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Euclidean Rhythms

Euclidean Rhythms
« on: March 04, 2020, 07:37:21 AM »

It would be great to develop an Euclidean Rhythms option in the sequencer. ;D

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2020, 01:27:33 PM »
...and randomized/parameterized trigs, and sane mix/voice assignment features, and better distortion, and external sequencing, and a better song mode, and 16 dedicated step buttons separate from the pads...

I'm sure they'll get to it next year ;) Until then...music!

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2020, 12:27:53 AM »
Tempest development has stopped iím afraid so we wonít see any updates from the lips of Dave Smith himself.
Now we can only wait for a Tempest II.
Hear..hear...Dave!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 12:29:33 AM by Yorgos Arabatzis »

van

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2020, 09:27:34 AM »
Tempest development has stopped iím afraid so we wonít see any updates from the lips of Dave Smith himself.
Now we can only wait for a Tempest II.
Hear..hear...Dave!

no. no Mk2.
Besides, even if someday a Mk2 would appear around the corner, I don't think the music of the guys who're trolling the MkI will become that much better..
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 09:52:02 AM by van »

Stoss

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Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020, 10:37:25 PM »
Tempest development has stopped iím afraid so we wonít see any updates from the lips of Dave Smith himself.
Now we can only wait for a Tempest II.
Hear..hear...Dave!

Stopping development of a product without bringing it to completion was a bad idea. Releasing a new version of that product and not compensating those that are still waiting for promised features seems unethical.
I love the Tempest! I wish nothing but success for Dave and co. I just think a little justice is deserved when it comes to the Tempest and speculating on improvements.

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2020, 04:21:25 AM »
Tempest development has stopped iím afraid so we wonít see any updates from the lips of Dave Smith himself.
Now we can only wait for a Tempest II.
Hear..hear...Dave!

Stopping development of a product without bringing it to completion was a bad idea. Releasing a new version of that product and not compensating those that are still waiting for promised features seems unethical.
I love the Tempest! I wish nothing but success for Dave and co. I just think a little justice is deserved when it comes to the Tempest and speculating on improvements.

I agree with You, mr Stoss. I personally returned the Tempest to shop after using it for about 20 days because of the unsolvable problems with "loop screen" function and odd time signatures.
Although I found the interface and sound of the Tempest meeting my expectations, I felt disappointed with Sequential abandoning their product and I couldn't justify keeping it.
 I would not buy a second edition of Tempest, bearing in mind my disillusionment with the imperfections of the instrument. However, I didn't turn away from Sequential completly - recently i bought the OB-6 and I like it very much.

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2020, 05:02:16 PM »
The tragedy of the Tempest is not in the lofty list of unrealized features that so many people got hung up on, like sample import and the likes; but rather, it's about the elegance and simplicity that got lost along the way.

At its inception, there were just a handful of things remaining on the to-do list:

- fix the lagging MIDI clock output
- add odd time signatures, and one overlooked LFO time division (dotted 8th's)
- get the legato mode and LFO sync working
- fix the parameter wrap-around on the FX sliders
- patch the hole in the file system
- iron out a few sequencer bugs (flam, flam)
- clean up a few graphics

Otherwise, we were all but there; at least in so far as what was proclaimed in the manual I received with my Tempest.

Had DSI simply focused on fixing those issues, those of us who understood what the Tempest was supposed to be, would have been happy; and five years of bad press, brand damage, and frustration on both sides of the fence would have been averted.  Instead, they kept building on a shoddy foundation, chasing functionalities that were never supposed to be there, and pandering to the expectations of DAW-based beat makers; which resulted in over-taxing the processor, with no room left to code, and more than 140 bugs to fix.  In some ways, the community at large has only itself to blame.

I still hope that Chris Hector will pop up here one day with a buttoned-up version of the original OS: i.e. no playlist, no external sequencer, no arp, no compressor envelope, no undocumented key-combo short cuts that no one can remember, and a dozen other trivial additions removed... Just a simple and bullet-proof implementation of what the Tempest was originally designed to be.

Had Roger Linn himself overseen the Tempestís development, all the way, we would absolutely have that machine today.  To that end, a LinnDrum 2.0 is coming, and I guarantee that it will do what it says on the tin; so, forget any aspirations of a Tempest sequel.

