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Rev2, the Neverending Story

Jason

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2020, 04:29:13 PM »
Given your love and expertise with the Ď08 (your videos helped to influenced me to get my first one), you should at least get a Rev2 for a month and see how you like it. I immediately loved the improved keybed and  started adding effects... and learned to love other improvements later. I would suggest getting (the other) Jasonís patches and programming some of your patches with his templates.

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2020, 08:28:55 AM »
Back in December I was reading about the VCM techniques developed by Creativespiral and bought his patches. I'll probably write about this on his thread at some point, but I just love what he did! It's so clever, and it definitely gives me a lot more of the vintage feel than I ever had before. Another technique he uses a lot is hard panning, which is easy to do on the Rev2.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of layer stack hard panning for a binaural effect.   I've had a PEK since the release in 2005.  Once I figured out that you can achieve similar stereo type of architecture with Rev2, I've never turned back.   There is a slight difference in doing fast LFO modulation to Pan dest, but for the majority of sounds, you can achieve that same sort of wide PEK stereo sound, with 8 voices on each side, each with two Osc plus Sub and VCF/VCA per L/R channel. 

I have thoroughly enjoyed your PEK/08 music through the years @SacredSynthesis.   Now that you have the Rev2, I hope you hold on to it!.. definitely think you'll create some awesome music with it.   

There are a few free VCM patches that I uploaded here:
https://www.presetpatch.com/synth/DSI-prophet-rev2

I feel like you might be able to create some magic with some of these:
BRS_Vangel_VCM  - Huge brass Blade Runner type of patch
STR_Live_Orchestra_VCM - Wide stereo string orchestra
ORG_Pipe_Organ_VCM - Stereo pipe organ
STR_Dynamic_Strings_VCM - Another wide stereo string patch with lots of performance dynamics
BRS_Ceremony_VCM - Another big brass type of stereo patch

I too am eagerly looking forward to the next OS update.  The bug in the Gated sequencer key-step mode while stacked actually limits how accurate voice modeling you can do (it skips steps).   The VCM still works well in stacked patches and gives you that sort of classic synth and analog ensemble voice variance, but once this bug is squashed, it will be even more detailed and voice specific for the defined voices in gated seq.    (Reference:  Ticket #48090)


Thanks my Friend. I wasn't playing as much for a while there (I dislocated a pinky doing jiu jitsu, which didn't help) and was checking in to the forum even less. I've been playing a lot over the last several months (I also got a Yamaha Montage 8, which also gets a lot of attention.) Before posting again, I wanted to read through many of the posts that I missed, and I only recently got caught up.

Hope your finger feels better, dude!   I did jiu-jitsu / judo for 8 years... many finger and shoulder injuries ;) ... but I do credit it with saving my life in a downhill mountain biking accident - went over the handlebars at high speed, head first toward rocky ground, and instinctually rolled it into standing position... tore up my hand, arm and back pretty bad, but survived to ride down to urgent care. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 08:50:45 AM by creativespiral »

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2 - Sound Sets and Patch Banks - Now Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2020, 02:10:47 PM »
I have thoroughly enjoyed your PEK/08 music through the years @SacredSynthesis.   Now that you have the Rev2, I hope you hold on to it!.. definitely think you'll create some awesome music with it.   

I appreciate the generous remarks, Creativespiral.  You've obviously made a tremendous contribition to the field of Prophet '08/Rev2 sound design, and I thank you for that. 

Unfortunately, I don't yet have a Rev2.  I'm waiting most anxiously for the next OS update and the reports on it from others.  I don't plan on waiting forever, though.  There are plenty of used Prophet '08s available in mint condition, and they're looking better to me every day.  And I do value the criticims and concerns discussed in this thread.

