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Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?

Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« on: August 20, 2020, 06:06:53 AM »
Hi Everyone,

As I've been working with the Pro 3 for a week, I'm really impressed with the flexibility of the modulation routes, and did an estimate (just for fun).

Conservative estimate of unique modulation routes of the Sequential PRO 3

792,281,630,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Attached a PDF on how I got to this number. Although I think this is correct, I'm open to being corrected.

Best regards,

Gino
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 06:11:50 AM by Gino.Cortesi »

chysn

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Re: Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2020, 07:17:54 PM »
I think it's 800 states (20x40) taken 32 at a time, so

800! / (32! x (800-32)!)

or 1.6x10^57

This doesn't count overlap, but overlap is essentially useless on the Pro 3, so this might be more realistic. But if you really want to include overlap, I think you'd count permutations with

800! / (800-32)!

which is... bigger. Agreed, essentially infinite.

What this is saying is that I should get to bed.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 07:28:18 PM by chysn »
Pro 3 #1640
macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq
www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

chysn

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Re: Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 07:37:09 PM »
I have been a little intimidated by the huge of the Pro 3, speaking of super-astronomical numbers.

I've had it for a week, and I've barely touched the sequencer. I've been amazed by the simple sounds. Just an oscillator going through the filter, with a touch of that plate reverb. It reminds me of my old Little Phatty, but the Little Phatty was nothing but mids compared to the Pro 3.

The possibilities are unlimited, but I've found that the presets are a bit heavy-handed when the instrument itself offers a gorgeous, creamy, simple tone. It's great to have the tone combined with the capability in one package.

Needless to say, I didn't go to bed. I turned on the Pro 3 instead.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 07:43:24 PM by chysn »
Pro 3 #1640
macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq
www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

Re: Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2020, 07:40:38 PM »
Thanks!

I did want to get back to this, just to have a more accurate estimate.

I determined that overlaps are indeed useful, but only 2 deep.
The 3rd one is not discernible in most cases. I started writing a program to simulate the number of permutations based on that, but got side tracked :)




chysn

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Re: Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2020, 07:57:11 PM »
I determined that overlaps are indeed useful, but only 2 deep.

Allowing up to one repetition per route would be something like

831! / (32! x 799!)

or 5.5 x 10^57

That might be a bit off, but it'll certainly be closer to the combination result than the huge permutation result.
Pro 3 #1640
macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq
www.wav2pro3.comwww.soundcloud.com/beige-mazewww.github.com/chysnwww.beigemaze.com

Re: Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2020, 06:05:53 AM »
Cool :)

Letís go with 5,500,000,000,000,000,178,794,520,703,784,878,169,782,272,149,865,166,274,560 as a coservative estimate.

W07

Re: Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2020, 03:56:39 PM »
I wish. the reality is the limit of the processor power will be hit sooner than the theoretical amount of routings.
I already made one patch where the reverb algorythm would glitch out. If i removed one routing slot, doesn't matter what it does, the glitching stops. Add one slot, and the glitching resumes. Clearly hitting the limit of the arm processor there. To be fair almost all slots were filled, and i was using a lot of modulation to the FX parameters, that probably burdens the system more.

I've made plenty of other patches that use all mod slots without this problem, though.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 03:58:27 PM by W07 »

Re: Effectively infinite mod routes on Pro 3?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2021, 10:49:01 PM »
Interesting ...

Have you considered the step sequencer as mod routes as well? ;)

You can set the sequencer as a simple direct modulation source, but you can also use the mod matrix and step sequencer altogether.  :P

For example, you can set a custom sequence for the LFO / aux envelope etc. to modulate some of the other parameters, such as filter cutoff.

e.g. In mod matrix: mod 3 = aux envelope > 0 > filter cutoff
       In step sequencer: sequencer track 5 destination = mod 3 amount

       Create your custom pattern with the aux envelope amount to be
       either OFF / ON & +ve amt / ON & -ve amt

I found this feature extremely useful when you want to create complex and evolving patterns with the arpeggiator or use it as a drum sequencer with Eurorack.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 12:11:48 AM by Wavescape »