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What is unique about Analog Synths ?

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #120 on: June 23, 2016, 09:12:34 PM »
It's certainly not what I want, SpaceVoice.  My complaint is that there are too few analog poly synths from which to choose.  I would like to see more instruments approximately the size of the Prophet '08 appear - a little bigger and a little smaller.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 09:14:20 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #121 on: June 23, 2016, 09:33:41 PM »
Anyhow from the comments I must say that if I represented a musical instrument company I would be very reluctant to encourage the release of analog instruments.

Why exactly?

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #122 on: June 24, 2016, 12:07:42 PM »
Anyhow from the comments I must say that if I represented a musical instrument company I would be very reluctant to encourage the release of analog instruments. Hope that is what this forum was going for ...this attitude should help protect DSI/ Sequential...haha
So far I have not found  digital & VST based instruments  easy to use or to be that impressive dollar for dollar when compared to Analog, however I see that others have had great success ...congratulations.

Microprocessor-controlled analogue ANYTHING just works. Charge a fair price for it, keep the retail sales portion of the product lifecycle sufficiently short, and you're set. DCO-based analogue synths from the 80s are cheap, and can be extended well past their intended lifespan*.

A digital instrument, on the other hand, is quite rightly perceived as a tabula rasa that can change shape based on the intentions of the person who controls the software / bootloader, rather than those of the end user. This is great for software guys (I am one of those), but bad for hardware manufacturers that may stop caring after a few years.

* - Right now, one can buy (with a bit of diligence) a used Roland JX-3P in keyboard form for less money than its mini-module, analogue-modeled Boutique Series counterpart - and, with a bit of extra effort, add features via a microprocessor replacement that even the more recent JX-03 lacks - not to speak of the sound quality itself.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 12:15:12 PM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #123 on: June 24, 2016, 03:24:44 PM »
Anyhow from the comments I must say that if I represented a musical instrument company I would be very reluctant to encourage the release of analog instruments.

Why exactly?

I think SpaceVoice meant that the comments in this thread have been so negative that an analog synth designer would get only discouragement from them.  I would agree with him.  But the day to day fact here is that, out of our 1,100+ forum members, probably ten or twelve of us do most of the posting; the vast majority only reads the forum.  So, I don't think we're necessarily representative of the customers that buy analog synthesizers and, therefore, provide the demand.
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #124 on: June 24, 2016, 03:27:16 PM »
Anyhow from the comments I must say that if I represented a musical instrument company I would be very reluctant to encourage the release of analog instruments.

Why exactly?

I think SpaceVoice meant that the comments in this thread have been so negative that an analog synth designer would get only discouragement from them.  I would agree with him.  But the day to day fact here is that, out of our 1,100+ forum members, probably ten or twelve of us do most of the posting; the vast majority only reads the forum.  So, I don't think we're necessarily representative of the customers that buy analog synthesizers and, therefore, provide the demand.

Hm, I didn't really read this thread as an argument against all things analog.

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #125 on: June 24, 2016, 03:35:34 PM »
There's a predictable knee-jerk reaction to the very question, especially when it's posed in favor of analog.  It makes for a quickly short-circuited discussion.  Again, I'd have to agree with SpaceVoice.
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #126 on: June 24, 2016, 03:44:21 PM »
There's a predictable knee-jerk reaction to the very question, especially when it's posed in favor of analog.  It makes for a quickly short-circuited discussion.  Again, I'd have to agree with SpaceVoice.

Yeah, that's true. But thankfully we know that they're all wrong.  ;)

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #127 on: June 24, 2016, 03:46:32 PM »
Yes, of course we do!  Uh oh, here they come....
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 04:24:57 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #128 on: June 24, 2016, 03:51:20 PM »
Yes, of course we do!  Uh oh, here they come....

Hence, I propose the title of this thread to be changed into "Why thou shall not question the undeniable fact that analog sounds better and the analog voice is the very foundation of the best of all possible worlds."  ;D

To all disbelievers shall be said: I will graciously accept all of your iPads as indulgence payments to help laying your path out of the digital purgatory your souls would otherwise be lost to.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 04:10:08 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #129 on: June 24, 2016, 04:25:49 PM »
See? Even you get punchy on the topic. 

I think there should be a corner of the forum where only analog enthusiasts are allowed in.  There we could celebrate our love for old school synthesis in peace, and no one could lecture us about how ridiculous is our opinion, or throw sticks and stones at us for being different.  Happy, happy, happy.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 04:33:13 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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chysn

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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #130 on: June 24, 2016, 05:03:42 PM »
There we could celebrate our love for old school synthesis in peace, and no one could lecture us about how ridiculous is our opinion, or throw sticks and stones at us for being different.  Happy, happy, happy.

