LFO delay

mgallardo · « **on:** April 13, 2016, 08:37:55 AM »

Hi,

My new Prophet 6 arrived 5 days ago. Been playing a lot but there is a lot of things I don't reach yet. One thing I don't know is how to apply LFO modulation with some delay after start playing, like a "fade in".

Any ideas? Is it possible to do? Some users told me it is not possible to do with Prophet 6. There is no "LFO delay/fade button", I didn't realized about that when I purchased the Prophet 6. A LFO routed to an envelope could make the trick very well, but we neither don't have this feature in Prophet 6...

Thank you

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2016, 08:39:28 AM »

That was one of my concerns as well, and the only solution seems to be aftertouch.

mgallardo · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2016, 08:53:53 AM »

Oh these are sad news... Maybe I can make a feature request? I really need that function... is my 80% playing style.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2016, 09:05:18 AM »

Same for me. A second LFO would have changed everything, even a dedicated vibrato LFO to the left of the keyboard, as with the Oberheim Two-Voice Pro.

mgallardo · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2016, 09:11:34 AM »

Bfff, sad. OK I'm going to write them, maybe the team can work on something and make a software update. Do you know where can I write a feature request for them?

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2016, 09:23:57 AM »

This is the email address for DSI Support:

support@davesmithinstruments.com

Paul Dither · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2016, 09:52:58 AM »

The problem is that the Prophet-6 can't be simply extended with further features of this kind. It has been possible to add effects and a control indicator (the dot that shows up in the display after you changed a value) as of the latest firmware, but what you are asking for would require at least two additional parameter controls (for activating a delay and setting a delay time) that could maybe be combined in one knob, an additional LFO, or an auxiliary envelope. With the Prophet-6 consciously following the "what you see is what you get" approach, meaning that the display only offers access to control global settings, any functionality that would require the enhancement of a menu does not work because there is no menu. And the hardware can't be changed anymore. If anything, maybe a certain combination of buttons could be part of the solution. This, however, would be diametrically opposed to the Prophet-6's design philosophy, which doesn't make use of dual functions with regard to any of its parameters.

Robot Heart · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2016, 10:54:51 AM »

Paul Dither is spot-on. While an LFO delay parameter could certainly be added in software, the UI of the Prophet-6 does not support it. We went to great lengths to provide a knob per function interface and Dave is completely opposed to hidden functions (even when they're labelled!), so the fact that there's nothing on the UI to tell you where the feature is makes it 100% certain this parameter will not be added. Sorry to disappoint you but that is his design philosophy.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2016, 11:02:31 AM »

Paul is always spot-on.

Maybe on a future Sequential instrument? Even just a second LFO would have made such a tremendous improvement on the Prophet 6 and OB-6.

sofine · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2016, 12:29:21 PM »

You could send an LFO (with a delayed trig) over CV to the filter or volume pedal inputs or use midi from a DAW to achieve an LFO with delay to any cc'd parameter. Not ideal, but possible.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2016, 12:30:46 PM »

How about a Moog CP-251?

mgallardo · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2016, 12:54:25 AM »

Thanks for your replies. I know that UI design here is important, but cannot see why some hidden extra features are problematic when it can supplies user needs. Is not going with Dave Smith philosophy? OK then. But is a lot of money, I'll have to rethink about giving back the synth then. I'll try with the aftertouch and see if I can make what I want adjusting the sensitivity. As I said is a function I really need to use a lot.

Hector Space · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2016, 08:07:33 AM »

I can understand the philosophy of single function per control. In many ways it's what makes the p6 a joy. I can also understand the need to build the product to meet a cost. But I think there's room for a little flexibility here.
There is already the president of hidden functions on Unison ( number of voices) and Glide( modes) There is no label for these extra facilities either!
I've already asked if a similar feature could be added to the velocity control signal added to the vca envelope. Using the the same approach: hold the velocity button and use the inc / Dec keys to adjust the amount of velocity added. I was told pretty much where to go by DSI! Hay ho..
A way to add LFO delay would be a second function using the LFO amount. E.g. to hold osc 1 and osc 2 buttons down and adjust the LFO initial amount to adjust the delay time.
But I'm sure that'll be kicked out too!

