Rev2, the Neverending Story

maxter

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Rev2, the Neverending Story
« on: July 11, 2020, 05:55:16 PM »
Ugh... So, after trying out the REVfield patches yesterday, tonight I thought I'd hook the Rev2 up to the rest of my setup. But as usual, I ran into problems... THIS time with the Rev2 being completely off by 7 semitones. So instead of making music, I end up struggling with "technical difficulties" as usual, which kind of kills the inspiration. I suppose I get more fed up each time, so I'll be calling it the "Neverending Story" from now on. Maybe there will be an end to it, so that I can spend my time with IT, instead of this forum, but until then...

I was writing the above while reinstalling the latest OS. I then calibrated the oscs etc, it huuuuung up twice (once before reinstalling the OS, and once after), I then recalled the patented Razmo-calibration routine...  ::) and finally it's in tune again. Maybe Razmos calibration routine should be pinned to the top of the forum for other users who encounter similar problems? I know he has kindly helped a lot of users with various problems, by using his method of calibration.

I know this is not very constructive criticism, but may it ease my growing frustration, I'm really losing patience with it... getting increasingly fed up. IF not for all the bugs and problems, it'd probably be my favourite synth ever. IF some of the feature requests would be implemented on top of that, it most certainly will be. I'm even having a déjà-vu moment writing that sentence...

And so went yet another evening with the Neverending Story...  :(

End of rant
The Way the Truth and the Life

LPF83

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 07:11:24 PM »
Ugh... So, after trying out the REVfield patches yesterday, tonight I thought I'd hook the Rev2 up to the rest of my setup. But as usual, I ran into problems... THIS time with the Rev2 being completely off by 7 semitones. So instead of making music, I end up struggling with "technical difficulties" as usual, which kind of kills the inspiration. I suppose I get more fed up each time, so I'll be calling it the "Neverending Story" from now on. Maybe there will be an end to it, so that I can spend my time with IT, instead of this forum, but until then...

I was writing the above while reinstalling the latest OS. I then calibrated the oscs etc, it huuuuung up twice (once before reinstalling the OS, and once after), I then recalled the patented Razmo-calibration routine...  ::) and finally it's in tune again. Maybe Razmos calibration routine should be pinned to the top of the forum for other users who encounter similar problems? I know he has kindly helped a lot of users with various problems, by using his method of calibration.

I know this is not very constructive criticism, but may it ease my growing frustration, I'm really losing patience with it... getting increasingly fed up. IF not for all the bugs and problems, it'd probably be my favourite synth ever. IF some of the feature requests would be implemented on top of that, it most certainly will be. I'm even having a déjà-vu moment writing that sentence...

And so went yet another evening with the Neverending Story...  :(

End of rant

Interesting.  My OB6 has a mind of its own when it comes to tuning -- I usually just recalibrate, make small adjustments to global tuning, and enjoy the subtle variation as "warmth".  Do you have an early Rev2 unit?  Are there known issues with early ones?  Mine is of the newer ones if the Sequential logo instead of DSI is an indicator.

Do you maintain a steady temperature and humidity in your synth room?  It can hot this time of year in some areas.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

maxter

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 07:50:02 PM »
Yeah, I have an early unit, which I bought second hand within a year of its release. The Sequential logo is definitely a good indicator of a later one.

It's quite weird, I've actually had some "special" issues I don't know of anyone else having. One particular OS made mine offset all NRPNs by some number, so external editors didn't work. I tried like crazy, downdating and updating between differents OS's, calibrating, resetting, etc, but nothing fixed it. Then, with the next OS update, it went back to normal. I even downdated again to see if the problem persisted with the older OS, and it did. Yet noone else reportedly had this problem with that OS...  :o I think what's lacking from the manual is how to exorcise it properly...

Yes, I do have steady temperature and humidity. Anyway thanks for the input!
The Way the Truth and the Life

shiihs

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2020, 08:57:14 AM »
I'm guess I'm disappointed that the most recent OS update by now is 1.5 years old. Not that Rev2 is completely unusable because of this, but it is far from bug-free at this point (e.g. at least one parameter change is not transmitted over nrpn; some notes from the sequencer are not present in the sysex msgs etc) and - from my point of view as customer - this was an expensive toy to be abandoned so quickly.

It would appear sequential spends most of its time coming up with new synths, and not enough time with maintaining their existing offerings. I guess it's not easy to survive as a company if you cannot generate a steady income from sales (which indeed may require a constant stream of new models), but if your reputation goes down because of flaky features, that's also not good for future sales. And having too many models to maintain also doesn't make it easier to maintain all of them. I don't want to sound too critical but it would be better if the older models occasionally got some love.

