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Help Make Tempest Dave's Priority

Help Make Tempest Dave's Priority
« on: March 24, 2016, 12:15:44 AM »
http://dsiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7571
Quote from: Venture
Its time for an organized attempt to get the Tempest some much needed love from DSI (or just get it looked at :roll: )

Here is a petition that we have created to focus our efforts, please sign it to support the cause!

Quote from: joe-lou

https://www.change.org/p/dave-smith-help-make-the-tempest-a-priority-for-dave-smith-instruments?recruiter=2593925&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink


If you would like to see bug fixes in the future and think this will help- Please sign it.
If you would like to see bug fixes but disagree with the wording- Please let us know.
If you are %100 satisfied with your tempest as is - Please ignore and enjoy the rest of your day.

Thanks everyone. I know this is a long shot but it feel better than sitting on or hands.

Here is the running bug list courtesy of John the Savage:

Quote from: John the Savage
Longstanding bugs:

1. Tempest not being able to discern between note 'velocity' and pad 'pressure'...
2. Note sustain without a duration limit...
3. "MIDI sequencer sound" prevents the corresponding internal sound from triggering, yet the 'OFF' setting remains broken...
4. Adding swing to the 'ROLL/ARP' function...
5. The missing "Env Shape" parameter as seen on page 16. of Operation Manual 1.0...
6. Basic file management...
7. The envelope/LFO bug that causes the digital oscillators to quit or otherwise not trigger when modulated to, from, or through a relative 'level' of zero...
8. Tempest not remembering the folder-of-origin when saving...
9. 'Key Follow OFF' not working for the digital osc's...
10. Glide not working for the digital osc's...
11. The ever-present but still not functional Glide/Legato modes...
12. The 'Playlist' crash bug...

And those introduced with OS 1.4:

13. Using the 'ROLL' function to record a part causes other pads to randomly trigger - even pads with parts already recorded on them - and these unintended triggers also get recorded...
14. Having 'ROLL' engaged also causes other pads to randomly trigger when trying to 'Erase' parts with the sequencer running.
15. Using the 'ROLL' function to record in '16 Levels' mode fails to record the correct velocities: i.e. it only repeats the velocity of the lowest pad pressed...
16. Recording a 'ROLL' with a sound assigned to a voice results in the pad lighting up as if it is being triggered, yet there is no sound...
17. There is an advanced bug that causes the pad names to randomly change when auditioning sounds; it happens most predictably when you have auditioned a sound from one pad and then try to audition a sound from another pad. When this happens the available sound folder also changes, not just the pad name: i.e. the 'Kick' pad, for instance, will suddenly become a 'Snare' pad - *which instantly loads a snare sound by the way (devastating!) - after which you can no longer access the kick folder from that pad at all, unless you "revert" the sound...
18. If the Tempest receives a RAM sound dump via USB, while also receiving note-on/off data on the MIDI DIN input, then USB MIDI sys-ex is not received correctly half of the time: i.e. it just stands there waiting for MIDI data in those cases.
19. There are still issues with loading older projects: i.e. voices dropping-out...

Other miscellaneous bugs:

20. When switching beats on-the-fly, the first step of the sequencer-out is consistently late; so if you're triggering a sample loop on the one, every time you switch beats on the Tempest, it will be out of sync for the first pass...
21. Pad names need to be added for all the sound folders, and vice versa.  And many of the existing pad names need to be properly linked to their respective parent folders, so "Tamb" doesn't default to "Shaker", etc. when auditioning sounds (not to be confused with point 17. which is a completely different bug)...
22. When triggered via MIDI, sustained ADSR sounds hang whenever the bank those sounds are from is not the currently selected bank...
23. The Tempest's timing drifts in 'Slave' mode when using the MIDI DIN input, gradually losing sync with the 'Master' clock source; and this behavior is further exacerbated with use of the 'ROLL' function...
24. Pitch Bend not working for the digital oscillators...

I'm sure there are more, and I will update this list as I recall them.  Most notably, however, these ALL fall well within the original [advertised] specifications for the Tempest; something that I, for one, carefully researched before making my purchase.
Anyway, there you have it.  Subjectivity aside, if DSI fixes these bugs, I'll be happy.

Mark my words though; start asking for new features and you'll be shut-down straight out the gate.  Good luck...

Cheers!

*Edit: just added a couple bugs to the list...

Please leave a comment of any missed bugs and I will add them to the list!

More importantly I am going to compile a list of forum names in support of these bug fixes. PLEASE comment or let me know if I can add you to list of supporters!!!

