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Tempest petition...

Tempest petition...
« on: March 25, 2016, 04:41:13 AM »
Just addressing Carson's comments about the Tempest petition since he 'locked' the other topic:

Quote from: Carson from DSI
The description in the campaign is interesting, though somewhat misleading. The vast majority of Tempest owners are happily making music with it...
Um, evidently there are more than a trivial number of Tempest owners out there to whom this matters, Carson.

Quote from: Carson from DSI
Most importantly, if anybody had contacted us directly at DSI support to ask whether we have quit development on the Tempest, we would have told them no. We do intend to continue, and finish, development of the Tempest.
Oh, but we have contacted DSI, repeatedly in fact, only to be patronized.  Besides which, this campaign isn't about what you say you're going to do; it's about what you've actually done.  Many of these bugs have allegedly been "on your list" for years now.  And make no mistake about it, that's what this is about.

Quote from: Carson from DSI
Separately, the campaign appears to be an inaccurate representation of Tempest users since thereís no way to qualify who is an owner and who is not.
That's right, Carson, we're making all of this up.  The petition signees, the entire conversation at Synthtopia, the 32 thousand posts on the other DSI forum... All persons and opinions fabricated by an insignificant group of malcontents with a hate-on for DSI.  Whatever helps you sleep at night, man.

Quote from: Carson from DSI
As the Tempest currently stands (OS 1.4), there are some valid and somewhat annoying bugs that are present. Most everything listed on the campaign is on our bug list of items to consider for fixing/implementation.
How much longer are these "annoying bugs" to be under consideration exactly?  I can tell you how long they've been annoying me!

Quote from: Carson from DSI
The Tempest is a mature product (Shoot! 5 years is long enough for humans), and there have been many improvements made and features added which were not explicitly called out for implementation when the product was released. Because we are a small company and constantly produce new instruments, we have to rotate between updates for all instruments. I will reiterate, we DO intend to release another update for it.
Okay... When?  And can I have my money back to hold in trust until that happens?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
If users are actually unable to back up their work, please contact us directly at DSI support. This would be a serious problem, but I am unaware of any users contacting us in this regard.
What good is a successful back-up if there are still issues with loading older projects and sound files?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
1. Tempest not being able to discern between note 'velocity' and pad 'pressure'...

Velocity and pressure are derived from the same sensor, a force sensing resistor. That means that when a pad is played, velocity is the near instantaneous change in resistance from off to on. The question is, when should the continuous change in resistance start acting as pressure? How long do we wait before interpreting the sensor data as pressure? Adding a small fixed delay to onset of pressure might help, though I can imagine situations where you would also want pressure to react immediately.
Quote from: Chris Hector (May, 2014)
Velocity and pad pressure should be separate and will get looked into. There is already a timeout because the pads don't rise to the correct velocity immediately, I just need to tune the timeout for the aftertouch response.
You see, Carson, we are listening, so I suggest you get your stories straight.

Quote from: Carson from DSI
2. Note sustain without a duration limit...

This is a feature request, not a bug. The duration of a step must be held in memory so it can be saved/reloaded etc. Memory is not infinite.
Quote from: Chris Hector (May, 2014)
Note sustain without a duration limit causes a problem with the automatic voice allocation behavior.  I do consider it a bug, but due to the way everything is integrated it's not simple to change.  I tried it a while back and it led to some more annoying bugs so it's on the back burner right now.
So now it's a memory thing is it?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
3. "MIDI sequencer sound" prevents the corresponding internal sound from triggering, yet the 'OFF' setting remains broken...

This is on our bug list.
Quote from: Chris Hector (May, 2014)
This is a bug and is fixed in my latest beta.
That was two official operating systems ago, so what happened to this fix?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
4. Adding swing to the 'ROLL/ARP' function...

Not really a bug, more of a worklfow/feature request. It's on our request list for consideration.
Quote from: Chris Hector (May, 2014)
I'll be adding a flag so the sound roll will swing, that's about done.
That's funny, according your chief programmer, it's been done for two years already.  So where is it, Carson, since you think we're all just wining?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
5. The missing "Env Shape" parameter as seen on page 16. of Operation Manual 1.0...

When the 1.0 manual and 1.0 Tempest was released, it was explicitly stated that the unit was not complete and that it and the manual was subject to change. Most of these changes (all the way to 1.4) were welcome additions and fixes. I was not with the company officially when the Tempest was released, though I would imagine that "env shape" was removed as a design/navigation consideration.

