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Sounds only demo

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Sounds only demo
« on: February 10, 2020, 02:01:31 PM »
Just found this hour long video on YouTube of a sound only demo of the Pro 3.  The dude magically got his hands on a standard edition when it was announced.  I have never in my life been so amazed or impressed by the bottom line sound of any synth.  Just from hearing the sounds in this demo alone the Pro 3 is everything we have ever been searching for in a machine.  Dave couldn’t have been more right when he says “it covers all the territories”

https://youtu.be/FIEZTv71INA
SEQUENTIAL Pro 3, DSI Prophet 12, DSI Prophet Rev2-8, Moog Subsequent 37, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Novation Bass Station 2, BOSS VE500, MOTU Micro Lite, AKAI APC240 MKII, SSL Fusion, UAD Apollo X6, MacBook Pro 2017, ADAM A7X Monitors, Logic X
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Razmo

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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 04:58:17 PM »
Naah... it does not cover all, but a lot... only if you start incorporating some eurorack modules will you get closer to this thing being the ultimate monosynth... in my humble opinion.

Besides, the filter types may not be to everyones liking... I have myself thought, that an evil twin PRO3 with more agressive filter types would be cool... say one with ms20, Polivoks and Wasp filters would give you a very different character.

But it certainly is a comprehensive monosynth as is, and I see nothing like it really.
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 06:26:05 PM »
Ohhh Razmo...the Pro 3 covers all territories we have ever wanted and have been looking for in an aggressive synth....some synths have come close...but we have always sold them as they have all been let downs as far as the sound they can produce that is our ideal sound....we make aggressive music so this Pro 3 is the only synth that has the capability to produce the timbres that we envision in our music ...both traditional VCO oscillators and the hard edged digital waveforms ...it’s our ultimate synth...may not be so for others...but it’s our holy grail of terror...our next releases will be on another level with the Pro 3.
SEQUENTIAL Pro 3, DSI Prophet 12, DSI Prophet Rev2-8, Moog Subsequent 37, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Novation Bass Station 2, BOSS VE500, MOTU Micro Lite, AKAI APC240 MKII, SSL Fusion, UAD Apollo X6, MacBook Pro 2017, ADAM A7X Monitors, Logic X
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 08:52:34 PM »
There you go, a video with lots of wave shapes.
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2020, 08:59:42 PM »

Besides, the filter types may not be to everyones liking... I have myself thought, that an evil twin PRO3 with more agressive filter types would be cool... say one with ms20, Polivoks and Wasp filters would give you a very different character.

Might want to check out the MatrixBrute. That Steiner can be pretty nasty! Of course you can always get ms20, Polivoks and Wasp filters, feed the Pro 3 into them and then back in!

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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 01:01:59 AM »

Besides, the filter types may not be to everyones liking... I have myself thought, that an evil twin PRO3 with more agressive filter types would be cool... say one with ms20, Polivoks and Wasp filters would give you a very different character.

Might want to check out the MatrixBrute. That Steiner can be pretty nasty! Of course you can always get ms20, Polivoks and Wasp filters, feed the Pro 3 into them and then back in!

Sure, but I could still imagine a dark evil twin standing on the other side of my Quantum with the three most viscious filters trackable  ;D ... know it wont happen, I am just dreaming, and yes it can be done with modular stuff... I just wish there were some real analog insertion points right after the oscillators to keep at least the two analog filters in the analog domain when routing them thru Eurorack... as is now, they go thru ADC, then out the CV outs thru DAC... an unnecessary signal degradation when all it takes are three stereo insert jacks in the signal path and maybe a bit of protection curcuitry.

And another aspect of having three agressive filters in a twin device is of course preset saving, and the fact that anyone having that synth would have them so you can share or sell presets... this is not doable with Eurorack, so it quickly becomes a personal setup that only works on the fly.
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 01:09:45 AM »
Ohhh Razmo...the Pro 3 covers all territories we have ever wanted and have been looking for in an aggressive synth....some synths have come close...but we have always sold them as they have all been let downs as far as the sound they can produce that is our ideal sound....we make aggressive music so this Pro 3 is the only synth that has the capability to produce the timbres that we envision in our music ...both traditional VCO oscillators and the hard edged digital waveforms ...it’s our ultimate synth...may not be so for others...but it’s our holy grail of terror...our next releases will be on another level with the Pro 3.