Like yourself, I was deeply influenced by the Evolver experience.  About ten years ago, I used to make identical patches on the P'08 and the PEK; then I'd compare their ambient sonic character.  I'd play them, record them, and even trigger a sequence and sit back or walk around the room listening.  I couldn't figure out why the Evolver patches almost always sounded far richer to me.  At about the same time, Dave Smith somewhere commented that, if you want strings, go for the Prophet '08, but if you want bizarre and wild sound effects, go for the Poly Evolver.  I thought to myself, "No, I don't agree. The PEK is superb at lush strings and all those gorgeous classic pads."  My point is, I could hardly believe that it all came down to a stereo image, but it's true.  In synthesisis, especially in the domain of large-scale polyphonic patches, there is no comparing a patch in stereo to a patch in mono. 

When I translated this knowledge to the Prophet '08 by linking keyboard and module units - and not to expand the number of voices, but to double and split idential sounds to opposite channels - then my P'08 patches suddenly matched or surpassed the same sounds on the PEK.

My method is laughably simple to some of you, I know: simply pan each unit at an analog mixer.  Others have devised different methods of achieving the same result, but I still prefer this one for several reasons.  First, it's expensive - yes - but very simple to set up and doesn't cost an LFO; second, it introduces the mixer as an extension of the synthesizer, in that the channel controls are used to add or subtract a layer as needed, or to alter the effects depths to either layer; and third, since each unit is an entire layer, it's very easy and enjoyable to go back and forth between them as you design bi-timbral patches.

Again, I don't have a Rev2, and it's hard to imagine having a better system than the one I presently have.  But I'd be interested to here your comments on all of this, especially since you seem to be an original thinker.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 04:05:13 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

LPF83

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2020, 03:20:07 PM »
I have thoroughly enjoyed your PEK/08 music through the years @SacredSynthesis.   Now that you have the Rev2, I hope you hold on to it!.. definitely think you'll create some awesome music with it.   

I appreciate the generous remarks, Creativespiral.  You've obviously made a tremendous contribition to the field of Prophet '08/Rev2 sound design, and I thank you for that. 

Unfortunately, I don't yet have a Rev2.  I'm waiting most anxiously for the next OS update and the report on it from others.  I don't plan on waiting forever, though.  There are plenty of used Prophet '08s available in mint condition, and they're looking better to me every day.  And I do value the criticims and concerns discussed in this thread.

Like yourself, I was deeply influenced by the Evolver experience.  About ten years ago, I used to make identical patches on the P'08 and the PEK; then I'd compare their ambient sonic character.  I'd play them, record them, and even trigger a sequence and sit back or walk around the room listening.  I couldn't figure out why the Evolver patches almost always sounded far richer to me.  At about the same time, Dave Smith somewhere commented that, if you want strings, go for the Prophet '08, but if you want bizarre and wild sound effects, go for the Poly Evolver.  I thought to myself, "No, I don't agree. The PEK is superb at lush strings and all those gorgeous classic pads."  My point is, I could hardly believe that it all came down to a stereo image, but it's true.  In synthesisis, especially in the domain of large-scale polyphonic patches, there is no comparing a patch in stereo to a patch in mono. 

When I translated this knowledge to the Prophet '08 by linking keyboard and module units - and not to expand the number of voices, but to double and split idential sounds to opposite channels - then my P'08 patches suddenly matched or surpassed the same sounds on the PEK.

My method is laughably simple to some of you, I know: simply pan each unit at an analog mixer.  Others have devised different methods of achieving the same result, but I still prefer this one for several reasons.  First, it's expensive - yes - but very simple to set up and doesn't cost an LFO; second, it introduces the mixer as an extension of the synthesizer, in that the channel controls are used to add or subtract a layer as needed, or to alter the effects depths to either layer; and third, since each unit is an entire layer, it's very easy and enjoyable to go back and forth between them as you design bi-timbral patches.

Again, I don't have a Rev2, and it's hard to imagine having a better system than the one I presently have.  But I'd be interested to here your comments on all of this, especially since you seem to be an original thinker.

