Tempest petition...

Robot Heart · « **Reply #20 on:** May 28, 2016, 08:04:10 PM »

Many programs are already built on the existing samples, so they will remain as-is.

natrixgli · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2016, 06:31:03 AM »

Quote from: Robot Heart on May 28, 2016, 08:04:10 PM

Many programs are already built on the existing samples, so they will remain as-is.

This is probably a wise choice, I don't want my saved sounds to go awry. (However there is precedent for doing this as the triangle wave was changed after the fact on the Prophet 12.)

But what about making the start/end adjustable and maybe allowing to switch loop on/off? I realize that delves into feature request territory but it would help with the issue Razmo is talking about where many of the samples have noise from the start/end points not being at a zero crossing.

Robot Heart · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2016, 01:24:33 PM »

Unfortunately, making changes to the embedded sample content is non-trivial and beyond the scope of any future Tempest updates. As such, this request is a firm "no". The samples will remain unchanged.

Yorgos Arabatzis · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2016, 02:19:00 PM »

Only sample import can save the day then...

Robot Heart · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2016, 03:58:39 PM »

As a Tempest owner myself, I can unequivocally say we all wish that was going to happen!

Razmo · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2016, 10:53:08 PM »

Quote from: Roger_Linn on May 28, 2016, 12:43:59 PM

Quote from: Razmo on May 28, 2016, 12:29:46 PM
I wonder if the MIDI DIN bug will get fixed... and also if they can somehow get those loop points fixed in the samples...
Hi Razmo,
Could you tell me a little more about which bugs you're referring to?

The MIDI DIN bug is a bit hard to describe, but it was confirmed by Chris a long time ago, so if you ask him, I'm sure he'll explain it... but in short, if you turn off Tempest, and then back on, and use ONLY the MIDI DIN connection for dumping SysEx (to the current RAM sound), everything works... but if you at any time before that, have used the USB connection, then dumps sent to MIDI DIN thereafter is scrambled. I'll see if I can find my full explanation of how to recreate the bug.

The sample loop points is about the samples themselves... the single cycle samples have an offset bug of what seems to be a single sample, making the sample not sound seamless... We were told that this would not be fixed, since you cannot change the samples, but still I feel it's one of the more bizzare bugs, and I do not understand why this was not catched during production, as it's rather obvious when you do sound design with these waveforms

Razmo · « **Reply #26 on:** May 29, 2016, 11:25:11 PM »

I tried to find the posts on the other forum, but I cannot find them anymore, so here is what I remember:

If you turn on Tempest, and use USB for sysex and MIDI data in general, everything works fine... i can send sysex RAM sound dumps to the Tempest without any problem.

But if I turn on the Tempest, and use MIDI DIN, it sometimes does not recognise the sysex RAM sound dumps... or rather, it does take in the dump, but sometimes, parameters changed in the dump is not recognized, as if a prior dump is still used. I've been creating a sound editor for RAM dumps, and are sending full dumps every time a parameter is tweaked, and this is how I've spottet this bug... sometimes I tweak a knob in my editor, and the Tempest just do not change accordingly... via USB there is no problem... and it's not because I'm sending whole dumps fast after each other because my editor only send the dump, when a knob is released in the editor, to avoid huge amounts of MIDI data to be sent all the time while turning the editor knobs.

But the bug really start to show itself, if you send any MIDI note-on via USB prior to using MIDI DIN... that will make any incoming sysex dump via MIDI DIN totaly scrambled... the sound name in the display of Tempest is even garbled. This happens EVERY TIME a USB MIDI note-on has been recieved just ONE TIME prior to recieving a sysex dump via MIDI DIN.

So in other words; If you want sysex to work, you are forced to use USB... and that is a problem because DSI does not make multi client drivers for their USB connections, and when people need to access the Tempest from more than one program, this becomes a serious problem.. I always use a sequencer and en editor at the same time, but it's not possible unless you use MIDI DIN with a MIDI interface that have multi client capable drivers... and when MIDI DIN on Tempest does not work reliably with sysex dumps... well... then you have a problem.

I understand that most of DSI synths, you are advised to not use both USB and DIN at the same time at the input side of MIDI, and I can understand, that using both at the same time could maybe lead to problems... but MIDI DIN does not work correctly with Sysex, when it's used even by itself, missing changes in dumps here and there... if that could be fixed, it would be nice.

Roger_Linn · « **Reply #27 on:** May 30, 2016, 11:25:56 AM »

Quote from: Razmo on May 29, 2016, 10:53:08 PM

The MIDI DIN bug is a bit hard to describe, but it was confirmed by Chris a long time ago, so if you ask him, I'm sure he'll explain it... but in short, if you turn off Tempest, and then back on, and use ONLY the MIDI DIN connection for dumping SysEx (to the current RAM sound), everything works... but if you at any time before that, have used the USB connection, then dumps sent to MIDI DIN thereafter is scrambled. I'll see if I can find my full explanation of how to recreate the bug.

The sample loop points is about the samples themselves... the single cycle samples have an offset bug of what seems to be a single sample, making the sample not sound seamless... We were told that this would not be fixed, since you cannot change the samples, but still I feel it's one of the more bizzare bugs, and I do not understand why this was not catched during production, as it's rather obvious when you do sound design with these waveforms

Thanks, Razmo. The first one I was aware of but wasn't aware that any MIDI message received prior to the MIDI DIN Sysex dump would corrupt the transfer. I'll look into it.