Ugh... So, after trying out the REVfield patches yesterday, tonight I thought I'd hook the Rev2 up to the rest of my setup. But as usual, I ran into problems... THIS time with the Rev2 being completely off by 7 semitones. So instead of making music, I end up struggling with "technical difficulties" as usual, which kind of kills the inspiration. I suppose I get more fed up each time, so I'll be calling it the "Neverending Story" from now on. Maybe there will be an end to it, so that I can spend my time with IT, instead of this forum, but until then...

I was writing the above while reinstalling the latest OS. I then calibrated the oscs etc, it huuuuung up twice (once before reinstalling the OS, and once after), I then recalled the patented Razmo-calibration routine...  ::) and finally it's in tune again. Maybe Razmos calibration routine should be pinned to the top of the forum for other users who encounter similar problems? I know he has kindly helped a lot of users with various problems, by using his method of calibration.

I know this is not very constructive criticism, but may it ease my growing frustration, I'm really losing patience with it... getting increasingly fed up. IF not for all the bugs and problems, it'd probably be my favourite synth ever. IF some of the feature requests would be implemented on top of that, it most certainly will be. I'm even having a déjà-vu moment writing that sentence...

And so went yet another evening with the Neverending Story...  :(

End of rant
--
gear: prophet rev2 16 voice, kawai NV10, casio wk-7600, Roland Integra-7, supercollider, ardour

links:

https://www.youtube.com/stefaanhimpe
https://soundcloud.com/stefaanhimpe
https://technogems.blogspot.com
https://a-touch-of-music.blogspot.com/

LPF83

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2020, 09:58:42 AM »
I'm guess I'm disappointed that the most recent OS update by now is 1.5 years old. Not that Rev2 is completely unusable because of this, but it is far from bug-free at this point (e.g. at least one parameter change is not transmitted over nrpn; some notes from the sequencer are not present in the sysex msgs etc) and - from my point of view as customer - this was an expensive toy to be abandoned so quickly.

It would appear sequential spends most of its time coming up with new synths, and not enough time with maintaining their existing offerings. I guess it's not easy to survive as a company if you cannot generate a steady income from sales (which indeed may require a constant stream of new models), but if your reputation goes down because of flaky features, that's also not good for future sales. And having too many models to maintain also doesn't make it easier to maintain all of them. I don't want to sound too critical but it would be better if the older models occasionally got some love.

Ugh... So, after trying out the REVfield patches yesterday, tonight I thought I'd hook the Rev2 up to the rest of my setup. But as usual, I ran into problems... THIS time with the Rev2 being completely off by 7 semitones. So instead of making music, I end up struggling with "technical difficulties" as usual, which kind of kills the inspiration. I suppose I get more fed up each time, so I'll be calling it the "Neverending Story" from now on. Maybe there will be an end to it, so that I can spend my time with IT, instead of this forum, but until then...

I was writing the above while reinstalling the latest OS. I then calibrated the oscs etc, it huuuuung up twice (once before reinstalling the OS, and once after), I then recalled the patented Razmo-calibration routine...  ::) and finally it's in tune again. Maybe Razmos calibration routine should be pinned to the top of the forum for other users who encounter similar problems? I know he has kindly helped a lot of users with various problems, by using his method of calibration.

I know this is not very constructive criticism, but may it ease my growing frustration, I'm really losing patience with it... getting increasingly fed up. IF not for all the bugs and problems, it'd probably be my favourite synth ever. IF some of the feature requests would be implemented on top of that, it most certainly will be. I'm even having a déjà-vu moment writing that sentence...

And so went yet another evening with the Neverending Story...  :(

End of rant

I can only imagine what it must be like to be a hardware synth designer these days.  Modern software has changed the expectation that the synth should be constantly updated to do things well beyond what it was originally designed to do, and that the company should keep pouring development money into a product to make it support integration with other vendor's products and eating the loss.

Back in the day, if you made a great sounding instrument, some band would eventually use it, and once it had been seen on stage and "validated" as being capable of producing great music, most didn't question whether they wanted one or not :)...  Nobody came along in the days of the Prophet 5 and said "Hey Dave, Native Instruments just released some new gizmo, are you going to add support for that to all your product line"?

Note, I'm not supporting buggy software releases - synths should do what they are designed to do, they should be well tested and the show stopping bugs fixed.  I'm just not convinced that there should be an expectation that a musical instrument should be updated later, free of charge, to do things it wasn't originally sold as being able to do (and I've seen similar requests in some threads).