The envelope shape can be modulated via the mod matrix or using the pitch and aux envelops to change its shape.
Yes, but why should we have to waste a mod slot for every envelope we want to shape, when the parameter we need is right there in the original manual?  You know, the manual you kept encouraging us to read; the one we used to educate our purchase back when all these promises were still on the table.

Quote from: Carson from DSI
6. Basic file management...

You already have basic file management. You can save/copy/rename files into a series of directories. It sounds like you want more "organization" functionality which is quite different than stating the Tempest lacks "Basic file management"...
Oh, right, I guess we should have stated more specifically that: when we save one of our 500 sounds 'WE'D LIKE TO KNOW WHERE IT WENT!'

Quote from: Carson from DSI
7. The envelope/LFO bug that causes the digital oscillators to quit or otherwise not trigger when modulated to, from, or through a relative 'level' of zero...

Just set the envelope amount value to 1.
This doesn't work if you want to use negative envelope amounts or when using an LFO for that matter.  And... It's a BUG!

Quote from: Carson from DSI
8. Tempest not remembering the folder-of-origin when saving...

I cannot speak to the reason for this as I have not spoken with Chris about it.
Well, I have, and allegedly it's one of those "easy" fixes that Dave Smith just can't be bothered to allot him the time to fix.

Quote from: Carson from DSI
9. 'Key Follow OFF' not working for the digital osc's...

on our list. Not sure if possible due to the SAM chip itself.

10. Glide not working for the digital osc's...

See #9 .

11. Pitch Bend not working for the digital oscillators...

See #9 .
Okay, so, all of the above are both in the manual and have been present in every incarnation of the operating system to date.  Of course, they have never worked.  And now we're supposed to believe that you embarked on this without actually knowing whether or not the chip could be programmed to do these tasks... Seriously?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
12. The ever-present but still not functional Glide/Legato modes...

Itís on our list. I'm not personally aware of the reasons for this.
Okay, but Chris does, and it still needs to be implemented.  Again, there it is in the manual and in the operating system, doing nothing.  This one was a real selling point too!

Quote from: Carson from DSI
13. The 'Playlist' crash bug...

I'm not sure I'm familiar with this one specifically. If it has been reported to support and reproduced, then it should be on our list. If nobody has reported it, please open a support ticket.
Okay.  Could someone please report this... Again (sigh)?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
14. Using the 'ROLL' function to record a part causes other pads to randomly trigger...

I've seen this before and believe it's related to a strange issue where the sound initialization procedure and/or file corruption issue. If I had to guess, it could be related to files saved on specific (non official) operating system releases or by users changing the initialize settings in the debug menu. Does this happen on the official 1.4 OS with a newly created file?
Yes, it happens with newly created files in OS 1.4.  It's related to the ARP, and Chris allegedly has it isolated, but again... When will it be fixed?
Quote from: Chris Hector (Nov, 2015)
I fixed the bug where roll is causing problems when the erase was on. It was specifically tied to the arp. The behavior didn't occur when it was doing retrigger normally. I figure this will help me narrow it down and find out what's causing the inconsistency, I'll let you know when I find it.
See, we listen!

Quote from: Carson from DSI
15. Using the 'ROLL' function to record in '16 Levels' mode fails to record the correct velocities: i.e. it only repeats the velocity of the lowest pad pressed...

Itís on our list.

16. Recording a 'ROLL' with a sound assigned to a voice results in the pad lighting up as if it is being triggered, yet there is no sound...

Itís on our list.
Yes, yes, they're all "on your list"... Precisely our point really.  And so they're going to be fixed when exactly?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
17. There is an advanced bug that causes the pad names to randomly change when auditioning sounds; it happens most predictably when you have auditioned a sound from one pad and then try to audition a sound from another pad. When this happens the available sound folder also changes, not just the pad name: i.e. the 'Kick' pad, for instance, will suddenly become a 'Snare' pad - *which instantly loads a snare sound by the way (devastating!) - after which you can no longer access the kick folder from that pad at all, unless you "revert" the sound...

Not an advanced bug at all and certainly does not block access to any sound. The description is a bit overblown, however, itís on our list.
Did I say "advanced"?  Sorry, I was just trying to distinguish it from the other two pad name bugs that Chris and I have been going back and forth on for months.  But since it's so pedestrian, Carson, it shouldn't take much in the way of time and resources to fix it, right?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
18. If the Tempest receives a RAM sound dump via USB, while also receiving note-on/off data on the MIDI DIN input, then USB MIDI sys-ex is not received correctly half of the time: i.e. it just stands there waiting for MIDI data in those cases.

