the instruments of an orchestra spread across a stage.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 11:22:45 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Shaw

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #93 on: October 04, 2020, 11:57:08 AM »
That's the whole advantage of having two separate units.  As on the Prophet '08, you can follow the more common method of designing a patch on one layer and then copying it to the other layer.  But - just as you described - with a module next to the keyboard, it's much more inviting to continue making differences between the patches, until something immense has evolved.  Before long, you've created two independent sounds that have much more life and scope then merely two layers played simultaneously.  Plus, you have the ability to differently process them.  Especially when in stereo, two independent patches with different amounts of reverb results in a wonderfully broad sound, like the instruments of an orchestra spread across a stage.
You致e done this before.


:)
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rockエn roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #94 on: October 04, 2020, 12:22:47 PM »
That would be an understatement.
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Shaw

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #95 on: October 04, 2020, 12:49:56 PM »
That would be an understatement.
3 prophet 08s?!?!  That痴 dedication, my friend!
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rockエn roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #96 on: October 04, 2020, 02:03:50 PM »
One of my favorite things to do on the Moog One (and Prophet 12) is to take a preset on Synth Layer 1, copy it to Synth Layer 2, and then make slight changes to the second layer (OSC shapes, Filter envelopes, Filter Cutoffs, LFO speeds and modulation amounts), and then pan the 2 layers hard left and hard right.   The multiple small/minute differences between the two sides of the stereo field create such a lush and gorgeous sound.

This is how I create nearly every patch now, including monophonic patches.  But there's one terrible drawback with it: once you've heard this sort of broad stereo richness, you can never go back.  After such an experience, a mono-signal synthesizer sounds sterile and lifeless.
Yeah... it's addictive.  And that's one of the reasons why I truly enjoy the Prophet X -- it's stereo filters get you most of the way there.


I'm imagining a truly stereo synth (mono or poly) where every parameter (OSC shapes, filter cutoffs, filter resonances, all envelope stages, all LFO parameters, all modulation amounts) could have an adjustable offset between the left and right side of the stereo path.  I already do this, as stated, on the Moog One and Prophet 12, but having this power available on 1 layer from the front panel...   :)

Definitely agree that the stereo binarual is addicting!   Basically creating a double tracked stereo synth sound in one pass, real time.   About half of the patches in the VCM patch bank I did for Rev2 incorporate this type of sound design with stacked, hard panned layers.  With a good stereo monitor setup, or headphones, they just sound so immense, and when you go back to a mono (or regular stereo) type of patch, they just sound so much more 1-dimensional...  Minus bass sound designs and some specific famous/classic patch recreations, I use this technique extensively.   

The Rev2 is quite capable of doing all what you said, Shaw... stacked/hard panned stereo layers, with per voice, per component offsets to osc tuning, env timing, filter cutoff, resonance, etc.   On some patches, I've even got complex macro type behaviors on a per voice, stereo basis (osc glitches like you would find in old MemoryMoogs, osc tuning settle in the transient attack phase, per voice... etc)   It requires a bit of setup, but once you know how to do it, its actually fairly quick.   I generally do the main sound design, add in voice modeling offsets (2-4 minutes once you know how), then copy/paste/stack the patch, then do a little fine tuning to layer B to add a bit more per voice variance.   This video shows my typical sound design process for this:  https://youtu.be/jB9HG3k3vvQ?t=352

It's not automated, but like I said, once you do it a couple times and understand the value scaling and offsets, it only takes a few minutes to integrate deep, stereo voice modeling into the Rev2...  It's also super customizable - you can target virtually any component for voice variance, including macro type behaviors, and you can even define "virtual voice counts" (ie: 5, 6, 8 virtual voices that have repeating patterns of imperfection)   

My hope is that the next flagship synth from Seq will be a PolyEvolver 12 or 16, or a Prophet08 Rev3 - with bi/tri-timbral, two or three routable filters, mod transforms, and deep voice modeling implementation like outlined at the bottom of the VCM article: http://www.VoiceComponentModeling.com  - Hoping next year we'll see something like this - that would be my dream synth. 

Example from my VCM site of potential future implementation  (more details at the bottom of the VCM website):
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 02:15:44 PM by creativespiral »

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2020, 02:08:37 PM »
That would be an understatement.
3 prophet 08s?!?!  That痴 dedication, my friend!

Oh, I couldn't get the second P'08 module in the picture that powers the bass pedals.  :)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 02:10:36 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Shaw

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Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2020, 02:19:24 PM »
That would be an understatement.
3 prophet 08s?!?!  That痴 dedication, my friend!

Oh, I couldn't get the second P'08 module in the picture that powers the bass pedals.  :)


4????


"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rockエn roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: The New Sequential Prophet-5 and Prophet-10
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2020, 02:34:13 PM »
Yes, four.   8)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 02:38:01 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com