I see, you meant cover your needs, then it makes more sense, because I am sure it will not meet everyones desire... it will not meet all that I need in my studio, it meets most analog monosynth jobs, but things like samples, pads with polyphony and other synthesis types it will not cover... PRO3 fits a small role in my studio, that my Quantum will not touch, and that is the raw analog sound from the combi of analog oscillators, vcf and vca, with just the right filter types, plus the very capable sequencer. It will take care of most basses, leads and sequences/arpeggios that is monophonic or paraphonic.
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2020, 01:18:51 AM »
One thing I am beginning to wonder is, if the analog oscillators are handled like on an Evolver, or the other analog polysynths... I am thinking in regard to ADC... are the analog oscillator allways converted to digital, and then everything is digital until converted back to analog before the mixer or filter? Or are the signal path kept analog all the way up to the parallel convertion right before the FX section?

I am wondering because the PRO3 still sport a VCA separately for all three oscillators for better paraphonic playabillity... I wonder if these VCAs are digital or actually analog for all three oscillators... on PRO2 I believe they are digital as that would be the most logical since it is the cheapest way and the oscillators are digital anyway, but with PRO3s mixed oscillators, I have to wonder if the VCAs are digital and prior to convertion right before the mixer (or is the mixer also digital?), or if the VCAs are analog and right after convertion to analog before the mixer.

Would be nice to see a signal flow diagram.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 01:20:31 AM by Razmo »
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2020, 08:58:10 AM »
One thing I am beginning to wonder is, if the analog oscillators are handled like on an Evolver, or the other analog polysynths... I am thinking in regard to ADC... are the analog oscillator allways converted to digital, and then everything is digital until converted back to analog before the mixer or filter? Or are the signal path kept analog all the way up to the parallel convertion right before the FX section?

I am wondering because the PRO3 still sport a VCA separately for all three oscillators for better paraphonic playabillity... I wonder if these VCAs are digital or actually analog for all three oscillators... on PRO2 I believe they are digital as that would be the most logical since it is the cheapest way and the oscillators are digital anyway, but with PRO3s mixed oscillators, I have to wonder if the VCAs are digital and prior to convertion right before the mixer (or is the mixer also digital?), or if the VCAs are analog and right after convertion to analog before the mixer.

Would be nice to see a signal flow diagram.
Pretty sure Dave said in one of the many run throughs that the signal flow is all analog until the fx except for the digi osc. I'd guess that the VCOs are multiplied with one split hitting an analog to digital converter just before entering the matrix. I don't know if it would be cheaper to use a digital VCA in the mixer anyhow since you'd need a converter to get it back to analog before the filter, whereas in the Pro it's probably all software before the filter.

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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2020, 09:56:46 AM »
One thing I am beginning to wonder is, if the analog oscillators are handled like on an Evolver, or the other analog polysynths... I am thinking in regard to ADC... are the analog oscillator allways converted to digital, and then everything is digital until converted back to analog before the mixer or filter? Or are the signal path kept analog all the way up to the parallel convertion right before the FX section?

I am wondering because the PRO3 still sport a VCA separately for all three oscillators for better paraphonic playabillity... I wonder if these VCAs are digital or actually analog for all three oscillators... on PRO2 I believe they are digital as that would be the most logical since it is the cheapest way and the oscillators are digital anyway, but with PRO3s mixed oscillators, I have to wonder if the VCAs are digital and prior to convertion right before the mixer (or is the mixer also digital?), or if the VCAs are analog and right after convertion to analog before the mixer.

Would be nice to see a signal flow diagram.
Pretty sure Dave said in one of the many run throughs that the signal flow is all analog until the fx except for the digi osc. I'd guess that the VCOs are multiplied with one split hitting an analog to digital converter just before entering the matrix. I don't know if it would be cheaper to use a digital VCA in the mixer anyhow since you'd need a converter to get it back to analog before the filter, whereas in the Pro it's probably all software before the filter.

Well, if the signal is analog all the way up to the matrix/fx section, then the analog vcos must have analog vcas for their individual vca envelopes... The question then is, if the digital oscillator has a digital vca before its dac to save components for an analog vca, or if they took the full step and gave it an analog vca after the dac.

Anyway... If the digital oscillator is allready digital, and the whole signal path up to the matrix/fx is converted to digital, it would have been cool if the digital osc had a digital VCA, and then given a routing option to bypass the analog mixer, vcf and vca, and get mixed straight into the digital conversion at the matrix/fx... Simply to route the digital vco completely around the analog part.

Why? Because wavetables let you create simulated filters and can change timbres without the need of a filter. In fact it would have been cool if the digital oscillator had a dedicated character section that would have given it air, girth, drive etc. In addition to bit crushing and a full palette of digital filters. That would have made the digital osc able to work as a self contained layer, perfect for creating transients for both synth and percussive sounds, letting the analog oscillators perform as the sustained portion of the sound..

The Tempest had this routing of its digital oscillators option or similar, and it was perfect for creating more options in creating sounds I recall.

