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Prophet - 18

LPF83

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Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2020, 03:44:58 PM »
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.

No they don't.  I had a Juno 106 and a Super JX and both were great.  I got the Super JX, which is an amazing synth; for only 300 dollars.  I got the PG 800 and had a great time with it.  It had stereo outputs and 12 voices.  I was always splitting the keyboard to do a analog bass wuith left hand and chorusing stereo string saw pad with my right.  Unfortunatly I did to much aderal installing Vecoven Mod in and slopped solder and crossed some wires and couldn't ever get the thing to power on again and the Juno I sold.

I think the JDXA is on of those hybrid synths with 100% digital oscillator section.

From memory of having DCO Roland synths...  They are silky smooth warm precise instruments.  And that digital precision on the oscillators can make them do some pretty crazy stuff.  VCO's just sound better in my opinion.  Warmer deeper bases.  Brighter sounding.  Like pure electricity.

Roland seems a little dodgy on the specs they publish on their modern synths, but from what I can tell, 4 voices are DCO and 64 are digital.  I'm sure the thing sounds good enough, a lot of times its the filter that makes the biggest difference, but to be honest there isn't a Roland product that I am gear lusting after at the moment.  If anything I'd like to get another Juno 106, but I sold my last one for $375 back in the early 90s (going rate at the time), and they are going for a lot more than that these days :).  I'd have one again in a heartbeat if I wasn't worried about service issues (I am not interested in soaking the voice chips in acetone to restore them, resoldering the whole board etc).

You're right about VCOs and bass -- there's nothing like it.  Moog synths do a great bass but I prefer the tones of the Prophet and Obie in this category.
Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2020, 06:32:50 PM »
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.

No they don't.  I had a Juno 106 and a Super JX and both were great.  I got the Super JX, which is an amazing synth; for only 300 dollars.  I got the PG 800 and had a great time with it.  It had stereo outputs and 12 voices.  I was always splitting the keyboard to do a analog bass wuith left hand and chorusing stereo string saw pad with my right.  Unfortunatly I did to much aderal installing Vecoven Mod in and slopped solder and crossed some wires and couldn't ever get the thing to power on again and the Juno I sold.

I think the JDXA is on of those hybrid synths with 100% digital oscillator section.

From memory of having DCO Roland synths...  They are silky smooth warm precise instruments.  And that digital precision on the oscillators can make them do some pretty crazy stuff.  VCO's just sound better in my opinion.  Warmer deeper bases.  Brighter sounding.  Like pure electricity.

Roland seems a little dodgy on the specs they publish on their modern synths, but from what I can tell, 4 voices are DCO and 64 are digital.  I'm sure the thing sounds good enough, a lot of times its the filter that makes the biggest difference, but to be honest there isn't a Roland product that I am gear lusting after at the moment.  If anything I'd like to get another Juno 106, but I sold my last one for $375 back in the early 90s (going rate at the time), and they are going for a lot more than that these days :).  I'd have one again in a heartbeat if I wasn't worried about service issues (I am not interested in soaking the voice chips in acetone to restore them, resoldering the whole board etc).

You're right about VCOs and bass -- there's nothing like it.  Moog synths do a great bass but I prefer the tones of the Prophet and Obie in this category.

Acetone?  Maybe that is what my Chroma Polaris needs.  I am having issues with envelope volume release.  The time counts down and the volume just ends instead of fades plus some of the functions barely work.  Like the modulation routing options...

https://youtu.be/XBqUAC2Cp5w

I watched the gear 4 music demo for Prophet 16 and it sounds great!  Korg Prouloouge is also interesting.  Although I don't need the digital FM osc... Those aren't musically interesting as much and more for special effects on movies I would say.  The Moog turns me off with that digital effects section;  For a 8-9,000 dollar synth.  It is a waste of time and space for me now that I have Bluetooth 5.0 streaming lossless 24bit 384,000hz audio.  I have 24bit 48,000hz recording and even 16 bit.  Although that they are crisp and HD, not nearly as clear and smooth as 384khz; so to justify spending that kind of money doesn't make sense to me.