It is not advised to use USB and MIDI at the same time for MIDI input. This is true for all of our instruments.
Chris publicly acknowledged this as a bug in this very forum, and repeatedly promised 'Razmo' (who brought this to our attention) that it could be and indeed would be fixed.  Hell, if I remember correctly, he even said it was fixed and would be in the release of OS 1.4.  So who are we to believe if not the guy writing the code?  And by the way, it works in the Evolver!

Quote from: Carson from DSI
20. When switching beats on-the-fly, the first step of the sequencer-out is consistently late; so if you're triggering a sample loop on the one, every time you switch beats on the Tempest, it will be out of sync for the first pass...

I would guess that this initial latency is due to higher priority tasks being performed when changing beats. There's a whole lot of data to load very quickly on a beat change and keeping the internal sound engine in time and performing as expected is certainly It's also worth noting that the "sequencer out" parameter was added by Chris on his own accord. Sequencing external instruments from the Tempest was never stated as a feature when the Tempest was released.
Internal latency indeed!  But you're right, Carson, this feature was never supposed to be in the operating system; yet we still can't shut it 'OFF' so we can use that pad for our internal sounds, as was intended by design when we purchased the Tempest.  See #3

Quote from: Carson from DSI
21. Pad names need to be added for all the sound folders, and vice versa. And many of the existing pad names need to be properly linked to their respective parent folders, so "Tamb" doesn't default to "Shaker", etc. when auditioning sounds (not to be confused with point 17. which is a completely different bug)...

This is half feature request and half bug, and fairly low priority in the scheme of things. It falls into the ďnice to haveĒ category.
So half-fix it then!  At any rate, I happen to know that it's already fixed; but then, Chris would have to be given the time to compile a proper update now wouldn't he?
Quote from: Chris Hector (Nov, 2015)
Right, that's the sound type bug I just fixed. It was setting the pad kit sound to the default for the directory you were auditioning sounds in.

Quote from: Carson from DSI
22. When triggered via MIDI, sustained ADSR sounds hang whenever the bank those sounds are from is not the currently selected bank...

Itís on our list.
So fix it!

Quote from: Carson from DSI
23. The Tempest's timing drifts in 'Slave' mode when using the MIDI DIN input, gradually losing sync with the 'Master' clock source; and this behavior is further exacerbated with use of the 'ROLL' function...

I cannot speak to the accuracy of this statement. I have no information regarding the performed tests, loaded OS versions, settings, and overall method. We have an Innerclock System in the office that we can use to verify this is true. Whoever is experiencing this drift, please open a support ticket with us and provide detailed step-by-step instructions for reproducing this and we will look into it.
Sometime this decade then?

Quote from: Carson from DSI
For all current and prospective Tempest owners out there, please understand that we are aware of your concerns and appreciate your perspective. We have not abandoned the Tempest OS. Between pushing forward with new designs and refining existing products, there is never a point in time at which we are idle here at DSI. It's a complex balancing act with many variables. We will be revisiting the Tempest OS, and hopefully soon, but the Change.org petition has no bearing on our timeframe, and we can't specifically guarantee when will dive back in.

This will remain our definitive statement on this matter. Thank you for your continued patronage and support.
So there you have it, straight from the proverbial horse's mouth: DSI is happy to take your money; but if you want them to fix the instrument that you paid for, they are simply not concerned with whatever you may think is a reasonable timeframe... Period.  And that, folks, is why this petition exist in the first place!

So let's just keep the pressure on and see how this weathers in the real world, where the good people part with their hard-earned to keep the employees at DSI in a job (doing whatever the hell they want apparently).

https://www.change.org/p/dave-smith-help-make-the-tempest-a-priority-for-dave-smith-instruments?recruiter=2593925&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 05:01:39 AM by John the Savage »

sofine

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Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 05:24:01 AM »
+1

Please sign the petition.

We've been waiting for YEARS to get bugs and promised features addressed.

I have invested a lot in DSI (Tempest, Polyevolver, Pro2, Prophet 6), I like to support forward thinking, great sounding musical instruments, but I have to admit that I am thoroughly disappointed and frustrated with DSI leaving us Tempest users hanging for years with promised bug fixes.

Surely they are making enough profit to afford to dedicate existing resources or invest in new resources to support older and new products?

Simon

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2016, 04:55:48 AM »
so we got good news, things are moving

again, big respect for DSI and Roger Linn
for always staying constructive, friendly and supportive

my respect for you just got even bigger than before -
thanks !
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 04:57:24 AM by tempted11 »

Steven Morris

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Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2016, 09:14:12 AM »
so we got good news, things are moving

again, big respect for DSI and Roger Linn
for always staying constructive, friendly and supportive

my respect for you just got even bigger than before -
thanks !