But then again, you could amways wish for more and more complicating matters further. I guess I should be happy if they just decided to implement a preset stored user waveTABLE... Not waveFORMS... Just the ability to select 16 waveFORMS to put in a waveTABLE stored with the preset.

The PRO3 allready have 512 waveFORMS in memory to choose from, and they could add more later... Would be totally device transparent... No need for dumping of either waveTABLES or waveFORMS, and presets would transfer seamlessly between different PRO3s.

I really hope that Sequential would consider that approach. Actually this is exactly what they did in both Prophet 12 and PRO2... The wavetables there could be chosen for the three slots they have... In PRO3 it is just 16 slots to choose instead if they made this.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 10:19:48 AM by Razmo »
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2020, 11:20:19 AM »

Anyway... If the digital oscillator is allready digital, and the whole signal path up to the matrix/fx is converted to digital, it would have been cool if the digital osc had a digital VCA, and then given a routing option to bypass the analog mixer, vcf and vca, and get mixed straight into the digital conversion at the matrix/fx... Simply to route the digital vco completely around the analog part.

Why? Because wavetables let you create simulated filters and can change timbres without the need of a filter. In fact it would have been cool if the digital oscillator had a dedicated character section that would have given it air, girth, drive etc. In addition to bit crushing and a full palette of digital filters. That would have made the digital osc able to work as a self contained layer, perfect for creating transients for both synth and percussive sounds, letting the analog oscillators perform as the sustained portion of the sound..

Allowing for parallel/series would have allowed for at least the first half of that. That would have allowed for example sending the VCOs to filter A and the waves to filter B and leaving it wide open for minimal coloring. I do something similar to what you're talking about a lot with my MatrixBrute--route VCO 1 to filter A controlled by an EG and route VCO 2 to filter B with no cutoff, just modulating the wavefolder to create dynamic harmonics. It makes it almost bitimbral. Oh well, I'm sure there's plenty of sounds to be had as it is!

But apparently there were already requests at NAMM for user wavetables. I guess we'll see if that means the ability to load user waves or just re-arrange the waves into preferred tables.

And Pym mentioned on GearSlutz that they've at least talked about linear FM for the 3.  :)

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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2020, 02:09:56 PM »

Anyway... If the digital oscillator is allready digital, and the whole signal path up to the matrix/fx is converted to digital, it would have been cool if the digital osc had a digital VCA, and then given a routing option to bypass the analog mixer, vcf and vca, and get mixed straight into the digital conversion at the matrix/fx... Simply to route the digital vco completely around the analog part.

Why? Because wavetables let you create simulated filters and can change timbres without the need of a filter. In fact it would have been cool if the digital oscillator had a dedicated character section that would have given it air, girth, drive etc. In addition to bit crushing and a full palette of digital filters. That would have made the digital osc able to work as a self contained layer, perfect for creating transients for both synth and percussive sounds, letting the analog oscillators perform as the sustained portion of the sound..

Allowing for parallel/series would have allowed for at least the first half of that. That would have allowed for example sending the VCOs to filter A and the waves to filter B and leaving it wide open for minimal coloring. I do something similar to what you're talking about a lot with my MatrixBrute--route VCO 1 to filter A controlled by an EG and route VCO 2 to filter B with no cutoff, just modulating the wavefolder to create dynamic harmonics. It makes it almost bitimbral. Oh well, I'm sure there's plenty of sounds to be had as it is!

But apparently there were already requests at NAMM for user wavetables. I guess we'll see if that means the ability to load user waves or just re-arrange the waves into preferred tables.

And Pym mentioned on GearSlutz that they've at least talked about linear FM for the 3.  :)

In any case, I do not expect anything else from Sequential, than to fix eventual bugs... They usually put in one or two big features in future OSes, but it is something I would never expect... I learned several times, that you buy a Sequential product for what it is when you buy it... Otherwise you just end up disappointed one way or the other.

So the PRO3 as is, is fine with me... The rest is just wishful thinking... I just pray that they fix all bugs reported before they stop support. To me bug fixing is more important than feature additions.
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2020, 04:22:08 PM »

In any case, I do not expect anything else from Sequential, than to fix eventual bugs... They usually put in one or two big features in future OSes, but it is something I would never expect... I learned several times, that you buy a Sequential product for what it is when you buy it... Otherwise you just end up disappointed one way or the other.

So the PRO3 as is, is fine with me... The rest is just wishful thinking... I just pray that they fix all bugs reported before they stop support. To me bug fixing is more important than feature additions.
Yeah like I said—plenty to explore as it is. I remember a lot of people were pissed because the Tempest never got user samples even though it was never promised as a feature. Like you say it doesn’t make sense to buy on projected features. Doesn’t mean we can’t ask for things that make sense though!

Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2020, 05:01:01 PM »

And Pym mentioned on GearSlutz that they've at least talked about linear FM for the 3.  :)

Cool! That would be sweet.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 05:02:34 PM by Quatschmacher »

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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2020, 06:13:45 PM »

In any case, I do not expect anything else from Sequential, than to fix eventual bugs... They usually put in one or two big features in future OSes, but it is something I would never expect... I learned several times, that you buy a Sequential product for what it is when you buy it... Otherwise you just end up disappointed one way or the other.

So the PRO3 as is, is fine with me... The rest is just wishful thinking... I just pray that they fix all bugs reported before they stop support. To me bug fixing is more important than feature additions.
Yeah like I said—plenty to explore as it is. I remember a lot of people were pissed because the Tempest never got user samples even though it was never promised as a feature. Like you say it doesn’t make sense to buy on projected features. Doesn’t mean we can’t ask for things that make sense though!

The Tempest samples WAS promised if you ask me, I saw the forum comments written about it by staff members, even if it has been denied or attempted skewed...

They wanted the user samples, they even hired someone to try and make it work, it just showed out to be impossible...

But this has been debated to death, lets let it rest, but Tempest is a good example of what I mean, the Evolver MIDI bugs too, not to mention the REV2 lingering problem with ringmodulated output... I am sure other products still await bug fixes too...

One thing I find a bit funny though, is why every device forum has a feature wish list, when rarely any of it is ever implemented... They serve more like wishful thinking threads, that serve as an idea board for future products. I stopped writing in them because I know nothing of it will ever see the light of day.

Thus... I take what I see/hear when I buy Sequential, and then cross my fingers, that any bugs reported and confirmed gets fixed with time.
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2020, 06:22:35 PM »

And Pym mentioned on GearSlutz that they've at least talked about linear FM for the 3.  :)

Cool! That would be sweet.

Yeah... Certainly cool to get more playable FM tones out of it, but how is this going to actually work?

FM require at least two precision digital oscillators to create even the simplest 2 operator tones... It has only got one... I wonder if it is  enough if only one oscillator is digital to achieve the stable pitch needed.

Another thing is, that most FM relies on two sine oscillators... One would in this case have to be a triangle as none of the analog oscillators has sine as a waveform... Maybe a self resonating filter might create the sine... It just seems curcumstancial unless they expand the digital oscillator to have a hidden modulator oscillator... Which would be cool by the way, for loads of other crossmod applications.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 06:24:15 PM by Razmo »
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2020, 06:44:50 PM »

And Pym mentioned on GearSlutz that they've at least talked about linear FM for the 3.  :)

Cool! That would be sweet.

Yeah... Certainly cool to get more playable FM tones out of it, but how is this going to actually work?

FM require at least two precision digital oscillators to create even the simplest 2 operator tones... It has only got one... I wonder if it is  enough if only one oscillator is digital to achieve the stable pitch needed.

Another thing is, that most FM relies on two sine oscillators... One would in this case have to be a triangle as none of the analog oscillators has sine as a waveform... Maybe a self resonating filter might create the sine... It just seems curcumstancial unless they expand the digital oscillator to have a hidden modulator oscillator... Which would be cool by the way, for loads of other crossmod applications.
I'm guessing they would handle it in the mod matrix as a digitally converted VCO signal, similar to how the linear FM works in the Moog Voyager and Sub 37.

As for the reliable oscillators and sines, you can get some great FM tones out of analog VCOs and DCOs. They don't have that sheen of digital FM but that's why there's digital FM. Even the Rev2's triangle can provide some great FM bells, vocal tones, etc. and it uses exponential FM. Sometimes a triangle works even better, especially as a modulator for transients. But of course the digital osc on the Pro 3 has a sine so it's there if needed.

Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2020, 06:46:47 PM »
Some nice osc to filter FM on the Rev2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpTX-aZvdE&t=275s

Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2020, 05:45:25 AM »
They could always simply have Fixed FM wavetables with the ability to alter them via the shape parameter...much like the Roland System 8.
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Re: Sounds only demo
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2020, 06:47:25 AM »
They could always simply have Fixed FM wavetables with the ability to alter them via the shape parameter...much like the Roland System 8.

Sure, but real FM would give more realtime control since more than a simple shape parameter can be controlled... Unless 2op FM of course...then it would not make that big a difference... And wavetable synthesis is easier to understand and program than FM synthesis.

Anyway... Personally I can live without the linear FM... The Quantum will soon sport 6op FM synthesis so I am covered... Still... Would be nice if PRO3 had the abillity to fire off a little bit of linear FM tones... Cool for bell sounds.and metallic timbres. Cool for creating metallic and clangorous transients to layer with the analog oscillators  :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 06:49:49 AM by Razmo »
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