I almost bought one 6 years ago from ebay for about 900 dollars a Prophet '08, but the seller flaked on me.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 06:38:06 PM by ryankm »

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2020, 08:10:50 PM »
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Tempest Drum Computer, ISLA S2400 Drum Sampler, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2020, 08:19:12 PM »
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?

For the DSI yes, but for the Moog no.  For 8000 dollars it is to much money.  IT takes up space on the circuit and in the OS.  I would rather have them omit it for maintenance reasons.

Question:  These digital effects.  Are they able to go on top of the analog signal path with out hindrance and mix it together?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 08:24:21 PM by ryankm »

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2020, 01:44:26 PM »
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?

For the DSI yes, but for the Moog no.  For 8000 dollars it is to much money.  IT takes up space on the circuit and in the OS.  I would rather have them omit it for maintenance reasons.

Question:  These digital effects.  Are they able to go on top of the analog signal path with out hindrance and mix it together?

Iíve never had an issue. Generally a lot of older synth players played through Eventide orLexicon Effects units and those were digital as well. The effects on the Arturia MatrixBrute are Analog but personally I donít find they are as nice sounding as the effects on the Sequential stuff nor the Moog One stuff.

Unless you are recording to reel to reel tape and editing on tape as well then fetishizing over a pure analog signal path is pointless. Itís going to go into you DAW and end up digital anyway.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Tempest Drum Computer, ISLA S2400 Drum Sampler, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

jok3r

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Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2020, 03:26:04 PM »
Unless you are recording to reel to reel tape and editing on tape as well then fetishizing over a pure analog signal path is pointless. Itís going to go into you DAW and end up digital anyway.

Thanks for speaking out, what I'm thinking everytime I read those discussions. I use the holy digital Strymon Trinity (mobius, timeline, bigsky) and they are very fine pieces of gear that sound absolutely gorgeous. Even if I would record to tape, it would be these effects that round up my sound.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES,  Akai MPK 261

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2020, 03:43:16 PM »
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?

For the DSI yes, but for the Moog no.  For 8000 dollars it is to much money.  IT takes up space on the circuit and in the OS.  I would rather have them omit it for maintenance reasons.

Question:  These digital effects.  Are they able to go on top of the analog signal path with out hindrance and mix it together?

Iíve never had an issue. Generally a lot of older synth players played through Eventide orLexicon Effects units and those were digital as well. The effects on the Arturia MatrixBrute are Analog but personally I donít find they are as nice sounding as the effects on the Sequential stuff nor the Moog One stuff.

Unless you are recording to reel to reel tape and editing on tape as well then fetishizing over a pure analog signal path is pointless. Itís going to go into you DAW and end up digital anyway.

I almost got a reel to reel going, but even that 4 track Yamaha Cassette mixer recording sounds better than alot of digital recordings to me.  It's not anything special, but I have the ability to record at 32 bit floating point ( same as 24 bit audio, but with 8bit of buffer) 384khz.  That is super smooth.  I had a Lexicon delay / reverb thing from the 90's.  It wasn't bad.  It could do things my analog delay couldn't do, but also didn't sound as good.  I don't need tape.  Just plug the mixer straight to the line in and record it at max resolution.  I can take that with me anywhere now and play it back with my cell phone computer.  24 bit 192khz almost sounds exactly the same; I tryed it.  I played a note and then I played it back.  That is nearly identical.  I haven't done to many tests with the 384khz yet, but it is a miracle I use to record at those levels becasue now I can play them back.  Bit depth is frequency range and hz is the resolution....  24 bit can hurt your ears so that is why cd's are 16 bit.  There is stuff i do with VCO's that crack when compressed to 16 bit digitaly, so 24 bit is needed.  and 384khz is resolution like dpi to a monitor.  It is how smooth the playback is going to sound.  Like it will make 384,000 reads/writes in one second of the full 24 bit digital spectrum versuses 48,000.  That is why it sounds so much better.

Don't need tape except it's good for compression that way you can get the VCO sound that we all love with out the pain of 24bit audio and the cracks and distortion of 16bit.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 03:51:17 PM by ryankm »

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2020, 08:10:22 PM »
Quote
Acetone?  Maybe that is what my Chroma Polaris needs.  I am having issues with envelope volume release.  The time counts down and the volume just ends instead of fades plus some of the functions barely work.  Like the modulation routing options...