The second one I was not aware of. I'll look into it.

Roger_Linn · « **Reply #28 on:** May 30, 2016, 06:45:01 PM »

Hi all,

I’m sorry to report that the Tempest software is still not suitable for a beta release and I’m leaving for a business trip tomorrow that lasts one week. So my best wild guess is that the beta is still a couple of weeks away and I apologize for my overoptimistic 2-week estimate of about 2 weeks ago. I’m trying my best but Tempest’s software seems particularly difficult to predict.

Sorry I don’t have better news,
Roger

purusha · « **Reply #29 on:** June 12, 2016, 06:29:14 AM »

The looped sample issue (sample offset) has been discussed to death on the other forum. I'm surprised it hasn't appeared on bug lists, unless it's not considered a "bug"?

blewis · « **Reply #30 on:** June 12, 2016, 08:34:37 AM »

It's a bug. It's just too late in the product's life cycle to change it. Fixing them will alter user and factory patches and you'd have a whole other population bitching they liked the noisy samples.

John the Savage · « **Reply #31 on:** June 13, 2016, 06:47:52 PM »

Quote from: purusha on June 12, 2016, 06:29:14 AM

The looped sample issue (sample offset) has been discussed to death on the other forum. I'm surprised it hasn't appeared on bug lists, unless it's not considered a "bug"?

The fact of the matter is, in layman's terms, the chip harboring the samples cannot be reprogrammed; which is why user sample import never happened either, despite DSI's best laid plans and promises. What blewis said above is also true, and has been the company's stance for a long time now; reiterated most recently by 'Robot Heart' at the top of this page... And it's a valid point.

Anyway, the bottom line is, it's never going to happen.

Honestly, I make sounds for a living, and I've never been burdened by the onboard sample selection or the noise associated with some of the digital waveforms; but I tend to work with what's at hand, without any preconceptions. Every sound, whatever its nature, noisy or otherwise, is useful in some context...

At any rate, I'm not making excuses for DSI; indeed they should have caught this anomaly early on. That said, the Tempest is more than capable as a synth regardless, and I've used every one of the onboard samples and waveforms to great effect. And when the task at hand requires a different sample or a cleaner waveform, I simply use a different synth; in the same way that I would never use the crusty filter on the MonoTribe, which is perfect in other contexts, if I were looking for that creamy Moog sound, etc.

Cheers!

goldphinga · « **Reply #32 on:** June 15, 2016, 12:42:38 PM »

If the chip holding the samples can't be reprogrammed, why not instead make a replacement chip/board that can be user installed? Just brain-storming!

Roger_Linn · « **Reply #33 on:** June 15, 2016, 05:20:12 PM »

Hi all,
I've leaving tonight for Sweetwater's Gearfest this Friday and Saturday, so I wanted to post an update before I leave. We've been working hard on the Tempest update and making very good progress. I think we're close but I hesitate to give details or an estimate because the last time I gave an estimate, I was way off. Tempest is very complex inside (9 computers!) so changing one thing tends to ripple through the system. I can say that I think you'll be very pleased with the beta when we post it here, which I hope will be soon, and I kindly thank you for your patience. If you happen to be attending Gearfest, please stop by my booth in the Electronic Music Production tent and say hi.

Roger_Linn · « **Reply #34 on:** June 27, 2016, 12:31:51 PM »

Hi all,

We've just posted a beta release containing the current status of bug fixes related to the petition:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,586.msg6783.html#msg6783

The second post in that thread is my detailed explanation of exactly how each of the petition bugs is affected. We haven't fixed everything but I think you'll be pleased at how much was fixed and how much this improves Tempest.

Any help you can give in testing this beta release is very much appreciated. Please post any bug reports to that thread.

Thank you for your patience,
Roger

Benzebub · « **Reply #35 on:** June 27, 2016, 01:20:15 PM »

Quote from: Roger_Linn on June 27, 2016, 12:31:51 PM

Hi all,

We've just posted a beta release containing the current status of bug fixes related to the petition:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,586.msg6783.html#msg6783

The second post in that thread is my detailed explanation of exactly how each of the petition bugs is affected. We haven't fixed everything but I think you'll be pleased at how much was fixed and how much this improves Tempest.

Any help you can give in testing this beta release is very much appreciated. Please post any bug reports to that thread.

Thank you for your patience,
Roger

Great news, Roger! Thanks for your detailed list about what was fixed and not with reasons explaining. Now I'm off to the Tempest giving it a workout.

tempted11 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 27, 2016, 02:38:16 PM »

Wonderful news **************THANK YOU

Roger_Linn · « **Reply #37 on:** June 27, 2016, 02:45:21 PM »

Oops-- in my post above, I ask people to post bug reports to the thread containing the update file and my descriptive post, which was my mistake. Please post bug reports to the "Bug report" thread immediately following it. The original thread is locked so that people won't have to search through tons of pages of bug reports to find the update file or my description. Thanks much.

Steven Morris · « **Reply #38 on:** June 28, 2016, 06:35:41 PM »

Been so busy I missed the update yesterday!!

Going to download the new beta and test it out later tonight. I can't wait to check it out.

guy smiley · « **Reply #39 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:43:11 PM »

Really enjoying getting right back into the Tempest again after a break..
New OS seems great. minor adjustments and so on hard to define, but the flow is definitely sounding great for me.
Privilege to see Roger Linn gert personally involved, really exciting.. keep it coming !!!