I'm more of a melody man and I don't have a fraction of the synthesis understanding/talent Creativespiral has, but when I read your post I can't help but think you'd really adore a 16-voice Rev2, for the ease of that pan layer A-Left/B-Right sound if nothing else.  It's true that when designing the fundamental qualities of a sound, the P6 and OB-6 are quicker-to-goal, but it's that layer workflow of the Rev2 that makes it indispensable IMHO.  Just dialing in that synth pad or string sound I want, then copy to layer B, then put sound with a pluck transient on layer A... instant magic.. and with long release times...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 04:39:17 PM by LPF83 »

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2020, 04:41:14 PM »
Yes, the doubled number of voices would be nice, as would be the improved keybed.  But the Prophet '08 copies layers, too, and I generally don't really need that ability, due to the way I design.  But I'm certainly open to synthesizer trials.

Thanks for the advice, LPF83.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 04:53:50 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

LPF83

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2020, 04:45:34 PM »
Yes, the doubled number of voices would be nice, as would be the improved keybed.  But the Prophet '08 copies layers, too, and I generally don't really need that ability, due to the way I design.  But I'm certainly open to synthesizer trials.

Oh I see -- I didn't realize that when I read your post (never having owned an '08), I thought you were referring to using 2 synths with same sound to get the stereo effect.  5 note chords minimum are important to the sound I need from a poly, so as you said the 8 voices of the '08 would be too limiting for me to layer it.  The Minilogue XD is the only 4-voice synth I own (and will probably be the only one), and it's use is primarily for textures, bleepy arps, mono lead sounds etc.

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2020, 04:56:00 PM »
I thought you were referring to using 2 synths with same sound to get the stereo effect. 

I am referring to that, as well as programming different sounds on each unit.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Jason

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  • 128
    • Bandmix
Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2020, 05:19:50 PM »
Hope your finger feels better, dude! I did jiu-jitsu / judo for 8 years... many finger and shoulder injuries ;) ... but I do credit it with saving my life in a downhill mountain biking accident - went over the handlebars at high speed, head first toward rocky ground, and instinctually rolled it into standing position... tore up my hand, arm and back pretty bad, but survived to ride down to urgent care.

What a horrible accident! I may PM you about jiu-jitsu, as I feel like I may be done with it, and I'm still in conflict about it. I've been training in martial arts for the last 17 years, but unfortunately most of it was in a traditional art... Only a bit over three years in jiu-jitsu. I'm in my early '50's, and some of the injuries seem like they may be permanent. I haven't trained since before the quarantining started, and that has given me a lot more time for music.

Sacred Synthesis- Regarding the OS, even as an early user I didn't noticed most of the glitches, nor the changes with different OS updates. There were a few features I wanted, which were later added, and that all seemed like a bonus. I use analog hardware in a pretty traditional way and haven't spent a lot of time playing with sequencers. I've used MIDI regularly since the mid-'80's but mainly for simple connections. I can't help but think that you would be among the users who love the improvements and never personally notice the glitches that some people find.


Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2020, 10:16:11 PM »
What a horrible accident! I may PM you about jiu-jitsu, as I feel like I may be done with it, and I'm still in conflict about it. I've been training in martial arts for the last 17 years, but unfortunately most of it was in a traditional art... Only a bit over three years in jiu-jitsu. I'm in my early '50's, and some of the injuries seem like they may be permanent. I haven't trained since before the quarantining started, and that has given me a lot more time for music.

I actually stopped practicing about 15yrs ago... been a while.     I'm in my mid 40s now... a sad, fragile old man ;)  Just the thought of randori makes me ache.   Respect to you for going into 50s!..  It's definitely tough on the body though.   My sensei was in his 50s when I was practicing... he had all sorts of knee and back issues after years of competition and teaching.

I appreciate the generous remarks, Creativespiral.  You've obviously made a tremendous contribition to the field of Prophet '08/Rev2 sound design, and I thank you for that. 

Unfortunately, I don't yet have a Rev2.  I'm waiting most anxiously for the next OS update and the reports on it from others.  I don't plan on waiting forever, though.  There are plenty of used Prophet '08s available in mint condition, and they're looking better to me every day.  And I do value the criticims and concerns discussed in this thread.