Otherwise we'll just have to wait for someone like Chipaudette to come along and add these features retrospectively!! Never say never..

BobTheDog · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2016, 10:59:53 AM »

Quote from: Hector Space on April 14, 2016, 08:07:33 AM

I can understand the philosophy of single function per control. In many ways it's what makes the p6 a joy. I can also understand the need to build the product to meet a cost.

I guess it is not cost that made the decision but rather the idea of a simpler way of life, less parameters, a bit like those old black and white films. Isn't that why people buy the P6 and OB6?

Robot Heart · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2016, 11:39:52 AM »

You are correct, BobTheDog. At least that was our approach during the design phase.

While it's true, there are already a very few hidden features, feature-creep is real and as I've mentioned elsewhere everyone thinks their feature is the most important, and hence the one that should get implemented. That being said, I wouldn't hold your breath for any new features on the P6 beyond what we've included in the latest beta.

goldphinga · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2016, 12:37:41 PM »

This constant want for more features is something I can understand, we all want more but instead of getting fixated on these things, just enjoy the instrument, AND before dropping serious money on a bit of kit, do your research. If you are happy enough to spend that much on a synth and know what it can do from the release spec than any extra features should be a bonus but don't hate on DSI for not bringing this and that (well, the Tempest is a different matter, that still feels unfinished). I think in this day and age with the ease that new features can be added to software folks think its that easy to squeeze this or that into hardware- i dont think it is. What do I know anyway!

Tom · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2016, 12:53:11 PM »

I have both P6 and OB6 I would be very thankful if the LFO delay feature would be added!!!

The advantages of this Feature overrules any philosopy or other arguments!

black953mj · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2016, 02:16:09 PM »

Quote from: goldphinga on April 14, 2016, 12:37:41 PM

This constant want for more features is something I can understand, we all want more but instead of getting fixated on these things, just enjoy the instrument, AND before dropping serious money on a bit of kit, do your research. If you are happy enough to spend that much on a synth and know what it can do from the release spec than any extra features should be a bonus but don't hate on DSI for not bringing this and that (well, the Tempest is a different matter, that still feels unfinished). I think in this day and age with the ease that new features can be added to software folks think its that easy to squeeze this or that into hardware- i dont think it is. What do I know anyway!

Agree 100 percent here - have to do your homework so you know what it can and can't do before buying. I like the extras when they come as long as it does not compromise the core features that I bought when it cam out in any way. If the extras never come I'm still getting what I paid for.

Sacred Synthesis · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2016, 05:47:15 PM »

I think the LFO issue may be the exception, though. A second LFO with delay is SO BASIC to synthesis sound design. I've seen the same request many times here and elsewhere. It's the one request that just won't go away - enough so that, for some or many, it's the difference between buying the instrument or not. Speaking for myself, put a second LFO with delay on the Prophet-6, and I'll buy one. Otherwise, I probably won't.

Hector Space · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2016, 04:28:24 AM »

Agreed, the p6 is fab. I keep being amazed at both its flexibility and its sound quality. I don't mean to be disrespectful of the great work that's been done. To my ears it's a future classic. A synth that is really a worthy successor to the p5. I do not want to appear to be ungrateful of these facts. The latest beta has brought in more than I had expected with the ob6 effects. That's great.
I feel strongly though that there is no harm in suggesting and debating how this instrument could be improved. It isn't a sin to share our experience and our dreams. Whether DSI have the time or inclination to take up any of these is another matter, that's justified by a different set of needs.
You may think that software is a curse, bringing with it a kind of unhealing wound of development expectation.
My view is that the p6 design should be kept open to development because it is really worth it. Dave certainly did this back when I owned a p2000. Right up to the end there were some brilliant enhancements like cross fade looping! Maybe the way forward is to pay for future upgrades? I don't expect something for nothing. Or with DSI's agreement, crowd fund them? That way we can collectively be part of the P6's future...

LFO delay

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