You're pretty much describing Muff Wiggler. It's people who are deep, deep, deep into analog synthesis, but are also as nonjudgmental and helpful a community as you could expect to find on the internet. It's mostly about modular synths, but certainly not exclusively. I'm a n00b, so I still just lurk, but it's definitely my second-favorite forum.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #131 on: June 24, 2016, 05:17:52 PM »
Yeah, I used to go there in the days when the old DSI/Prophet forum would go down.  I liked it quite a bit.  It was a good place for an analog organist to relax.
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #132 on: August 26, 2016, 08:21:15 PM »
This is just an observation.  Analog oscillators have a beating quality that sounds distinctive and natural.  Two sawtooths played simultaneously parallel the effect of, for example, two trombones or oboes played simultaneously. The beating that exists sounds smooth, organic, and very musical.  It creates a widening and deepening of the timbre that is already present when only one instrument sounds.  What I hear from two digital oscillators is very different.  The beating then sounds more like an excessively electronic swirling, almost like a phaser, and quite unnatural.  To my ears, it's both annoying and distracting.  I've noticed this on many instruments, including the Nord Leads and the Prophet 12.  Where this is the case, there's no way I could consider the two interchangeable.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 09:07:39 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #133 on: August 27, 2016, 07:49:56 PM »
I don't find this to be the case with the Evolver.  The digital sawtooths do slightly differ in timbre from the analog, but the same phasing I described above is not present.  They beat just like the analog sawtooths and sound quite good.
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #134 on: August 28, 2016, 05:19:26 PM »
I'll have to pay attention to that. I don't have any digital oscillators in the house right now, but now that I have to tune oscillators by hand just about every time I play, I'm a lot more aware of beating than I used to be when I mostly had DCOs.

The phasing that you're talking about may be the result of programmed slop using random frequency fluctuation over time. This behavior probably isn't inherent to digital oscillators. That is, it can probably be corrected pretty easily.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #135 on: August 28, 2016, 06:58:21 PM »
It occurs with two stable oscillators - not increasing and decreasing beating rates, but perfectly steady.  I should probably poke around to find some examples.
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Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #136 on: October 19, 2016, 07:24:58 PM »
Anyhow from the comments I must say that if I represented a musical instrument company I would be very reluctant to encourage the release of analog instruments.

Why exactly?

I think SpaceVoice meant that the comments in this thread have been so negative that an analog synth designer would get only discouragement from them.  I would agree with him.  But the day to day fact here is that, out of our 1,100+ forum members, probably ten or twelve of us do most of the posting; the vast majority only reads the forum.  So, I don't think we're necessarily representative of the customers that buy analog synthesizers and, therefore, provide the demand.
Thanks SS that is it exactly.
Prophet-6, Korg M3,Petros Classical Guitar, Gibson ES 339, Blackstar HT20,Pigtronix PK, Cry Baby, Aqua Puss. Roland VS840GX.

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #137 on: October 19, 2016, 07:32:55 PM »
Well I will avoid the question of what makes Digital Synths unique?,& say that until now another digital or hybrid offering by DSI/Sequential would be welcome ...now I really wont care one way or another. 
Prophet-6, Korg M3,Petros Classical Guitar, Gibson ES 339, Blackstar HT20,Pigtronix PK, Cry Baby, Aqua Puss. Roland VS840GX.

Re: What is unique about Analog Synths ?
« Reply #138 on: October 19, 2016, 07:50:19 PM »
We just had a discussion about this today on another thread.  One of the DSI staffers said on this forum that they will not be producing a purely digital instrument.  So, that leaves the all-analog and the analog-digital hybrid instruments as possibilities. 

In light of the fact that they already have a large-scale hybrid instrument in the Prophet 12, I would like to see DSI produce a large-scale analog polyphonic synthesizer, something that surpasses the Prophet '08.  If I could dream just a bit: everything the P'08 offers, plus four VCOs instead of DCOs, onboard delay, a high pass resonant filter, a program keypad, long envelope times, and a higher-quality five-octave keyboard.  I realize this would be an expensive instrument, so that I'd actually be willing to compromise with DCOs in order to keep the price down.  However, it would need to be substantially different from the Prophet 12 in order to be justifiable, and having VCOs would achieve this.  Either instrument would be my dream music machine.   
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 08:12:42 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: What Makes Analog Better
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2017, 10:33:17 AM »
Which one was the OB-8 and which one was the Diva? I have no damn clue. I totally can't tell by listening to WAV files. But get behind the same keyboard with them for five minutes each, and I'd expect any of us would have a pretty good shot.

I recently added a Diva to my VST library and searched the forum for it. This post came up. I must say, a Diva in "divine" mode on a last generation iMac with a decent sound card and speakers, sounds pretty incredible.

I now more and more work in 2 modes: quick jotting down of musical ideas in a DAW with a very limited set of favorite VST presets, and losing yourself in sound design on my analogue P6 and Minimoog. Both are good.