To the OPÖ Polymetric and polyrhythmic sequences can indeed be done on the Tempest; albeit only by way of step programming.  I have templates for every Euclidean rhythm combination that the Tempest can do in this regard; if I find the time, and can find the files, Iíll post them up here for you.  Itís just that Iíd have to write an explanation of how they work, because it wonít be obvious at a glance.  I did have all this info up on the old forum, but I doubt anyone can access that these days.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 05:13:52 PM by John the Savage »

Stoss

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Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2020, 10:17:41 PM »
Many moons ago Chris had said that in his ďfree timeĒ he wanted to rewrite the entire OS from scratch to recoup much of the space lost to a patchwork of code fixes. Wouldnít it be great if the Pro3 sold so fabulously they found time for a proper Tempest 2.0 OS rewrite. I swear to you right now, if that happened I would buy a Pro3 in support of the effort... and not the cheap one... Iíd splurge for that overpriced wood and hinge!

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2020, 12:08:43 AM »
The tragedy of the Tempest is not in the lofty list of unrealized features that so many people got hung up on, like sample import and the likes; but rather, it's about the elegance and simplicity that got lost along the way.

At its inception, there were just a handful of things remaining on the to-do list:

- fix the lagging MIDI clock output
- add odd time signatures, and one overlooked LFO time division (dotted 8th's)
- get the legato mode and LFO sync working
- fix the parameter wrap-around on the FX sliders
- patch the hole in the file system
- iron out a few sequencer bugs (flam, flam)
- clean up a few graphics

Otherwise, we were all but there; at least in so far as what was proclaimed in the manual I received with my Tempest.

Had DSI simply focused on fixing those issues, those of us who understood what the Tempest was supposed to be, would have been happy; and five years of bad press, brand damage, and frustration on both sides of the fence would have been averted.  Instead, they kept building on a shoddy foundation, chasing functionalities that were never supposed to be there, and pandering to the expectations of DAW-based beat makers; which resulted in over-taxing the processor, with no room left to code, and more than 140 bugs to fix.  In some ways, the community at large has only itself to blame.

I still hope that Chris Hector will pop up here one day with a buttoned-up version of the original OS: i.e. no playlist, no external sequencer, no arp, no compressor envelope, no undocumented key-combo short cuts that no one can remember, and a dozen other trivial additions removed... Just a simple and bullet-proof implementation of what the Tempest was originally designed to be.

Had Roger Linn himself overseen the Tempestís development, all the way, we would absolutely have that machine today.  To that end, a LinnDrum 2.0 is coming, and I guarantee that it will do what it says on the tin; so, forget any aspirations of a Tempest sequel.

To the OPÖ Polymetric and polyrhythmic sequences can indeed be done on the Tempest; albeit only by way of step programming.  I have templates for every Euclidean rhythm combination that the Tempest can do in this regard; if I find the time, and can find the files, Iíll post them up here for you.  Itís just that Iíd have to write an explanation of how they work, because it wonít be obvious at a glance.  I did have all this info up on the old forum, but I doubt anyone can access that these days.

Cheers!

Are you sure about a LinnDrum 2.0? If so, can you provide a good link with a rundown of its features?

My heart personally sank a bit when reading about some of the issues with the Tempest, I just purchased one used. But so far I've been pretty much loving the idea of using it as a solid drum machine and percussive instrument after using it a bit.

I think it could have been a lot simpler. But I'm also an engineer and I can only imagine how hard it must have been to try pull a lot of these features off once the ball got rolling.

Since I'm trying to be DAW-less more or less, I was planning on recording live in playlist mode until I get my chance at owning a Cirklon, but alas playlist mode live recording is a no-go. If and when I get a Cirklon, I figured my Tempest would mainly serve as a sound design machine and beat maker.

But I'm very interested in a LinnDrum 2.0 if that's really a thing. Dave Smith makes great synths, Roger Linn makes great drum machines, it'd probably make sense to keep those two domains decoupled.

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2020, 01:49:57 AM »
Yes, I'm sure.  That's all I can say.  It's a ways off yet, but the LD2 is coming (wink).

As far as the bugs that remain in the Tempest are concerned, some people don't seem to be too bothered by them.  It depends on your workflow really.  Case in point, you've found the playlist bug; whereas I'd just as soon the playlist feature be removed altogether, to free up space for what I see as more important fixes to core functionality.  But, see, I don't use the playlist, nor was it a part of the original spec, so...

I sampled all my Tempest sounds into an MPC Live, over a year ago now, because the Tempest has an uncanny way of falling short, just shy of the finish line, no matter how I try to integrate it into the rest of my live rig.  I always run into some paradox or stumbling block, be it a design choice or a firmware bug.  Used on its own, however, it's mostly stable and certainly a lot of fun.  But I need a drum machine that plays well with others.

Cheers!