Come on guys lets make this happen!

Edits: Added John's full quote, Added bug #22 courtesy of motorik, Added bug #23 courtesy of keston, Added #24 courtesy of Stoss, Added the petition
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 12:20:22 AM by Yorgos Arabatzis »

Re: Help Make Tempest Dave's Priority
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 03:13:32 PM »

big thank you to you who organized this,
whatever will be the result,

it already gives me a good feeling, that a lot of users care,
try something together and if they kepp on trying in a positive way,
there will be good results.

as an alternative - in case DSI has good reasons for saying NO for the moment,
i'd like to suggest something like " let's throw 10usd each in a hat and hire a programmer"

or maybe some of you has a better idea.

but i am sure, this will will have a good result

THANKS !!!


Quote from: John the Savage


Quote from: Beatmaker
Biggest request now:

32 beats please and make tempest be able to send midi from any pad, while being sequenced. Like change a pad from internal to external sequencing. That would make tempest the greatest machine out there.
This is most likely not going to happen, as the Tempest's operational resources are already taxed to the hilt.
...


maybe it would be an idea to ask Tobias of "tubbutec" about this,
as he clones and improves processors for synths.

i mean, maybe it would be possible to change the whole processor with a better one,
not just the software?

at 4000+ sold Tempests, maybe it is a good idea....


another person to ask would be the guy,
who wrote the software for the Tanzbär/Tanzmaus
( he is known to be a genius when it comes to things like this)



ps i read somewhere the request, that in an older OS when changeing patterns,
sounds where not cut but more kind of sustained / blended / morphed into the new ones.

don't know if this is added already but if it really had been so, i think it would a good one.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 03:42:35 PM by tempted11 »

cbmd

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Re: Help Make Tempest Dave's Priority
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 05:00:15 PM »
The description in the campaign is interesting, though somewhat misleading. The vast majority of Tempest owners are happily making music with it. Most importantly, if anybody had contacted us directly at DSI support to ask whether we have quit development on the Tempest, we would have told them no.  We do intend to continue, and finish, development of the Tempest.

Separately, the campaign appears to be an inaccurate representation of Tempest users since there’s no way to qualify who is an owner and who is not.

As the Tempest currently stands (OS 1.4), there are some valid and somewhat annoying bugs that are present.  Most everything listed on the campaign is on our bug list of items to consider for fixing/implementation. The Tempest is a mature product (Shoot! 5 years is long enough for humans), and there have been many improvements made and features added which were not explicitly called out for implementation when the product was released. Because we are a small company and constantly produce new instruments, we have to rotate between updates for all instruments. I will reiterate, we DO intend to release another update for it.

If users are actually unable to back up their work, please contact us directly at DSI support. This would be a serious problem, but I am unaware of any users contacting us in this regard.

I've addressed the list of issues more specifically below. 

1. Tempest not being able to discern between note 'velocity' and pad 'pressure'...
   
Velocity and pressure are derived from the same sensor, a force sensing resistor.  That means that when a pad is played, velocity is the near instantaneous change in resistance from off to on.  The question is, when should the continuous change in resistance start acting as pressure?  How long do we wait before interpreting the sensor data as pressure?  Adding a small fixed delay to onset of pressure might help, though I can imagine situations where you would also want pressure to react immediately.

2. Note sustain without a duration limit...
   
This is a feature request, not a bug.  The duration of a step must be held in memory so it can be saved/reloaded etc.  Memory is not infinite. 

3. "MIDI sequencer sound" prevents the corresponding internal sound from triggering, yet the 'OFF' setting remains broken...
   
This is on our bug list.

4. Adding swing to the 'ROLL/ARP' function...
   
Not really a bug, more of a worklfow/feature request.  It's on our request list for consideration.

5. The missing "Env Shape" parameter as seen on page 16. of Operation Manual 1.0...
   
When the 1.0 manual and 1.0 Tempest was released, it was explicitly stated that the unit was not complete and that it and the manual was subject to change.  Most of these changes (all the way to 1.4) were welcome additions and fixes.  I was not with the company officially when the Tempest was released, though I would imagine that "env shape" was removed as a design/navigation consideration. 

The envelope shape can be modulated via the mod matrix or using the pitch and aux envelops to change its shape.

6. Basic file management...
   
You already have basic file management.  You can save/copy/rename files into a series of directories.  It sounds like you want more "organization" functionality which is quite different than stating the Tempest lacks "Basic file management". This is a feature request and not a bug.