In terms of my own Rev2, I may have gotten lucky because while I felt it was a "buggy" synth when I first got it, most of the warts turned out to be a matter of my own overcoming of the learning curve.
Prophet 10, OB-X8m, Prophet 6, OB-6, 3rd Wave, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Pro 2, Korg Polysix, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase/Ableton/Akai MPC

jok3r

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2020, 02:43:20 AM »
It seems to me, a lot of the bugs of the Rev2 are somehow related to its midi implementation, since everytime I read about bugs in this forum it has todo with midi or sequencing/clock stuff.

I mainly use the Rev2 as an instrument on stage in the classical "band keyboarder" way. No sequencing, a little bit of arpeggios, everything triggered by my fingers in time on the keys. The only midi feature I'm using are program changes that I send from my Kronos. I didn't have a problem with my unit in two years of live shows. Everything works absolutely fine.

Prophet Rev2, Moog Matriarch, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

shiihs

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2020, 05:16:34 AM »
It seems to me, a lot of the bugs of the Rev2 are somehow related to its midi implementation, since everytime I read about bugs in this forum it has todo with midi or sequencing/clock stuff.

And to say that Dave Smith is one of the inventors of MIDI...
--
gear: prophet rev2 16 voice, kawai NV10, casio wk-7600, Roland Integra-7, supercollider, ardour

links:

https://www.youtube.com/stefaanhimpe
https://soundcloud.com/stefaanhimpe
https://technogems.blogspot.com
https://a-touch-of-music.blogspot.com/

jg666

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2020, 10:27:18 AM »
I've posted this on another thread but wondered if someone on here could check this out on their Rev2 please?

This is regarding F1 P24

I’ve noticed just now that on this patch the octave from middle C seems to play differently to all the other keys. They seem quieter for want of a better description. Does anyone else notice this? so just play single keys from below middle C and through the middle C octave and beyond, it's just the one octave on mine that sounds different. I haven't noticed this on any other patches.
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Kosmikos

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2020, 02:30:16 PM »
I've posted this on another thread but wondered if someone on here could check this out on their Rev2 please?

This is regarding F1 P24

I’ve noticed just now that on this patch the octave from middle C seems to play differently to all the other keys. They seem quieter for want of a better description. Does anyone else notice this? so just play single keys from below middle C and through the middle C octave and beyond, it's just the one octave on mine that sounds different. I haven't noticed this on any other patches.
Intellect Lead? Weird. I couldn’t hear any difference between all octaves, more specifically from C5 to B5 compared to above and below. It seems to play at the same level on my rev2-16.

maxter

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2020, 10:31:40 AM »
I don't notice a difference in volume on mine either, on F1 P24.

What OS are you using? I'm asking because when I tried the BETA 1.9-something I got a similar problem, where at a certain detune amount would make an octave or so to be quieter. The sound was muffled on those notes as well, like the difference between a saw and a triangle wave, so it didn't come from the amp section. Very strange.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2020, 10:43:37 AM »
For some REV2 owners to have pitch tuning issues is a bit surprising to me, since this is a DCO synth, with digital pitch control using digital timers, and not analog voltages and current which can be greatly affected by many things like temperature, power supply rails, electromagnetic interferences, etc etc. Maybe it's a Pitch Bend wheel potentiometer issue?

My 16 voice REV2 has always been stable (tuning wise) and, aside from the known bugs and missing features, is pretty reliable so far (after DSI finally managed to get the encoders to work right at one point).

My OB6 tuning instability however, that's another story. Pretty darn unreliable if not in perfect room conditions. And even then, it will sometimes go slightly out of tune for no apparent reason. Oscillators recalibration will bring it back, but that takes a little time. Not ideal in live situations. 
Oberheim OB-X8, Minimoog D (vintage), OB6 (Desktop), Prophet REV2 (16V), VC340

jg666

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2020, 12:01:06 PM »
With my issue with F1 P24, it’s like that octave has a lower cutoff value so sounds less bright. Also if I press key within that octave and use the mod wheel, it becomes brighter once it gets past the last note in that octave  hope that makes sense?
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

maxter

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2020, 01:13:46 PM »
Sounds similar to what I experienced with OS 1.9.0 Beta

What OS are you using?
The Way the Truth and the Life

jg666

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2020, 01:39:45 PM »
I’m on the latest version posted in these forums for my Rev2
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2020, 02:15:29 PM »
This is a depressing thread, alright.  I would not have the patience with an instrument that you guys have.  My policy is that the Rev2 will get one, and only one, chance.  When the next and presumably final Rev2 OS update is released, I will give it a try.  But if I have the many problems with the features I need that you guys are having with the features you need, then the instrument will be returned in no time.  This is why I'll buy a Rev2 only on the condition that I still have my trusty old Prophet '08.  The old girl may not offer sufficient capabilities for most of you, but she sure works well and sounds great.  You ought to consider a turn back to the basics to spare yourselves the grief.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 02:17:30 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

jok3r

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2020, 02:23:23 PM »
This is a depressing thread, alright.  I would not have the patience with an instrument that you guys have.  My policy is that the Rev2 will get one, and only one, chance.  When the next and presumably final Rev2 OS update is released, I will give it a try.  But if I have the many problems with the features I need that you guys are having with the features you need, then the instrument will be returned in no time.  This is why I'll buy a Rev2 only on the condition that I still have my trusty old Prophet '08.  The old girl may not offer sufficient capabilities for most of you, but she sure works well and sounds great.  You ought to consider a turn back to the basics to spare yourselves the grief.

