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Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?

Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« on: March 08, 2020, 09:35:14 AM »
Hi, new to the forum... had my P12 for a long time but never really found my place with it.

I'm working on a particular project now where more 'classic' Prophet sounds would be very fitting.

Short of swapping/selling for a Prophet 6 (unlikely), has anyone made a set of Prophet 5/6 sounds for the P12?

Is there a comprehensive list of all available Prophet sound banks anywhere for reference?

Thanks!

Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2020, 07:40:50 AM »
In my opinion, the Prophet 12 and Prophet 5/6 have very different sounds. If you use a computer for music, I recommend downloading the U-he Repro 5 plugin to see if that satisfies you. It is so close to the Prophet 5 sound that I've considered just selling my Prophet 6 several times.

https://u-he.com/products/repro/
Prophet 12 module, Pro 2, Prophet 6, Digitone, Octatrack, Analog Rytm Mk2, LinnStrument

Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2020, 11:46:24 AM »
In my opinion, the Prophet 12 and Prophet 5/6 have very different sounds. If you use a computer for music, I recommend downloading the U-he Repro 5 plugin to see if that satisfies you. It is so close to the Prophet 5 sound that I've considered just selling my Prophet 6 several times.

https://u-he.com/products/repro/

Thanks, yes I already tried the U-he demo and it does sound very good (although many presets are covered in FX). That said I really prefer being hands on physical synths like this, it's a different workflow.

Curious that the P12 wouldn't be able to replicate the P6 in many ways as the signal path isn't too dissimilar.

If you anyone wants to sell/swap a P12 for a P6 I'm all ears..........

Cheers!

Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2020, 12:16:31 PM »
I've tried to mimmick several different synths with the P12, it's insanely versatile and can get in the ballpark of alot of synth sounds for practical use. Obviously not for nitpicky AB testing :) (I'm also saving up for a P6 atm). And don't forget that the P12 is already mostly analog, it's just the OSC's mainly that's digital, but they do mimmick analog oscs already, take a look in an oscillioscope.

First of all, there's several forum posts out there on how to make the P12 sound as analog as possible, including things like using the osc slop, gainstaging the oscs lower and then makeup with the drive knob, introducing extra subtle slop via a slow random LFO, adding some very slight glue effect with the distortion, etc. Also by nerding out on how a particular synth guides it's users to tend to make certain sounds on it, you can get alot closer to that synths character. After listening to alot of P6 demos and knowing the interface and features I've done some specific sounds that's probably my best patches on the P12, just having something to aim for helps alot.

For the P6 sounds I really like, I find that alot of the key is to first try to do as much as you can with the OSC's, try to introduce natural analog sounding movement between osc 1 and 2 (only using the waveforms present in P6) and by manipulating the PWM with LFO (and don't forget regular osc detune to make them move against eachother). Also use all the other tricks for analog style patches such as slop and more. Once the oscs by themselves shine, that's when I go for the filter, and I find that alot of P6 patches make use of the HP filter, so a touch of that helps alot, and some nice filter env can do alot. Personally I like to have super short to zero release time on my VCA, but by adding more of a tail to the sound, that helps to make it sound a little more sloppy and analog. Similarly you can actually mimmick a limited slice of OB6 flavour by using the 2 pole lowpass with high resonance (obviously it wont get all the way there, but for practical use you can get into the ballpark, obviously missing out on most of it by not having access to the filter mod). A final trick is to introduce a faster but still subtle vibrato to one or both of the oscs, and play around with the waveform, I've found that strangely that can do alot. Also just utilizing the mod wheel the right way and making the vibrato sound good does alot.

By the way, if you make the patch stacked but make part B silent, you'll get 6 voices instead of 12, meaning you'll probably get similar voice stealing and glides that you'll get on the P6.

Finally, you can get the delay to kind of almost sound like a spring reverb (use the low feedback mode), and you can also make it do flangeing and chorusing, so that's something to play with to add some final sweetening, but I usually go for a dry sound or a fairly subtle reverb style delay patch.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 12:28:28 PM by mrj1nx »

Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2020, 01:48:37 AM »
Thanks yes some interesting guides.

I think ultimately the workflow difference between the P6 and P12 is the P6 is the more immediate 'bread and butter' synth (the Fender Strat/Twin option when you just need those classic sounds). The P12 is obviously a more versatile beast but takes more work to get where you want to be (the double necked guitar with effects pedals!).