Wait -  can you explain what's going on with your Polaris? I too have a polaris and if you're referring to envelope volume release perhaps cutting out abruptly, then we need to talk about calibration of the unit, which is well described in the manual. The polaris is extremely well thought out and has very good documentation, even if the manual is very thick and it's perhaps convoluted.

This makes me think that there's a lot going on that you might not be aware about:

1) Do you have a new membrane panel on the top or the old one? We can figure that out if you don't know.

2) Do you hear clicking when you press buttons? This can be turned on/off as desired.

3) What's wrong with the modulation routing? Could be something to do with a bad membrane panel which is pretty cheap to replace - I would totally do that if you haven't yet Paul DeRocco, who worked on the Polaris (I believe) made new membranes that do not suffer like the old ones.

...now - I'm pretty sure you said you thought the Polaris sounds "thin" - obviously it's subjective, but thin is probably one of the last things I'd call the polaris. I've made a few videos of it and honestly it's about the most massive synth I've ever heard. Of course, I saw this thread cuz I'm wondering about getting something like the OB6 or Prophet 6, but not necessarily to get rid of my Polaris...

Here's a video of me using mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LyoNGZOfcQ

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2020, 03:23:49 AM »
Quote
Acetone?  Maybe that is what my Chroma Polaris needs.  I am having issues with envelope volume release.  The time counts down and the volume just ends instead of fades plus some of the functions barely work.  Like the modulation routing options...



I just picked up a DSI rev2 16 voic3 and i am using it as the midi controller.



Wait -  can you explain what's going on with your Polaris? I too have a polaris and if you're referring to envelope volume release perhaps cutting out abruptly, then we need to talk about calibration of the unit, which is well described in the manual. The polaris is extremely well thought out and has very good documentation, even if the manual is very thick and it's perhaps convoluted.

This makes me think that there's a lot going on that you might not be aware about:

1) Do you have a new membrane panel on the top or the old one? We can figure that out if you don't know.

2) Do you hear clicking when you press buttons? This can be turned on/off as desired.

3) What's wrong with the modulation routing? Could be something to do with a bad membrane panel which is pretty cheap to replace - I would totally do that if you haven't yet Paul DeRocco, who worked on the Polaris (I believe) made new membranes that do not suffer like the old ones.

...now - I'm pretty sure you said you thought the Polaris sounds "thin" - obviously it's subjective, but thin is probably one of the last things I'd call the polaris. I've made a few videos of it and honestly it's about the most massive synth I've ever heard. Of course, I saw this thread cuz I'm wondering about getting something like the OB6 or Prophet 6, but not necessarily to get rid of my Polaris...

Here's a video of me using mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LyoNGZOfcQ

it dose have a new membrane panel.  The guy I picked up from back in 2018 put it on.  It has always needed a warm up to work correctly.  As in me playing it for awhike tweaking parameters.  Right now as in this moment as I right this it currentlynis working.  I was scared there for a second like it wasn't going to cime back.   Yes yes sometimes the modulation is glitchy.  I have hard time getting it to go through.  To much or none at all.   It is hard tobget the vibrato to work right also.   like it'll randomly bend the note way down.    It was getting worse, but as of this moment everything works.   Some of the sliders need to be replaced.   Is there anything i can bring those back with besides that hexane spray?   like a grease?

I still have all the screws out of it to take apart.  I may have to perform surgurey.  I just havent figured out where to look first.   I know the Master Vol/Tune slider is having issues.   

oh btw I still have the orig. manual forbthat thing.

Anyway i just picked up a Dsi prophet 16 and te dco's sound much more thick and fatter than I was expecting, so thats good.   Ive got em both tuned together right now.   Doing a clavio bells thing and the Polaris is working right now.   It usually works best when filtering.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 03:45:09 AM by ryankm »

Re: Prophet - 18
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2020, 10:27:39 AM »
So just opened it up and sprayed everything with that contact cleaner and put downward pressure on evry chip and cleaned up the keys a bit.   in all it was a 20min job and when I fired it up I was pleasently surprised to find that it sounded better than ever and evrything was working better than ever.   

....  There was a Prophet T8 on sale on craigslist here 5 years ago for 4500$$  and I am kicking myself for not getting it to buy it right now.