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2020, 03:50:27 AM »
Hey John i have your odd time signature files that youíve sent me lying around here..Do you I have your permission to upload it in this forum for Tempest users?Also i could try finding your explanation in the old forum via web archive or something..
As for the playlist feature Iíve uploaded legacy OS 1.4.5.14 which works with another bug compromise in loading sounds fast via softknob Iím afraid..
Login and youíll find it at the bottom of the 1st post here:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,586.0.html

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2020, 04:12:53 AM »
Hi Yorgos,

I can't believe you still have those (smirk).

Anyway, no, I did find the files here, and I'm sure I've made a ton of changes to them since (presumably for the better); so, I'll upload them myself, with a new and hopefully more concise explanation of how they work.  That said, it's 4a.m. here in my part of the world, so y'all will have to wait till tomorrow (wink)...

Cheers!

Zzz...

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2020, 04:44:27 AM »
Legend! :D
Hi Yorgos,

I can't believe you still have those (smirk).

Anyway, no, I did find the files here, and I'm sure I've made a ton of changes to them since (presumably for the better); so, I'll upload them myself, with a new and hopefully more concise explanation of how they work.  That said, it's 4a.m. here in my part of the world, so y'all will have to wait till tomorrow (wink)...

Cheers!

Zzz...

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2020, 05:00:01 PM »
Yes, I'm sure.  That's all I can say.  It's a ways off yet, but the LD2 is coming (wink).

Ah, seems like he's been talking about this openly for some time. I guess I'm just late to the party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDotr1lmNwI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVEems2eudw

Anyway, don't mean to derail the thread, carry on.

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2020, 07:29:09 PM »
Yes, but I promise you that it is actually taking shape (wink).

Cheers!

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2020, 05:45:01 AM »
- get the legato mode and LFO sync working

I thought LFO sync was 'fixed'? It certainly works a lot better than it did!

I never use the playlist function. Surely that's been a documented feature in there since day one though (even if it didn't work) as it's actually on the front of the machine?!

I still use mine all the time and I still love it, despite its failings. For me the main flaw is the lack of a comprehensive MIDI implementation which would at least have meant it could have been sequenced externally to bypass the limits of the internal sequencer. You can still do this to an extent (it's what I do to get more complex rhythms going) but I long for pitch and a couple of CCs per voice.

Is there anything out there that beats it in terms of a fully multi-timbral analog poly?
 
Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2020, 06:03:27 PM »
I thought LFO sync was 'fixed'? It certainly works a lot better than it did!

I never use the playlist function. Surely that's been a documented feature in there since day one though (even if it didn't work) as it's actually on the front of the machine?!

I still use mine all the time and I still love it, despite its failings. For me the main flaw is the lack of a comprehensive MIDI implementation which would at least have meant it could have been sequenced externally to bypass the limits of the internal sequencer. You can still do this to an extent (it's what I do to get more complex rhythms going) but I long for pitch and a couple of CCs per voice.

Is there anything out there that beats it in terms of a fully multi-timbral analog poly?
 

As per the LFO sync - you've either misread or misconstrued the context of what I said there.

Playlist functionality - was NOT in the original manual, operating system, or specs.

The lack of a comprehensive MIDI implementation, as an example, is just one of many reasons why I said that the Tempest always falls short for me, no matter how I presume to use it or integrate it with the rest of my studio or live rig.

I'm not really interested in speculating as to whether or not there's "anything out there that beats it".  That doesn't really pertain to the point I was making, and is highly subjective at best.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 06:49:28 PM by John the Savage »

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2020, 05:48:44 AM »
Playlist functionality - was NOT in the original manual, operating system, or specs.

I dunno, possibly not but it must have been there from pretty early on! My manual is v1.0 dated Sept 2011 and it's in there as a feature 'not implemented yet'. Do Tempests exist without 'playlist' on the front panel?
 
Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2020, 03:21:57 PM »
You know what, yes, it seems that Playlist was there from the beginning.  My mistake on that one.  It's been a while.  And yet, that functionality remains broken.  Regardless, my point remains the same, and that detail only stands to fortify it.  As far as everyone who was involved in its development are concerned, from Roger Linn all the way down to lowly ol' me, the Tempest's OS was mismanaged, overextended, and there's a lot of garbage in there as a result.  Beyond that, dude, I'm not interested in splitting hairs with people on this... Again.

Back to the topic of the thread, those Euclidean rhythm templates are coming.  I'm just really busy right now - mostly managing the fallout of cancelled gigs, because apparently the world is ending.   ::)

Cheers!

Re: Euclidean Rhythms
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2020, 03:28:58 PM »
No better time for music production :P

I'm just really busy right now - mostly managing the fallout of cancelled gigs, because apparently the world is ending.   ::)

Cheers!