I also think you can get classic Prophet sounds out of the P12 but need programming from the ground up. That's why I had wondered if anyone had made such a set for ease - I'd pay for that! Kinda need a P5/6 to hand to replicate those sounds ideally.

Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2020, 01:22:16 PM »
Funny that you mentioned it, I've always thought of the Prophet 6 as the Stratocaster of synths. I just made another patch using the above mentioned tricks and it actually sounded alot like a Prophet 6 brassy style patch. Adding some attack to the filter env can make a huge difference, and having a bit of a sloppy tail on the VCA as mentioned does alot too. Almost makes me think I wont need a Prophet 6. But I'm also thinking the only way to truly know is to have one at home for a time and really get to know it. I've wanted to put together a patch lib for a while, I've made over 99, many of them are analog style bread and butter patches. The thing I'm stuck on is actually what sysex manager to use to name the patches and all of that. And my time is stretched so thin that I never get to it.

Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2020, 04:13:00 AM »
The common simple solution is to use SysExLibrarian: https://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2020, 03:55:13 PM »
In my opinion, the Prophet 12 and Prophet 5/6 have very different sounds. If you use a computer for music, I recommend downloading the U-he Repro 5 plugin to see if that satisfies you. It is so close to the Prophet 5 sound that I've considered just selling my Prophet 6 several times.

This surprises me to read.  I have Repro 5 (and pretty much all of the other "good" analog emulation virtuals), and all of them *can* sound good but all of them just seem to lack that little something extra that HW synths have.  With some tweaking I can easily slide Repro 5 into a mix and not be too embarassed about it, but it uses a lot of CPU just to sound about 85% as good.  And then there's the "feel" of the hardware, especially with Dave's instruments where the instrument feels truly musical and more than the sum of a bunch of knobs controlling specific values.
Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2020, 10:51:30 AM »
This surprises me to read.  I have Repro 5 (and pretty much all of the other "good" analog emulation virtuals), and all of them *can* sound good but all of them just seem to lack that little something extra that HW synths have.  With some tweaking I can easily slide Repro 5 into a mix and not be too embarassed about it, but it uses a lot of CPU just to sound about 85% as good.  And then there's the "feel" of the hardware, especially with Dave's instruments where the instrument feels truly musical and more than the sum of a bunch of knobs controlling specific values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFA_B6pP9AA is what convinced me to buy RePro (before I got my P6). I don't think the difference between that Prophet and Repro is likely more than what you'd get between two Prophets. However, I also found that Repro, when compared directly to my Mopho X4, sounds *very* similar. In fact, often a little better. Later, when I got the P6, I found that the P6's filter is very different and that those synths were similar mostly in features.

Repro does at least one thing I really wish the P6 did, though; it lets you mix waveforms in the way the Prophet can't. You can't have Tri, Square, and Saw all active at once on the P6, and you can't use multiple LFOs at once or mix in noise with another LFO shape.

Now that I have a P6,  I almost never use Repro, although I still like it a lot. My ancient iMac struggles to run multiple instances, so it's actually more convenient just to use the external hardware, which is not something you here very often :)

LPF83

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Re: Prophet 5 / 6 sound banks for Prophet 12?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2020, 03:29:55 PM »
I don't think the difference between that Prophet and Repro is likely more than what you'd get between two Prophets.

I believe the Prophet 5, from what I've read, has a bit more subdued filter envelope than the Prophet 6, so in that sense Repro might be able to more faithfully reproduce P5.  I can't say for sure, having never owned a P5.

I think Repro is a great sounding soft synth (in terms of analog emulations I'd say one of the best), but to my ears all softsynths sound flatter than good hardware by default.  With tweaking they CAN sound great, but they just lack something.  They can still add a lot of bang for the buck, but I've found that I get my best results when I use hardware instruments and save my CPU for FX processing (which I would otherwise need a lot of outboard gear to replace).  Most synth enthusiasts will agree that the DCO vs VCO argument is largely moot, but I don't think I've heard much debate that a digital filter cannot match a VCF in its dynamics.  At the end of the day there is no such thing as a VCF on a soft synth, and IMHO it's the filter where the magic happens.

I noticed when I take Kazrog True Iron (Transformer emulation plugin) and apply it to any digital signal (VA synth, soft synth, etc) it almost always warms the sound.  But when I apply it to either Prophet (P6 or Rev2) or OB-6, it's almost like it has no effect, because a digital transformer plug-in is unable to add more warmth than real analog already has.  To me that says a lot, but someone else's ears might hear something different.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 03:34:17 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.