Like yourself, I was deeply influenced by the Evolver experience.  About ten years ago, I used to make identical patches on the P'08 and the PEK; then I'd compare their ambient sonic character.  I'd play them, record them, and even trigger a sequence and sit back or walk around the room listening.  I couldn't figure out why the Evolver patches almost always sounded far richer to me.  At about the same time, Dave Smith somewhere commented that, if you want strings, go for the Prophet '08, but if you want bizarre and wild sound effects, go for the Poly Evolver.  I thought to myself, "No, I don't agree. The PEK is superb at lush strings and all those gorgeous classic pads."  My point is, I could hardly believe that it all came down to a stereo image, but it's true.  In synthesisis, especially in the domain of large-scale polyphonic patches, there is no comparing a patch in stereo to a patch in mono. 

When I translated this knowledge to the Prophet '08 by linking keyboard and module units - and not to expand the number of voices, but to double and split idential sounds to opposite channels - then my P'08 patches suddenly matched or surpassed the same sounds on the PEK.

My method is laughably simple to some of you, I know: simply pan each unit at an analog mixer.  Others have devised different methods of achieving the same result, but I still prefer this one for several reasons.  First, it's expensive - yes - but very simple to set up and doesn't cost an LFO; second, it introduces the mixer as an extension of the synthesizer, in that the channel controls are used to add or subtract a layer as needed, or to alter the effects depths to either layer; and third, since each unit is an entire layer, it's very easy and enjoyable to go back and forth between them as you design bi-timbral patches.

Again, I don't have a Rev2, and it's hard to imagine having a better system than the one I presently have.  But I'd be interested to here your comments on all of this, especially since you seem to be an original thinker.

Yeah, seems like we definitely have similar sound design inclinations.  Thanks to the Evolver for opening that doorway!..  The binaural / stereo routing is something that many people gloss over, but it creates such huge and beautiful sounds.   Once you've experimented with it, it's easy to become addicted.   Ultimately, it's creating an effect like double tracking.   In recording studios, guitar parts (and synth parts) are very often double tracked for song mixes... for both rhythm and lead parts... (usually not for bass)     

With this technique, we're accomplishing the same end result of double tracking, without having to do a second pass recording... it's all done "in the box", in real time.   By hard panning left/right, it creates the two parts, and the small natural offsets of the oscillator fine tuning, filter and envelope precision create that natural chorusing / phasing.. that's what double tracking really is.   By emphasizing the differences between left/right with voice modeling, or just making micro adjustments to envelope ADR, tuning or cutoff, it just widens the stereo field and loosens the double track feel.    As you play in real time, you're outputting a the sound of a polished multi-track recording session.  Sounds so epic and beautiful :)

Regarding the Rev2... I misread... thought you got one.  Anyways, my take on your situation - the biggest upgrade from having two P08s is going to be the 8 mod slots per layer.  With two P08s you've only got half that amount of mod capability.  For me, I use all eight slots often, along with the separate pressure, velocity, mod wheel slots.  You can just expand upon the complexity of the sound, the animation, and the fine tuning of sounds up and down the keybed.   I use the Note Number modulator on virtually every patch (often as a multiplexed through slot) that allows fine tuning of bass vs treble tones.  And if you want to get into voice modeling, having eight mod slots per layer is vital.   So, yeah, I'd say the biggest gain you're going to see is double the mod slots per layer.   

Beyond the mod slots, having the effects per layer is nice to add a little polish direct in unit, or achieve some unique sound shaping with the ability to modulate parameters from key pressure, mod wheel, etc.   Also, you might get some usage with the sub-oscillator per layer as well.  (an extra square osc per layer, one octave beneath osc1)   And there may be a convenience to being able to do it all within a single unit with layer panning / stacking... although, you've got your mixer / dual unit paradigm, so the end result is the same... but yeah, might just be a bit more convenient.    And finally, the keybed is great on the Rev2.  If I didn't have a separate KK s61 mk2, I would use the Rev2 as my master keyboard for all various desktop, rack units and computer.    The Rev2 keybed is really nice feeling, with good aftertouch sensitivity.   

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2 - Sound Sets and Patch Banks - Now Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/