7. The envelope/LFO bug that causes the digital oscillators to quit or otherwise not trigger when modulated to, from, or through a relative 'level' of zero...

Just set the envelope amount value to 1.  Also see #9.

8. Tempest not remembering the folder-of-origin when saving...

I cannot speak to the reason for this as I have not spoken with Chris about it.

9. 'Key Follow OFF' not working for the digital osc's...

on our list.  Not sure if possible due to the SAM chip itself.

10. Glide not working for the digital osc's...
   
See #9.

11. Pitch Bend not working for the digital oscillators...
   
See #9.

12. The ever-present but still not functional Glide/Legato modes...

It’s on our list.  I'm not personally aware of the reasons for this.

13. The 'Playlist' crash bug...
   
I'm not sure I'm familiar with this one specifically.  If it has been reported to support and reproduced, then it should be on our list. If nobody has reported it, please open a support ticket.
   
14. Using the 'ROLL' function to record a part causes other pads to randomly trigger - even pads
   
I've seen this before and believe it's related to a strange issue where the sound initialization procedure and/or file corruption issue.  If I had to guess, it could be related to files saved on specific (non official) operating system releases or by users changing the initialize settings in the debug menu. Does this happen on the official 1.4 OS with a newly created file?

15. Using the 'ROLL' function to record in '16 Levels' mode fails to record the correct velocities: i.e. it only repeats the velocity of the lowest pad pressed...
   
It’s on our list.

16. Recording a 'ROLL' with a sound assigned to a voice results in the pad lighting up as if it is being triggered, yet there is no sound...
   
It’s on our list.
   
17. There is an advanced bug that causes the pad names to randomly change when auditioning sounds; it happens most predictably when you have auditioned a sound from one pad and then try to audition a sound from another pad. When this happens the available sound folder also changes, not just the pad name: i.e. the 'Kick' pad, for instance, will suddenly become a 'Snare' pad - *which instantly loads a snare sound by the way (devastating!) - after which you can no longer access the kick folder from that pad at all, unless you "revert" the sound...

Not an advanced bug at all and certainly does not block access to any sound.  The description is a bit overblown, however, it’s on our list.

18. If the Tempest receives a RAM sound dump via USB, while also receiving note-on/off data on the MIDI DIN input, then USB MIDI sys-ex is not received correctly half of the time: i.e. it just stands there waiting for MIDI data in those cases.

It is not advised to use USB and MIDI at the same time for MIDI input.  This is true for all of our instruments.

20. When switching beats on-the-fly, the first step of the sequencer-out is consistently late; so if you're triggering a sample loop on the one, every time you switch beats on the Tempest, it will be out of sync for the first pass...

I would guess that this initial latency is due to higher priority tasks being performed when changing beats.  There's a whole lot of data to load very quickly on a beat change and keeping the internal sound engine in time and performing as expected is certainly   It's also worth noting that the "sequencer out" parameter was added by Chris on his own accord.  Sequencing external instruments from the Tempest was never stated as a feature when the Tempest was released.

21. Pad names need to be added for all the sound folders, and vice versa. And many of the existing pad names need to be properly linked to their respective parent folders, so "Tamb" doesn't default to "Shaker", etc. when auditioning sounds (not to be confused with point 17. which is a completely different bug)...
   
This is half feature request and half bug, and fairly low priority in the scheme of things. It falls into the “nice to have” category.

22. When triggered via MIDI, sustained ADSR sounds hang whenever the bank those sounds are from is not the currently selected bank...
   
It’s on our list.

23. The Tempest's timing drifts in 'Slave' mode when using the MIDI DIN input, gradually losing sync with the 'Master' clock source; and this behavior is further exacerbated with use of the 'ROLL' function...
   
I cannot speak to the accuracy of this statement. I have no information regarding the performed tests, loaded OS versions, settings, and overall method.  We have an Innerclock System in the office that we can use to verify this is true. Whoever is experiencing this drift, please open a support ticket with us and provide detailed step-by-step instructions for reproducing this and we will look into it.

For all current and prospective Tempest owners out there, please understand that we are aware of your concerns and appreciate your perspective. We have not abandoned the Tempest OS. Between pushing forward with new designs and refining existing products, there is never a point in time at which we are idle here at DSI. It's a complex balancing act with many variables. We will be revisiting the Tempest OS, and hopefully soon, but the Change.org petition has no bearing on our timeframe, and we can't specifically guarantee when will dive back in.

This will remain our definitive statement on this matter. Thank you for your continued patronage and support.  
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