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Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues

Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« on: July 02, 2020, 01:26:07 PM »
Hi folks - Have had my Pro 3 for a few weeks and have been loving the sound of it, but midi timing issues keep me scratching my head.

My setup consists of a Pioneer SP16 sequencer and a handful of synths hooked up via MIDI to the machine. The problem is the MIDI clock on my Pro 3 seems to drift so badly compared to my other, modern synths. As an example, I will have a simple 8th note arp on my Pro 3 at 110bpm, and when I check the Pro 3 arp clock, it drifts from 109 - 112 and sounds extremely drunk. There's no swing on the patch and I've tried to optimize my settings.

I also have a Prophet 6 and a Novation Summit hooked up to the SP16. Both have arps, and when they're playing the same 100 bpm 8th note arp, both machines vary around 1bpm from what's being sent by my sequencer - which is a massive difference from the 109 - 112 variance with the Pro 3.

Any ideas?

Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 01:49:06 PM »
Under GLOBAL > MIDI, there's a setting called ARP BEAT SYNC.   Are you using that?   Also, are you running the latest O.S.?  1.0.3.45?

If you set ARP BEAT SYNC to QUANTIZE, it locks in with incoming clock signal.   I often use the Pro 3, set to follow the TR8S clock and it stays in time perfectly.   For complex phrases with lots of changes, the arp quantize is very helpful for keeping in time.  I use it in most cases, unless I'm trying to establish a specific timed groove with drums.

I do wish there was a manual timing offset capability for the arp/seq, where you could adjust the quantization sync point forward or backward by small amount...  It's nice to be able to have the quantization/lock to stay in time, but have the ability to adjust the feel of the groove by slightly moving the beats in juxtaposition with drums or other sequenced instruments.

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 01:55:07 PM »
Thanks for the response. Yep, I've tried Arp Sync Beat - off or on the Pro 3 still drifts from 109 - 112bpm on a 110 clock.

Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 02:13:11 PM »
Strange.  Mine stays locked in.   I just held an arpeggio and let it the Pro3 follow the TR8S clock / drum sequence, and just let it run for dozens of bars (several minutes), and it's perfectly locked with the TR8S drums... I'm not noticing any drift. 

Wondering - if you turn off the ARP Quantize, and just set your sequencer and Pro3 to the same BPM manually, does it stay locked in time that way?

Also, how are you measuring bpm drift?   Are you saying that you have clock coming in to the Pro 3, and then clock going out to another instrument/effect, and you're measuring it there?    Maybe try using the MIDI Thru port instead of MIDI Out if that's the case?  Not sure.   

I know MIDI timing issues can be hard to debug sometimes... I've had issues through the years with other instruments... feel your pain. 

Sequential Pro 3 and Rev 2, Deepmind, PolyBrute - Sound Sets, Patch Banks - Available on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/sounddesign/

Pym

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Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2020, 04:46:56 PM »
Are you hearing the drift or seeing the number drift? Ignore the number, focus on whether it is actually playing back at a different rate. The number may not correspond exactly due to prioritizing playback over numerical bpm calculation

Thanks for the response. Yep, I've tried Arp Sync Beat - off or on the Pro 3 still drifts from 109 - 112bpm on a 110 clock.
Sequential

Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2020, 07:24:48 AM »
Are you hearing the drift or seeing the number drift? Ignore the number, focus on whether it is actually playing back at a different rate. The number may not correspond exactly due to prioritizing playback over numerical bpm calculation

Thanks for the response. Yep, I've tried Arp Sync Beat - off or on the Pro 3 still drifts from 109 - 112bpm on a 110 clock.

Good point. Yes, it is audibly out of sync, too. I think in my first post I mentioned it sounds like it has a lot of swing on the patch, but it doesn't

Pym

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Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2020, 12:22:03 PM »
Something in your setup is causing the clock lag, I'd be REALLY surprised if it's the Pro3. Try replacing the pro3 in the chain, control a different synth and see if it drifts as well. My guess is it will

Are you hearing the drift or seeing the number drift? Ignore the number, focus on whether it is actually playing back at a different rate. The number may not correspond exactly due to prioritizing playback over numerical bpm calculation

Thanks for the response. Yep, I've tried Arp Sync Beat - off or on the Pro 3 still drifts from 109 - 112bpm on a 110 clock.

Good point. Yes, it is audibly out of sync, too. I think in my first post I mentioned it sounds like it has a lot of swing on the patch, but it doesn't
Sequential

Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2020, 04:31:16 PM »
Something in your setup is causing the clock lag, I'd be REALLY surprised if it's the Pro3. Try replacing the pro3 in the chain, control a different synth and see if it drifts as well. My guess is it will

Are you hearing the drift or seeing the number drift? Ignore the number, focus on whether it is actually playing back at a different rate. The number may not correspond exactly due to prioritizing playback over numerical bpm calculation

Thanks for the response. Yep, I've tried Arp Sync Beat - off or on the Pro 3 still drifts from 109 - 112bpm on a 110 clock.

Good point. Yes, it is audibly out of sync, too. I think in my first post I mentioned it sounds like it has a lot of swing on the patch, but it doesn't

Ok, did some troubleshooting and I feel a bit dumb. I believe it's because I had the Pro 3 connected via a MIDI thru port from another synth (I didn't realize it was originally daisy-chained). I hooked the Pro 3 straight up to my sequencer and the clock drift seems to have improved somewhat.

I guess the daisy-chained MIDI routing added enough latency to make the arp unusable.

Pym

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Re: Arpeggiator Midi Sync Timing Issues
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2020, 11:29:13 AM »
You shouldn't feel dumb, that's how we learn! The fact that you were able to troubleshoot it, figure out the culprit and fix it, means you should feel pretty damn proud! Glad it's all figured out!

Technology ain't easy

Something in your setup is causing the clock lag, I'd be REALLY surprised if it's the Pro3. Try replacing the pro3 in the chain, control a different synth and see if it drifts as well. My guess is it will

Are you hearing the drift or seeing the number drift? Ignore the number, focus on whether it is actually playing back at a different rate. The number may not correspond exactly due to prioritizing playback over numerical bpm calculation

Thanks for the response. Yep, I've tried Arp Sync Beat - off or on the Pro 3 still drifts from 109 - 112bpm on a 110 clock.

Good point. Yes, it is audibly out of sync, too. I think in my first post I mentioned it sounds like it has a lot of swing on the patch, but it doesn't

Ok, did some troubleshooting and I feel a bit dumb. I believe it's because I had the Pro 3 connected via a MIDI thru port from another synth (I didn't realize it was originally daisy-chained). I hooked the Pro 3 straight up to my sequencer and the clock drift seems to have improved somewhat.

I guess the daisy-chained MIDI routing added enough latency to make the arp unusable.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 11:31:12 AM by Pym »
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