From what I read in this forum and listening to your music, I would assume you are more the "player" type of synthesist, than the "sequencer/daw" type. I would guess you won't have any problems with the Rev2, if you only play it with your fingers. That is my experience so far.
Prophet Rev2, Moog Matriarch, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2020, 02:32:24 PM »
Yes, you're correct.  But all the features should work, whether I intend to use them or not.  Yet I do tend to experiment more deeply with features on the odd day, even though they may not be used in a recording.  Besides, one day the instrument will probably be sold to someone else.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 02:35:49 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

maxter

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2020, 04:35:57 PM »
This is a depressing thread, alright.  I would not have the patience with an instrument that you guys have.  My policy is that the Rev2 will get one, and only one, chance.  When the next and presumably final Rev2 OS update is released, I will give it a try.  But if I have the many problems with the features I need that you guys are having with the features you need, then the instrument will be returned in no time.  This is why I'll buy a Rev2 only on the condition that I still have my trusty old Prophet '08.  The old girl may not offer sufficient capabilities for most of you, but she sure works well and sounds great.  You ought to consider a turn back to the basics to spare yourselves the grief.

I wish I had done likewise, and kept the Prophet '08.
The Way the Truth and the Life

maxter

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Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2020, 04:56:41 PM »

I can only imagine what it must be like to be a hardware synth designer these days.  Modern software has changed the expectation that the synth should be constantly updated to do things well beyond what it was originally designed to do, and that the company should keep pouring development money into a product to make it support integration with other vendor's products and eating the loss.

Back in the day, if you made a great sounding instrument, some band would eventually use it, and once it had been seen on stage and "validated" as being capable of producing great music, most didn't question whether they wanted one or not :)...  Nobody came along in the days of the Prophet 5 and said "Hey Dave, Native Instruments just released some new gizmo, are you going to add support for that to all your product line"?

Note, I'm not supporting buggy software releases - synths should do what they are designed to do, they should be well tested and the show stopping bugs fixed.  I'm just not convinced that there should be an expectation that a musical instrument should be updated later, free of charge, to do things it wasn't originally sold as being able to do (and I've seen similar requests in some threads).

In terms of my own Rev2, I may have gotten lucky because while I felt it was a "buggy" synth when I first got it, most of the warts turned out to be a matter of my own overcoming of the learning curve.

I don't expect a product to be constantly or continually updated, I just expect it to deliver what it's supposed to.

"I'm just not convinced that there should be an expectation that a musical instrument should be updated later, free of charge, to do things it wasn't originally sold as being able to do (and I've seen similar requests in some threads)."
I agree about expectations. And I think I have requested one or two features in that request thread... However, I see two sides to it; the more features and the better they actually work, is good marketing, which makes for more sales. It can also be thought of as a way of rolling out a product prematurely to have the customers do the beta-testing for free, roughly speaking, to keep costs down. It's not uncommon. I expected this, because of the competitive price of the Rev2, so I had that in consideration when getting it... I don't have a problem with this if the product is finished to fulfill its original claims of function, but I do expect the OS to be updated to do just that sooner than later, at the very least... If some functions are added, it's a win-win situation imo.
The Way the Truth and the Life

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Rev2, the Neverending Story
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2020, 06:49:27 PM »
This is a depressing thread, alright.  I would not have the patience with an instrument that you guys have.  My policy is that the Rev2 will get one, and only one, chance.  When the next and presumably final Rev2 OS update is released, I will give it a try.  But if I have the many problems with the features I need that you guys are having with the features you need, then the instrument will be returned in no time.  This is why I'll buy a Rev2 only on the condition that I still have my trusty old Prophet '08.  The old girl may not offer sufficient capabilities for most of you, but she sure works well and sounds great.  You ought to consider a turn back to the basics to spare yourselves the grief.

I wish I had done likewise, and kept the Prophet '08.

Ug.  It pains me to read of that - the regret.  I, too, sold a P'08, and yes, I regret it. 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 10:51:27 AM by Sacred Synthesis »