I agree!

I was really excited to hear that Roger Linn is getting involved again.

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2016, 11:20:22 AM »
Have I missed something here?

sofine

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Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2016, 01:48:37 PM »

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 02:32:45 PM »
Ah ok I see.

Good to see Roger getting involved, he's a helpful guy. Let's hope he holds some sway.

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2016, 10:59:20 AM »
It is great to see that in 2016 Roger Linn can produce products as a 1-person company. Hopefully he finds the time to fix up the Tempest.

Razmo

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Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2016, 05:56:24 PM »
Jesus christ... Carson in a nutshell, but I'm not surprised.

I see that he has not understood shit of what I told him about the MIDI DIN bug using SysEx... even after he initially PROMISED me that it was fixed, before I bought the Tempest a second time! ... I have VERY PRECISELY explained to Carson what the bug was about, even AFTER I found out that nothing was fixed after purchasing Tempest the second time...

I also explained it to Chris, and IT WAS CONFIRMED, AND WAS PROMISED TO BE FIXED AS SOON AS HE HAD FINISHED OS UPDATES ON PRO2 AND PROPHET 12!!! ... do I need to say that it has not been fixed yet, and that SEVERAL products was made by DSI since that, and even other OS updates for these newer products was released after?

In short... DSI do not give a shit about their promises, and that's the problem! ... same thing with the Evolver MIDI bugs that was promised fixed more than once, and still waiting for more than 4 years for that fix.

I still have the private emails with Chris where he promised that fix... I can prove it at any time!
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2016, 11:59:48 PM »
Ouch guys - sold mine a few years back and ended up getting frustrated with the tempest development. Sad to see it's still causing headaches.

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2016, 03:21:39 PM »
Hi all,
We're getting close to a beta release of a new Tempest update that fixes a lot of bugs. I'll be posting details as we get closer. Thank you for your patience, which I realize has been difficult but I promise you we're working hard on it.
Thanks,
Roger

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2016, 10:29:40 PM »
Good news :)

Has there been any mention of the possibility of getting the Tempest going as a 6 channel synth with MPE?

Cheers

Andy

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2016, 09:11:05 AM »
Has there been any mention of the possibility of getting the Tempest going as a 6 channel synth with MPE?
Hi Andy,
I'd love to add MPE to Tempest but I'm afraid it's not very high on Tempest owners' priorities, and there are many other priorities they consider higher. Hopefully the demand for MPE will rise in future when MPE instruments are more widely used.
- Roger

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2016, 10:33:23 AM »
Hi Roger,

Thanks for the info, I guessed it was wishful thinking.

Cheers

Andy

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 12:39:14 AM »
Hi all,
We're getting close to a beta release of a new Tempest update that fixes a lot of bugs. I'll be posting details as we get closer. Thank you for your patience, which I realize has been difficult but I promise you we're working hard on it.
Thanks,
Roger

Excellent news

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2016, 12:36:36 PM »
excellent news indeed!

had it ever been discussed/considered if an exanded memory for samples, sounds and patterns
would be SOFTWARE- and HARDWAREWISE possible?

blewis

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Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2016, 04:58:52 PM »
Sorry to add here. John had requested I add this comment on the prophet5.org forum (which is currently down) to the petition thread there.

I am seeing some weird stuck note behavior on OS 1.4 with one of the factory projects.  Here is a video and a list of instructions:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,524.0.html

I can post inline here too on this thread, but wanted to be conservative in case its not welcome.


Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2016, 06:25:39 PM »
Sorry to add here. John had requested I add this comment on the prophet5.org forum (which is currently down) to the petition thread there.

I am seeing some weird stuck note behavior on OS 1.4 with one of the factory projects.  Here is a video and a list of instructions:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,524.0.html

I can post inline here too on this thread, but wanted to be conservative in case its not welcome.

No problem at all letting us know if you find something amiss. In this instance, the behavior that you're noting is known to us, and on our list of things to address with the Tempest OS.

You or John or anyone else is certainly welcome comment in this thread.

Cheers.
SEQUENTIAL

Razmo

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Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2016, 12:29:46 PM »
I wonder if the MIDI DIN bug will get fixed... and also if they can somehow get those loop points fixed in the samples...
If you need me, follow the shadows...

Re: Tempest petition...
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2016, 12:43:59 PM »
I wonder if the MIDI DIN bug will get fixed... and also if they can somehow get those loop points fixed in the samples...
Hi Razmo,
Could you tell me a little more about which bugs you're referring to?